Obsession with tactical rifles & equipment

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Lord forgive that anyone show up at the range wearing utilities instead of dressing like a wanna be Teddy Roosevelt on Safari…….. Mustache and all….

@John Wasmuth
I met an old bloke at a trap range in QLD one day dressed in 3/4 lenght Tweed pants, Tweed jacket and flat cap. Also long socks walking shoes and a cane. He cracked me right up when he said I can't shoot for shit nowdays but at least I look the part.
This gent would have been 80 in the shade ,very knowledgeable and a pleasure to talk to.
Bob

 

[NE 7x57]

It's pointless worrying about what people are wearing to the range. As long as they are exercising safe firearms handling that's about the best you can hope for.

For the record I think it's a huge positive that so many of the younger generation has bought into firearms ownership regardless of what they are buying and shooting.

 

[Tanks]

@Tanks
I'm pretty tolerant most of the time but when you have people telling you they hunt pigs,goats and deer to 700 plus yards with a Creedmoor I do wonder about their cartridge choice. As @rdog said if they stepped up to something like one of the 300 mags it would be different. They would have enough power for the job.

My comment was said "tongue in cheek". However, I did some research on Hornady's ELD-X bullet ammo "Precision Hunter". They recommend it for game up to 1,500 lbs at extended range due to their technology. Here is a blurb, and link. Now, 500 is not 700, but it seems reasonable at 500. Personally, I'd use my .300 RUM at that range but each to his own.

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/6-5-creedmoor-143-gr-eld-x-precision-hunter#!/

 

[rdog]

My comment was said "tongue in cheek". However, I did some research on Hornady's ELD-X bullet ammo "Precision Hunter". They recommend it for game up to 1,500 lbs at extended range due to their technology. Here is a blurb, and link. Now, 500 is not 700, but it seems reasonable at 500. Personally, I'd use my .300 RUM at that range but each to his own.

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/6-5-creedmoor-143-gr-eld-x-precision-hunter#!/

View attachment 451424

If that is the case a 7mm 175 grain or 30 cal 212 grain bullet of the same construction would give a greater margin for error, in the real world.

 

[shootist~]

If that is the case a 7mm 175 grain or 30 cal 212 grain bullet of the same construction would give a greater margin for error, in the real world.

Possibly, depending on the skill and confidence levels of the shooter. But a well placed hit with the 143 grain ELDX still beats a poor hit with a 175 or 212 grain bullet. Likely from something with about twice the recoil.

I'm talking about Gemsbok sized animals. The various 6.5s have proven to be a reasonable choice on New Mexico Oryx, at least out to 400 yds or so. Including the 6.5 CM and the 143 ELDX, as used on a NM Oryx by a serious PRS shooter I know. He's uses bigger calibers as well.

 

[Longwalker]

This is an inexact translation from the original German, a poem that encapsulates the essence of what I admire about good hunting, and what I despise about people who confuse hunting with warfare....

This Is 
The Hunters Badge Of Glory 

That He Protect 
And Tend His Quarry 


And Hunt With Honor 
As Is Due
And Through The Beast 
To God Be True
Weapons Of War 
Are By Hatred Run 

Yet Love For Game 
Fires Our Gun
Therefore Ponder 
Your Daily Bread
Did Your Game 
Not Suffer Dread ? 


Guard Game From Man 
And Beast Alike
Make Brief It's Death 

Make Sure Your Strike


Be Outside Rough 
Yet Mild Inside 

And The Badge Of Glory 
Pure Abide!

 

[revturbo9967]

If that is the case a 7mm 175 grain or 30 cal 212 grain bullet of the same construction would give a greater margin for error, in the real world.

I shot a pronghorn at 340 yards this past October with the .284 175 grain eldx. Passed through both shoulders and made about a thumb sized home on the exit. I watched it drop in the scope.

 

[rdog]

In a life time of hunting i have learnt that a bigger dia heaver bullet results in quicker more humane kills.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

In a life time of hunting i have learnt that a bigger dia heaver bullet results in quicker more humane kills.

@rdog
I agree to a certain extent with that idea on bigger game but on game up to the size of a big fallow I have found that the fast 25 gives more spectacular and humane kills than the bigger calibers. The fast 25s used within their parameters give the most spectacular kills of any in my books.
Just my thoughts tho.

 

[Inline6]

3-Gun in CA is a no go for those not grandfathered in with those scary black guns. If I were to start a new shooting sport it would be PRS.

The PRS is not what it used to be, unfortunately. I was shooting the matches before PRS was a thing. I would not say don't do it it just become something that it wasn't meant to be.

 

[Ray B]

Since we're talking about 25s; several years back I shot a spike Whitetail deer with a 257 Ackley Improved, I'd have to check the records to see the bullet- but I recall the visual of the deer going down. It was standing broadside in a plowed field, bullet hit middle of the chest. the chest/body went down so fast that the neck/head followed, then smacked down causing a small dust cloud. However such results weren't exclusive to the 257, I recall another deer, a large Whitetail doe, part of a damage control hunt. It was hit with a Winchester 270 130 gr OPE. It went down as if it was tipped over and it's feet sticking up in the air.

So while bigger bullets may cause bigger effects, a well placed bullet of a design that causes immediate damage to the deer's life support system will certainly bring about the desired result.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

I have shoot .22 LR PRS informal matches with a Winchester M52C. I mounted a Leupold Mk 4 scope on it using a cantilever mount from Midwest Gun Works. Not pretty but it is accurate.

Anyway, what fun it is trying to hit target as small as 2" from 50 to 200 yards!
When I stood up for offhand shots (not in their rules...) I heard others snickering "Show off".

Next time I am going to take my sticks and ask to use them but not for score.

 

[revturbo9967]

To add on the ELD-X, I'm not so sure I would use it on anything larger then a mule deer without further testing. I know they can come apart too. I going to give some Barnes LRX 175 and 190 gr a go in my 300 win for the next elk trip.

 

[sgt_zim]

I think the shooters in the USA understand this. (for the most part)

We are fortunate in that we have the 2nd amendment to our USA Constitution that gives USA citizens the right to keep and bear firearms.

We also (for the most part) understand that our right to have firearms has nothing to do with having guns for sporting purposes, but has all to do with fighting tyranny and foreign invaders.

Minor correction. The constitution doesn't "give" us any rights, it merely recognizes we have rights and that government doesn't have lawful authority to infringe on them.

Take, for example, the 9th amendment.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

It doesn't "give" anything, merely asserts that we have lots and lots of rights which weren't enumerated and recognized in the preceding 8 amendments.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Minor correction. The constitution doesn't "give" us any rights, it merely recognizes we have rights and that government doesn't have lawful authority to infringe on them.

Take, for example, the 9th amendment.


It doesn't "give" anything, merely asserts that we have lots and lots of rights which weren't enumerated and recognized in the preceding 8 amendments.

@sgt zim
Sounds a bit like the Australian referendum in 1967.
It gave Aboriginal people the right to be considered citizens of Australia instead of being under the flora and fauna act. Yes Aboriginal people were classified as flora and fauna prior to 67.
Even tho we were regarded a citizens after 67 we still don't have the right to vote legally. We have to apply to the govt for that privilege.
The majority of Aboriginal people just vote anyway.
The government's of the world are great at interpreting their laws to suit themselves.

 

[Ray B]

I shoot a Winchester M52C. I stood up for offhand shots I heard others snickering "Show off".

When I was in recruit training and at the range for qualification, one of our drill instructors got an M14 and started shooting at the 500 yards line. He was shooting off hand, getting bullseyes and NO ONE was snickering.

 

[sgt_zim]

@sgt zim
Sounds a bit like the Australian referendum in 1967.
It gave Aboriginal people the right to be considered citizens of Australia instead of being under the flora and fauna act. Yes Aboriginal people were classified as flora and fauna prior to 67.
Even tho we were regarded a citizens after 67 we still don't have the right to vote legally. We have to apply to the govt for that privilege.
The majority of Aboriginal people just vote anyway.
The government's of the world are great at interpreting their laws to suit themselves.

That's all the difference in the world between rights and privileges.

 

[shootist~]

When I was in recruit training and at the range for qualification, one of our drill instructors got an M14 and started shooting at the 500 yards line. He was shooting off hand, getting bullseyes and NO ONE was snickering.

Reminds me of "Dan", one of our regular 3-Gun shooters from the late 1990's who went from the Air Force at that time, to join the SEALs. West Coast guys.

Saw him at our club a number of years ago while I was into my FAL (L1A1 to Bob) mode.
He had no problems banging our 18" steel at 500 Meters with the Irons on my FAL. Standing unsupported, first shot included.

 

[Shako Badhan]

I own both classic rifles and shotguns as well as a few of the modern type weapons. Over time I’m finding I have a lot less of the modern AR systems and more of the classic stuff. Part of it a guess is having to use the new stuff for my job takes the fun out of them a bit.

As for the general popularity tactical type rifle arms I think it’s driven by media in general, from video games and movies to social media. A lot of people rightly want effective self defense weapons and that’s great. There are also a lot of people who you see at the range with more kit on then is worn in the military. They are basically LARPing.

For a lot of the US at least people sadly have little to no connection to hunting or nature in general. It’s easier to get interested in rifles and pistols you see on tv everyday. The firearms industry knows this and is happy to fill the demand.

 

[Hillbilly Marine]

Well here is my 2 cents worth. I am of the mind that real rifles are blued steel and wood. Those black plastic stainless steel tacticool toys are just to plain ugly for my tastess. However I will be the first to admit that an AR is a great tool.

I know for a fact that I can hit a 10 inch circle at 500 yards all day long with a stock M16A1 or A2. I did that for twenty years in the Corps (20 times Rifle Expert, 16 times Pistol Expert). That said I never warmed up to the so-called "platform" and really have no desire to have another version of Stoners toy. Now the FAL or HK G3 varients are different for one reason or another as I have over the years aquired several.

I have used them to take a deer but in reality those are toys and really little more than that. I have real rifles that I use for hunting (CZ 550, Ruger M77, Weatherby MK5, etc.) and I would rather rely upon my Winchester 1873 than a short barreled M4 for ergonomics.

So, while I think that these tacticool guys with their latest chassis rifle firing 6.5 ManBun at a target so far away I would call artillery on is silly, I would be the last on to disparage their joy. The same with those guys you see with the high speed low drag short barreled M4 that weighs just short of a Volvo firing a bejillion rounds from a drum magazine just slightly smaller than a Lewis Gun. I just watch them enjoy blowing a lot of lead downrange and hope they are enjoying themselves.

The whole point is that the shooting fraternity is one hell of a big pool. Personally I can't hit the ground with a shotgun but half the time but that doesn't make against those who actually hit birds and clays. There are those who won't shoot a .375 or a .416 but love their black rifles. We should embrace those guys and gals who just want to shoot.whatever.