What’s the thoughts on the .223 on all plains game with a match bullet trend ?

[375Ruger416]

No, just no.

Match the cartridge to the game.

I’m sure a 223 77 gr in the vitals would kill large plains game, but what about less than ideal angles? Bullet blowup if it strikes a rib or the shoulder and doesn’t penetrate to the vitals? Need for a followup shot at a quartering animal?

On the other hand, I do think reasonable hunting calibers in the medium bore range are more similar than we appreciate. Since they all kill by tissue destruction and blood loss, it takes a large change to result in a significant change in on game performance. Is a 130 gr 6.5 monometal really that much worse than a 165 gr 30 cal? I’m skeptical. However, a 143 gr lead core vs a 220 gr? That’s enough of a difference to matter. And 6.5 130 gr monometal vs a 300 gr 375? That is suitable for different classes of game imo.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

I’m truly baffled with these guys post on rockslide that , a .223 , 22cm , 22-250 ,ect
Shooting a 77gr match bullet , is more than adequate for hunting kudos, eland , gembuck , waterbuck, ect ( large PG ) , shooting a unbonded 22cal explosive bullet through the ribs , seems like a disaster to me , yet there are multiple people saying explosive small caliber is more effective then say a 7x57 with a bonded bullet.
What’s your opinion? I’m sure you can see I disagree

One response
“”
Put a 2-3 or 4" hole in the lungs of the toughest oryx, blue wildebeest, zebra or whatever with one of the little guys, and all the theories about the African animals being magically tougher that the rest of the world´s will fall to pieces.
Someone mentioned he had killed 10 oryx, and being that a great experience, let me say I have shot 20, this year, just to put things in perspective.
And no, you should not take a PH judgement on these things as the word of God, at least not any PH´s, since many of them are simply not interested and pay no attention to these things at least at the level some of us do.
Just my 2 cents.””

Yeah. Right.
And then he killed a cape buffalo bull with a .22 Hornet.

 

[Inline6]

No, just no.

Match the cartridge to the game.

I’m sure a 223 77 gr in the vitals would kill large plains game, but what about less than ideal angles? Bullet blowup if it strikes a rib or the shoulder and doesn’t penetrate to the vitals? Need for a followup shot at a quartering animal?

On the other hand, I do think reasonable hunting calibers in the medium bore range are more similar than we appreciate. Since they all kill by tissue destruction and blood loss, it takes a large change to result in a significant change in on game performance. Is a 130 gr 6.5 monometal really that much worse than a 165 gr 30 cal? I’m skeptical. However, a 143 gr lead core vs a 220 gr? That’s enough of a difference to matter. And 6.5 130 gr monometal vs a 300 gr 375? That is suitable for different classes of game imo.

I'm not saying one should. I'm only giving perspective. We killed 3 giraffe this past trip. My wife used a 375h&h with a mono 300gr bullet. My middle son used a 375Ruger with 300 DGX. My youngest used a 6.5CM with a 129SST.

375h&h 1 shot zipped through it, bull was down in about 2-3 minutes. (120-yards)

375Ruger took 4 shots and was down in 3-4 minutes. (90- yards)

6.5CM 1 shot, Bull was on the ground in 45 seconds. (127-yards)

All 3 were shot in the shoulder, so bullet placement were all close to the same area.

 

[Jeff505]

223s have there place, when we lose that perspective and believe that the cartridge has supernatural powers then the line between fact and fiction can be blurred. Actually I find humor in this thread as I do in many areas of life. Obviously this thread is meant for entertainment as is my reply.

 

[TERMINATOR]

What are you doing on Rockslide? That forum is a shithole. Ugh!

Any PH that lets a client hunt plains game with .223 should lose his license. I remember when they handed me an M16 at the range during basic training 1972. "Are you kidding me? Our guys in Vietnam are trying to kill people with these pea shooters?" Drill sergeant explained Pentagon logic: six Vietcong needed to take care of every wounded. That's seven Cong removed from combat. Someone should have told them wounded enemy is still capable of returning fire and killing our soldiers. Dead ones not so much.

Our guys in Vietnam had a love/hate relationship with the M16. The early models fouled and jammed horribly and were hated. They got some of that sorted out and learned to clean them more often then the real ADVANTAGE of the M16 became clear. Many of our guys would go on patrol with a magazine in the rifle and as many as 36 fully loaded magazines on their person in their combat vest. That is 1080 rounds on top of the 30 in the gun. When you are on patrol and get in a firefight, there is no such thing as having too much ammo.

They could carry that much ammo because the cartridges were physically smaller and relatively light compared to say a .308 cartridge (7.62x51) for the previous battle rifle the M14 or compared to the 7.62 x 39 that the NVA/Viet Cong carried for their AK47s and SKS rifles

No way you can carry around 1000 rounds of 7.62x39 or 7.62x51 for an extended patrol.

Also, the FMJ rounds from the 5.56x45 were so light and traveling so fast that when it hit a person in the body it would start tumbling and make a nasty wound channel through the body. It was actually way more deadly than a person would think.

All that said....you would have to be a moron to shoot plains game bigger than a duiker with a 22 centerfire of any kind using even the best bullets.

I would not even use my beloved .257 Wby on things the size of an Gemsbok/Wildebeest/Kudu even though with a great 120 grain bullet it would get the job done in most circumstances if you are selective with your shot angles.

A 6.5 with a great 140 grain bullet is about as small as I would go for anything bigger than a Impala and honestly I would rather have a .270 with a great 150 gr bullet or a 7mm Something with a 160 gr bullet.

In the end, I think a 30 caliber, preferably one of the mags (H&H, WSM, Win Mag or Wby Mag) is the ideal plains game gun. And I have settled on the .300 Wby because it can kill anything that doesn't want to kill me and I can shoot it well

 

[Neophyte]

Having used the .223/5.56 for work I’ve come to agree with the late Col. Cooper that it’s good for shooting poodles.

Game animals are not humans and the bone and muscle structure is vastly different. While the .223/5.56 might work well on bipedal targets I favor heavier/bigger cartridges for anything bigger than a coyote and I’m not all that impressed with the cartridge on bipedal targets either.

I used a 22-250, borrowed, in Australia on kangaroo. Would much rather have used a .308 Winchester. I only own three suitable hunting cartridges in my collection although I have the 5.56 I prefer to use my 45-70 on coyotes. I haven’t tried the 6.5 Creedmoor yet on game and I may not. I have a .338 Win Mag that works on anything I care to hunt in North America. I’m thinking of pairing the .375 Ruger with the 6.5 Creedmoor for a worldwide two gun battery.

The smaller one goes in cartridge the more critical shot placement and bullet selection becomes in my opinion.

 

[1911Fan]

Unless commies are considered plains game, I don't think I'd take a .223 on safari!