Obsession with tactical rifles & equipment

[mark-hunter]

In this exchange, I can say: devoted rifle target shooters who get to hunting, are by far the best field marksmen.
Those rifle target shooters can be anything: historic rifle shooters, f-class, rim fire three position, PRS.
Shooting they know, trigger time they have, when going to hunting they just need to adapt to field conditions, and work out on fast response, as they cannot loose much time aiming at elusive game species. Once they get this, they are very good.

I have seen "hunters" (without competition background), not knowing to zero the rifle, or not knowing to install the scope, zero knoledge on ballistic, terminal performance, choosing cheap bullets, etc, but this does not happen to those who have experience in competitions - as all of them know ballistic, know how to adjust the sights, and have at least basic gunsmithing skills.

 

[gbflyer]

I know a number of serious PRS shooters. I'd put up any of them against "hunters" that barely shoot a few hundred rounds a year, especially in long range marksmanship.

And no, you are not going to shoot smaller groups against a PRS guy with an optimized firearm and even factory match ammo at 200 yards with a hunting rifle. Next you will be comparing yourself in a "Smart car" against a Formula car driver saying your tires last longer and you do much better at parallel parking. Horses for the courses.

BTW, lefty version of this rifle in 6mm CM will be on its way to me in about 17 more weeks (minus the scope). And yes, in marine red. Factory accuracy guarantee with factory ammo is 3/8 MOA (3 shot group), wonder what that is for 200 yards? Unfortunately, I don't have thick enough hair for a man-bun.

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I really do not understand the contempt and animosity against guys that like different shooting sports using different calibers and gear.

I had my eyes opened 30 years ago in short range benchrest. I thought I knew something about shooting small groups. Later on I spent a little time with some other equipment that really doesn’t look like something you’d pack on a whitetail hunt either. An old friend spent 50 years thinking he knew about shooting, regaling with story’s about special operations in mainland China in the early 1960’s. We went to 600 yards and he couldn’t hit the 10” plate with ol’ Bess the trusty 300 Win Mag with the 2-8 Leupold. At least he tried.

 

[mark-hunter]

I remember first local long range match (with slack rules on equipment, it was open for everybody) 12 years ago in my area.
Competitors were either hunters, or target shooters without experience at long range.
(although 600 is actually medium range for standrad)
As a result, about 70% of them missed target with entire string of shots. Score, zero.

 

[Woodcarver]

I had my eyes opened 30 years ago in short range benchrest. I thought I knew something about shooting small groups. Later on I spent a little time with some other equipment that really doesn’t look like something you’d pack on a whitetail hunt either. An old friend spent 50 years thinking he knew about shooting, regaling with story’s about special operations in mainland China in the early 1960’s. We went to 600 yards and he couldn’t hit the 10” plate with ol’ Bess the trusty 300 Win Mag with the 2-8 Leupold. At least he tried.

Very few hunters spend any time shooting beyond a couple hundred yards, if they even practice out that far. Personally, I rarely shoot beyond 250-300. When I was preparing for a sheep hunt a few years ago, I spent the summer tuning me and the 300WM up to be able to consistently hit at 500. Ended up shooting my sheep at 120 yards, but I was prepared if it had needed to be farther. Shooting at distance is a skill, not a disease, lol. But hunting for me is about getting as close as possible. As long as the long range shooter has developed their skills to take an ethical shot, that's ok too.

 

[gbflyer]

Very few hunters spend any time shooting beyond a couple hundred yards, if they even practice out that far. Personally, I rarely shoot beyond 250-300. When I was preparing for a sheep hunt a few years ago, I spent the summer tuning me and the 300WM up to be able to consistently hit at 500. Ended up shooting my sheep at 120 yards, but I was prepared if it had needed to be farther. Shooting at distance is a skill, not a disease, lol. But hunting for me is about getting as close as possible. As long as the long range shooter has developed their skills to take an ethical shot, that's ok too.

We’re in the same camp I think.

I’ve never pulled the trigger on anything with a heartbeat past 400 yards and that was a broadside, feeding cow elk using a 12# .30 magnum sporting a…gulp…tactical FFP scope

 

[C.W. Richter]

'Wend aoudad hunting with a younger guy down in TX who was into PRS (his...hmm a rather heavy, clumsy-for-typ-hunting MRT, MRP? in 6.5 RSAUM. To check the sight-ins, he let me shoot his (at the whitest, round caliche "target") across a river gorge at 850 yds. 'Nailed it! Then whipped out my trusty Bansner's Ultimate Ovis in 264 WSM (comparable to the aforementioned round,) and did precisely the same (with a 6 lb mtn gun sporting a Harris ultralight bipod. 'Use more traditional hunting bullets <450 yds, but break out the Bergers for such shots!) Handloading, knowing your gun, and setting it up properly are key elements. PRS is not my cup of tea, but whatever floats your boat (it was interesting to see him hunting with it that day, and it was certainly one tool for that job.) We got fogged out at prime sheep time, almost got run over by a small one, and thus the shooting match (I eventually had to buy him lunch in Camp Wood, as his best-out-of-3 scam) began.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

I no longer need or desire tactical rifles and equipment, but I am very happy to see the tactical craze causing an explosion in shooting sports. Now let's get them shooters to start hunting.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Every kid my age age grew up playing “Call of Duty” they then want the guns they used in the game. Most didn’t grow up hunting birds in the backyard with a daisy like I did. And most weren’t given a gun for Christmas like I got when I was 10.
When they are old enough to have a big a gun, they have money to do so (if they work) and they want the M4 carbine from “Modern warfare” not the Winchester 94.
I think this is good, provided that they receive proper gun safety training.
Just remember the second amendment is not at all about hunting.

@wyatt Smith
Thank you young Mr Smith for reminding me how things have changed since I was young
Hell when I was a teenager video games had not yet been invented, dang we didn't even have a TV until the late 60s. I'm sure a lot of us old fella are in the same boat.
When I started hunting my father couldn't see why I wanted a 303. The old 303 was a fine buffalo and crocodile as well as man stopper and people didn't need that much power for hunting Australian game. His idea was a 22lr and a shot gun, if you wanted more power for game out to 150 yards a 22 Hornet was more than enough.
How times have changed. We (us older farts) should be embracing the younger generation not condemning them. Yes we could teach them a thing or two but we need to remember they were bought up in a different time than us and things change.
Thank you for reminding me of these things mate. As long as the younger generation is happy with their choice so be it. One day the young will be like us and condemning these new laser rifles of the future, who knows.
Bob

 

[fourfive8]

For anyone interested, Annie Oakley, An American Experience PBS DVD about 1hr, is well worth the watch. Puts everythng in perspective about the legend. I think Edison invited her to do some different studio shooting demonstrations (like the clip here) to promote his new movie camera.

If you don't wish to purchase the DVD, I think you can watch it via this link, at least until it expires. IMO, Annie Oakley should be considered a national treasure

American Experience | Annie Oakley | Season 18 | Episode 12 | PBS

Annie Oakley won fame and fortune as the little lady who never missed a shot.

www.pbs.org

 

[rdog]

As the person that started this discussion let me say i do not have a problem with shooters who uses their tactical long range rifle at the range, just do not dress like RAMBO & show off to the media if they turn up at the range, as they are only using you for their own agenda. I was a member of the Australian army rifle team in the 1960s -1970s& still shoot long range, 700 meters with a Remington 700 M40 copy's in 7mm WSM & 6.5 CM i would love to shoot PRS but at 75 my body wont do it, my other observation is some of the younger long range shooters who are using a 6.5 CM or 6 mm CM & think
if they can get a hit at 700 to 1000 meters with a 6.5 147 grain Sierra match king or a 6mm 107 grain it has enough energy to kill game at that distance, & look at you in disbelieve when you suggest the really need a 300 win mag & a 190 grain bullet, or some
thing bigger to have enough power at that distance to get the job done. I am a firm believer that about 350 meters is a very long range shot at any game animal.

 

[Tanks]

... i would love to shoot PRS but at 75 my body wont do it,...

You could always shoot F-class if body is giving out.

 

[rdog]

You could always shoot F-class if body is giving out.

Yes i do shoot F class with a 308 win.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I know a number of serious PRS shooters. I'd put up any of them against "hunters" that barely shoot a few hundred rounds a year, especially in long range marksmanship.

And no, you are not going to shoot smaller groups against a PRS guy with an optimized firearm and even factory match ammo at 200 yards with a hunting rifle. Next you will be comparing yourself in a "Smart car" against a Formula car driver saying your tires last longer and you do much better at parallel parking. Horses for the courses.

BTW, lefty version of this rifle in 6mm CM will be on its way to me in about 17 more weeks (minus the scope). And yes, in marine red. Factory accuracy guarantee with factory ammo is 3/8 MOA (3 shot group), wonder what that is for 200 yards? Unfortunately, I don't have thick enough hair for a man-bun.

View attachment 451100

I really do not understand the contempt and animosity against guys that like different shooting sports using different calibers and gear.

@Tanks
We're not talking serious PRS shooters here We're talking people that buy this type of gear that have limited knowledge of the principles of long range shooting.
That is a discipline that take a lot of time practice and money to achieve the standards required.
Here we are talking about the average person.
I have No problem what a person uses at the range but do have issues about people using the wrong cartridge at the wrong distance on game.
Before we lost our use of semi autos in Australia one of my favorites was a but ugly 30-06 Johnson semi auto. I even favoured it over the Garand because of its uniqueness. Cost me 350 bucks in the day. I still love the FN FAL Australian version L1A1 known by us as the sler aka SLR.
Bob

 

[Challer]

We have a morning news program in Australia hosted by a arrogant egg headed A-hole more left wing than i can stand,
pushing for more gun control & the climate change agenda at every opportunity & a large
majority of people especially women think he is wonderful. We have had a lot of pro climate change rallies & anti VAXes demonstrations, any group that has any objections to his point of view are labeled as dangerous right extremest groups. the left can do no wrong & are underhandedly supported by the the media.

You need to organize your truckers

 

[Challer]

Where does the Blaser R8 fit in this conversation.

As I say, we can’t worry about the childhood traumas of the R8 haters

 

[Tanks]

@Tanks
...
I have No problem what a person uses at the range but do have issues about people using the wrong cartridge at the wrong distance on game.
...

Well, you should be more tolerant of people. We have many on this forum that promote the use of a .375 H&H on DG, and it does work with the "right placement". Just like a 6.5CM would work on Eland with the "right placement".

 

[CD24]

I can see both sides. I agree with the OP's opinion about the velcro ninjas that were raised by call of duty and movies about seal team six but were too chicken to sign on the dotted line. It annoys me, too. On the other hand, "shall not be infringed" is pretty clear to me. I have been trained on the M-16 for over a decade and didn't own one until the riots started in 2020. When they did, however, I pushed my beloved hunting guns aside and ordered a franklin armory pistol with a disgusting 60 round drum. I don't want to hurt anyone else for as long as I live but when people start going crazy I'm not running for my large caliber bolt gun or single shot. We train at the range for that long range sheep hunt. We train for that up close buffalo. After 2020 I can see why someone would want to train for urban chaos. I don't like it, but I can see it.

Plus it's hilarious when their gear is upside down or inside out.

 

[John Wasmuth]

Lord forgive that anyone show up at the range wearing utilities instead of dressing like a wanna be Teddy Roosevelt on Safari…….. Mustache and all….

 

[VertigoBE]

Well, you should be more tolerant of people. We have many on this forum that promote the use of a .375 H&H on DG, and it does work with the "right placement". Just like a 6.5CM would work on Eland with the "right placement".

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Well, you should be more tolerant of people. We have many on this forum that promote the use of a .375 H&H on DG, and it does work with the "right placement". Just like a 6.5CM would work on Eland with the "right placement".

@Tanks
I'm pretty tolerant most of the time but when you have people telling you they hunt pigs,goats and deer to 700 plus yards with a Creedmoor I do wonder about their cartridge choice. As @rdog said if they stepped up to something like one of the 300 mags it would be different. They would have enough power for the job.