Hunting SA or "Wild" Africa - Which is Better

[steve white]

I agree if money were no object.

And yet Kilombero has been almost totally poached/settled, I hear...sad

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

the kafue doesn't stop some of our animals crossing to other side....some are chased by poachers...others obviously think the grass is greener....that's 16kms of river that's part of our boundary...rest is 11kms of fence...but some go in and out of that as well.....

I have absolutely no problem with that. I know there are quite a few places in Africa that have the same type of setup. I would love to hunt Takeri some day . I’m not opposed to any and all high fences as long as things are handled properly

 

[Ragman]

I have never hunted "Wild Africa" and most likely never will although I do dream of it. I have hunted Namibia and RSA once each and hope to again although with times being what they are that isn't in the cards for a while either. That being said I was 100% satisfied with both countries. Most of the land I hunted was low-fence cattle country however I did hunt my Impala on a high-fence parcel. Took two full days and once past the gate I never saw the fence. Even though most of the places we hunted in RSA were high fenced, once again I never saw them once through the gate. I actually had a more enjoyable time in RSA in large part due to a well known outfitter on AH right Marius? Not sure if he felt the same! Just kidding of course! In Namibia we spent a lot of time in the truck driving the perimeters of the low fences until we spotted game. In RSA we walked or we glassed and then made our stalks when game was spotted. It was like hunting at home except for the scenery and animals. Would love to hunt with Marius again.

Though I've never hunted "Wild Africa" I am blessed to live in Western Canada and have in my younger years hunted truly wild places for moose and black bear on numerous occasions. I can't afford to hunt the Yukon or Alberta/B.C. sheep and goats, but living here I don't have to. All that being said, my very favourite animals to hunt are deer, both whitetails and mulies. I do that in the populated southern areas of my province on low or no fenced farmland in a mixture of crop land and pasture. The deer are wilder and smarter than the deer that live up in the northern forests I can guarantee you that.

So the way I see it is that a person's preference is a personal thing. Some people are limited by finances, some aren't. If a person says wild areas are better than Namibia or RSA doesn't mean they are correct. But they're not wrong either. It's the best for them. Same for guys like me who hunt those two countries. Or the farmland back home. They are what's best for me.

 

[revturbo9967]

When I was looking into my first buffalo hunt I asked myself this same question repeatedly, (I even started a lengthy topic on here about it). I asked many members opinions on various topics and concluded I wanted to hunt dangerous game in an open area. Yes, there will be people where I am going to hunt (Zim) but it is still a wild place. The only influence on the animal population are hunters, poachers and nature. This can be said for spots in SA as well, but not as many. Like mentioned before, I agree a wild area must include predators which go after plains game as well as dangerous game.

 

[steve white]

I talked to a hunter on the flight home on SAA years ago who was disappointed in his hunt to NW SA just south of the Orange river...want to guess the reason? He didn't get his zebra although they were there in numbers because THEY were too wild. He said, "I couldn't get closer than 600 yds, and they were usually off to the races at 800 yds out!" He should have been thankful for the challenge, shouldn't he? He worked hard, saw a lot, had many stalks, just didn't connect that time. But he didn't say it wasn't wild enough, to him it was TOO wild, lol.

Well, you can't have it BOTH ways!

 

[VertigoBE]

This has been a very interesting thread to read so far. My thoughts on the subject:

What is Wild? And then in the same breath exclaim that "Wilder = better" and that this is what "true hunters" should be looking for. I beg to differ, it is a strawman argument at best.

For purposes of the discussion, I'll exclude tiny plot's with a put and take, or half drugged animals led in front of a shooter to kill. Those are the extreme examples that (luckily!) are not that common. Any ethical person should condemn such practices. Being a hunter or not.

There are many reasons for a hunter to go out to hunt. Some are searching for untouched nature to observe, others are looking for a physical challenge, some need danger lurking behind every bush. Some want to be able to see many animals and species, like walking in your private zoo. Some want to get away from people and civilization, others would rather interact with the people living there. And many hundred's of other reasons, all valid.

It would be hard to claim that the 80 year old hunter, who wants some comfort at night, and see many animals during the day, perhaps go on a short stalk and shoot, would be an unethical hunter because he did so on a Namibian low fenced farm?

Or the 30 year old in the prime of his life, who just wants to get away from people and people sounds, and interaction, to say he prefers to be in a lodge alone, with just the PH and some camp personnel, being able to discover an undisturbed, but high fenced large property in SA, where he won't see a car or a house or any other human objects.

What about the hunter going out on some concession in Zimbabwe at the end of the dry season, where everything is parched and waiting out the game at a drinking hole for him to shoot from a blind?

As long as an animal has a chance to get away, outsmart or outrun you, not just once but until the end of your safari, it can be called good hunting. Whether that is on a big fence, low fence or other barrier or no barrier does not really matter. It can get away.

And at some who laughed about natural barriers not being the same as a fence. Beside the obvious difference of manmade or not of course, who among you would want to follow tracks into a known natural cul-de-sac, out of which the animal/herd would have difficulty to escape from you once they spot you? Pushing up an animal onto the shores of a river or sea, and then picking it off?

I suppose everyone wants to have the feeling that they had to work for it. They had to earn it. But mostly that it was sporting. The game must have a chance. You must be able to accept not coming home with the object of your desire.

Personally, I like it when predators are around. PG seems to be more alert. I dislike it if there is a lot of human settlements (and the poachers that come with them) Those cows should all get gps trackers, not those bloody bells! But I'll accept some inconveniences if I get other wishes fulfilled. Having the surprise of stumbling onto one of the big five is a big one. Having to work the sweat into my eyeballs tracking an animal over multiple days makes me feel alive. A 2hr drive to a concession every morning and evening less so. I prefer not seeing any fences, but I've seen eland clear a 3m high fence without breaking a sweat. We cannot have it all.

Yes, us hunters should stand more shoulder to shoulder with our brethren. There is much more that binds us than there is that divides us.

Truly wild... roedeer hunting. No one breeds them, no one feeds them, no one fences them. But due to the limited remaining space from villages and roads, and the fact that roebuck's are very territorial, anyone who knows the local terrain can predict with 30% chance in which field this or that buck will be in the morning or the evening. Shot then from a blind or high seat. Some will call it the pinnacle of ethical hunting, others will not because it can be as predictable as shooting one over a food plot. Who cares, it is what is available in that location. When in Rome...

Anyway, my thoughts.

 

[Cleathorn]

This is another great discussion hosted on the Africa Hunting forum.

I have been fortunate to hunt Africa, Europe, North America, South America, South Pacific and Asia. Twenty years ago, there is no way I would have considered hunting a "high fence" operation. And then I did. And I learned. Each place, each trip, and most people I have met have been interesting in their own ways.

I take 4 to 8 new hunters to Africa every year. I always take them to South Africa. Virtually everything is debatable, but its hard to argue that South Africa is the easiest destination in Africa for the first time hunter. The hunting is also exceptional, with high game density, exceptional accommodations, its very safe (Jo'Berg is likely the most dangerous part of the journey), the cost is reachable for almost everyone, and virtually everything is new. And by the way, when you see your first rhino and there is no fence between you and said rhino, it feels pretty wild. Same for Buffalo, elephant, etc. I often then go on to "wild" Africa (Zimbabwe is my personal favorite) for some additional hunting. This year its Cameroon and Uganda.

I like the travel experience. That is a big part of the hunting experience for me, but it is not the same as saying that hunting wild Africa is better or more satisfying. Take for example lion hunting. I hunted my first lion in South Africa on a large property when it was still exportable to the US. I had a great hunt, walked about 40 miles and it ended in a pretty dramatic fashion. However, it wasn't "wild." So I hunted lion again in Zimbabwe in a very good area with plenty of lion. As is customary, it was a baited hunt. It was great. We hunted the bait, paid attention to tracks and baited in a great area. The mental aspect was great. Everything was great until the cat came. A good male fed, stayed nearby, and was there when we snuck into the blind. We saw the mature male lay down under shade tree. Easy shot. I opted to abandon the lion hunt. Everything was great except shooting a fat and happy old cat lying in the shade of a tree. The lion hunting in RSA was definitely more exciting. At least to me. But I love hunting elephant and Cape Buffalo on foot. I've been on 6 successful Cape Buffalo hunts, 4 in Zimbabwe and 2 in RSA. The only hunt that was not successful was on a fenced property in RSA. Property had good buffalo and we were on them the whole time but could not get a shot in 4 days. Never saw the fence.

Alaska is unquestionably "wild," but I saw just as few people (meaning none) while hunting moose and caribou in Newfoundland, Canada. Mountain hunting sheep and goats is considered among the most difficult hunting (and it is) but I shot a Alpine chamois in a meadow off a fence behind a house in the village we hunted near in Slovenia. I consider it one of my most favorite hunts. But there were people nearby, so not very "wild."

I was recently in New Zealand and explained to my host and friend that I was not interested in hunting "trophy" stages because they are all hunted in relatively small high fence areas (they are too expensive to let roam). He offered that I could take the stag for free if I could find it without a guide. It was not in the roar so I could not hear it. After 2 1/2 days inside a 400 acre paddock I was certain there were no stag and my friend was having fun with me. We then glassed 4 from the ridge above the paddock. I never saw them.

So like Gerry's OP, my views have changed over my time hunting. I hunt for the experience. For me that's taking new people, going to new places, hunting new species, and seeing new things. I used to think that it was only "real" hunting if I walked a 1,000 miles in the blinding rain and snow and suffered for the experience. Then I hunted in a place with a nice glass of wine, a charcuterie board and a masseuse, with my wife along, and decided suffering was overrated. I still suffer on hunts from time to time (without my wife), but it is not required for an exceptional hunting experience.

I have every intention to enjoying the hunt for Eastern Cape bushbuck in RSA this year every bit as much as I intend to enjoy hunting the harnessed bushbuck in Cameroon, and I wont ask either species their opinion on fencing.

 

[Justhunt]

Very well said @Cleathorn.

 

[Trophyhunter01]

It is all hunting and enjoyable either way for me. I hunt 16000 acres high fence in South Texas, that equals about 25 square miles. Most folks could not hike across that much land and good luck finding one animal in that cactus thorn nasty country. That ranch is highly managed, flown for deer surveys and cameras all over and every year deer are taken that have never been seen before or on camera a few times and never seen again.

 

[Jota Efe]

Growing up in my youth as a teenager i hunted in the gaza and maputo provinces in mozambique ;there were no fenced areas ; we used to hunt for the pot with a .22 LR and gauge 20 ; some areas were adjacent to big 5 CHA's (aka coutadas ) ; when I moved to south africa at the age of 21 I started hunting in game farms ; i have had great and physically testing tiring experiences hunting fenced game farms ; I have also had a good experience hunting in an open area concession in the niassa reserve in mozambique ; i have visited most of the southern africa countries other than mozambique but the hunting has been done with video and camera in the game reserves and national parks ; planning a comprehensive trip to zimbabwe in 2024 to visit or revisit the major national parks .

 

[WAB]

"Conflate" okay I had to look that one up. To blow together; bring together as if by convergent winds.

And that was me. The point I was making was some folks won't hunt a high fenced area no matter how large, but they'd hunt an island which is effectively "fenced" by water.

And yea, in Alaska we never talk about high fence hunting. Although I did consider high fencing my place and putting Bison on it, but that would stop the moose, coyotes, lynx, brown and black bear from using the land.

Which reminds me, when I first bought my place on the Kenai Peninsula I looked out a window and spotted a turkey...in Alaska. (How's that for thread drift!)

View attachment 511668

There were a bunch of pheasants running around Homer when we lived on the peninsula.

 

[Gerry Addison]

There is nothing that compares to hunting wild Africa to me. When I refer to wild Africa I’m usually referring to a concession area owned by government or community outside South Africa. To really be “wild” I feel it needs to have lions and leopards. If they are missing or not in area full time it shows the area is likely in decline. Booking a wild area, I really feel the concession needs to be top priority for a good hunt. The PH is a close second but still second. I’ve never had an issue finding trophy animals in wild areas. The number of trophies will often be less, but the experience far outweighs the number of trophies. I realize price is a consideration for everyone but if you want to hunt quality wild areas you just need to accept price or move on. Searching for a deal can lead to issues.
This was my hunt last year in Zimbabwe in Dande East 16 days, all primary trophies buffalo, sable, roan were taken in the first 7.
View attachment 511609This was my hunt in Kaokoland in NW Namibia north of the veterinary fence 2018. The outfitter had 3 conservancies at time totaling 1.5 million area communal land. These were taken in 6 hunting days along with zebra and ostrich at standard plains game pricing.
View attachment 511610
I’ve had other equally successful hunts, but don’t have the final skinning shed photos readily available. Good areas do exist with some research. There are a lot of areas I don’t feel should be being marketed but unfortunately still are.
South Africa has great hunting. I will hunt again. However the fencing can be a great thing or the opposite depending how it gets used. If a property is managed on a quota system and the fence is used to protect what’s inside it’s a great thing. If the fence is used to continuously stock what’s inside to sell larger numbers of trophy animals to hunters I hate the fence. There is a continual effort to downplay put and take hunting and fences in South Africa by just a few bad operations, but i think that’s being careless with the truth. The buffalo and sable breeding operations are very visible in Limpopo. The only end destination for the bulls is high fenced hunting ranches to supplement trophies removed. The game ranching videos with color variants and huge trophies are readily available on YouTube. The only market for this is hunting again. South Africa invented CBL lion hunting. Farm raising a lion in small pen on chickens then releasing 72 hours before a hunt into a bigger enclosure (then selling the bones to China). I see there is a post that South Africa is criticized because of its success. I’d say it’s criticized because of general acceptance and downplaying of these practices by outfitters there. If releasing a lion hours for shooting is hunting. I’m much more willing to question what other practices they are willing to accept or ways they will market their hunts. Whether an animal runs away from me doesn’t make it wild hunting to me. I’d like know animal was born on property and untouched by humans other than protecting area. Shooting a buffalo or sable raised as livestock then released into a hunting area isn’t a trophy to me whether it runs away from me or not. I’ll hunt South Africa again, but the practices that happen there don’t happen elsewhere (at least to that extent). I feel a lot of hunting in South Africa is borderline between commercial livestock farming and actual hunting. I’ll do as much due diligence to find a property managed on quotas as I would to find a quality wild unfenced area.

I agree with everything you have said in this post. If I could afford the great wild areas I would only hunt there. Hopefully the ranch I'm going to is managed correctly. I've been told it is a strict quota system and no put and take is being done here. Self sustaining herd of buffalo and hunted by tracking. I'll know soon enough and if not done correctly I won't pull the trigger on anything.

What gma was it?

Upper Lupande Zambia

 

[IvW]

I'm going to open a can of worms here and I realize that. Before I start I want to say that I'm speaking from my own personal experiences and from talking to others that have hunted both fenced areas in SA and "open" concessions. My conclusion is there is good and bad about both areas and you need to understand this when going to both the fenced and wild areas.

Let me start with the obvious, no matter how large the fenced area, you are still within a fence. No way around that in SA and much of Namibia. My first hunt like many of us was in SA on a large and very well known ranch. When I say large it was right at 40,000 acres. We saw tons of animals, good quality trophies, and the animals were super spooky. They didn't stand there and let you shoot them. We took long hikes, stalked our animals, and shot nice animals. My hunting partner shot a nice average hard boss buffalo with a bow after a long stalk. We walked away very satisfied and we had a great time. The only animals I ever saw at a feeder of any kind were Rhinos. Still, I said to myself I'll never hunt behind a fence again, no matter how large.

Fast forward a few years and I plan a trip to Zimbabwe for buffalo. Not knowing it at the time, I booked with a crook and was badly taken. I wrote a report about it on this site which you can find if you dig a little. Lets just say I only saw a couple buffalo in 12 days and ended up shooting a Zebra on the last day which took three years and a lot of dollars to get home because they didn't fill out the paperwork. This trip almost made me avoid Africa in the future. My own fault, I didn't dig deep enough before booking. The references he gave wrote glowing reports, but had I dug deeper I would have found other very disturbing reports.

Now I decided I'm really going to do it right and went with a very well known PH in Mozambique. It was brutal getting to camp but I honestly didn't mind that because it was wild Africa! After 4 plane rides and three truck rides and two boat rides I made it to camp. To say I was pumped was an understatement. We were on buffalo every time we left camp and on the third day we shot an average buffalo which I was told to shoot by the PH. It was the first shooter bull I had ever seen and I took him at his word and shot. Had I known what I know now I wouldn't have shot. So I got my first buffalo. However, after all that travel, we would be out hunting and we would continually see locals walking around, riding bikes, etc. There were poacher snares and gin traps everywhere, and we even caught some poachers while out on a hunt. It was 115 degrees and of course no air conditioning, but after the second night we were given a small battery operated fan which at the time was wonderful!. I was in "wild" Africa but I saw more people on this trip than on my other two trips and far more than my trip in SA. The animals seemed to be accustomed to seeing humans and really didn't react in the same spooky manner that they did in SA.

Now I decide I'm really going to go overboard, do my homework, spend more money than I had before and book with a very well known PH in Zambia. We land at the airport and a PH is there to pick us up but not our PH. On the way to camp I ask if our PH is in camp and he said no, he was in another country and not feeling well so they wouldn't let him on the plane. No one had taken the time to tell us this even though we all had email and texting and they had know this for some time. Then we get to camp and we go to sight in the rifles. I was going to bring my Blaser R8 but my PH says don't bother, we have a Blaser R8 here in camp with a Swarovski scope that you can use. Well guess what, they forgot to bring the rifle to camp. I now have a CZ. Bad start but we were determined not to let it ruin our trip. The PH we now had was great, hunted hard, long days, for 10 days. Saw tons of buffalo and I mean tons. On one herd I stopped counting at 600 but not one hard bossed bull. Once again, we saw tons of people walking around, hiking riding bikes, farming, etc. Animals seemed accustomed to seeing people and my friend killed an average bull with a bow that allowed us to drive up and get close to so he could get out and shoot. That was the only decent hard bossed bull we saw in ten hard days of hunting. It was his first bull and he was happy. Two days we drove 2 1/2 hours each way to hunt a certain area, so 5 hours of our day was wasted driving. We saw lots of other animals but nothing of trophy quality. Not a decent Impala, warthog, Kudu, etc. My friend did shoot a nice Croc and there was no shortage of Crocs or hippo. I left there after 10 days and didn't fire a shot. I honestly had a great time hunting with the PH and would hunt with him again anytime, but not in that area. There is nothing we could have done any differently to give ourselves a better chance. It just wasn't in the cards for me on this trip and that is hunting.

So now I'm eating my words and going back to SA on another large fenced area this May. This one is 50,000 acres. Hunting with a young PH who's family has been in the business but has had mostly European clients and wants to break into the American market. I chose to go back to SA for several reasons. The first being, while I like to see the villages and meet the local people I don't like running into them while I'm hunting. I don't like all the poaching that goes on in many of the wild areas and not being able to find decent trophy quality no matter how hard you hunt. To be honest, it feels more wild to me in SA than it does in some of the other so called wild areas. Animals seem more wary because they are hunted, you don't waste time driving to distant areas to hunt, and trophy quality and cost are better. I want to say, money factors in to all my decisions as I'm a retired school principal so when I take these trips it is because I've saved to take them. If I had unlimited funds sure I'd go to Tanzania or some of the other places, but I just can't justify double the cost and believe me I've tried. I know this is going to rub people the wrong way, and some are going to say if you'd done your homework you would have had better hunts. Believe me I did my homework. The guy in Zim was a crook and a very slick crook who conned many people. The others were just tough luck.

I'm writing this to see if any of you feel the same way as I am beginning to feel. Many of the "wild" areas aren't really that wild, and if you choose the right place SA can be a very positive and challenging experience. Believe me I'm not looking for easy. I'll hunt as hard as the PH will allow. I don't need a guarantee to kill something, as I said I had a great time last year in Zambia and I never fired a shot and honestly was never tempted by any of the animals to fire a shot. I would just not like to deal with the extra stuff that you can run into in some of these "wild" areas. I just want to go to an area with a reasonable expectation of finding some quality animals and hunt with someone that will hunt hard and make things enjoyable and at the same time not spend all of my life's savings. Am I the only one who feels this way?

Well said....

 

[Gerry Addison]

This has been a very interesting thread to read so far. My thoughts on the subject:

What is Wild? And then in the same breath exclaim that "Wilder = better" and that this is what "true hunters" should be looking for. I beg to differ, it is a strawman argument at best.

For purposes of the discussion, I'll exclude tiny plot's with a put and take, or half drugged animals led in front of a shooter to kill. Those are the extreme examples that (luckily!) are not that common. Any ethical person should condemn such practices. Being a hunter or not.

There are many reasons for a hunter to go out to hunt. Some are searching for untouched nature to observe, others are looking for a physical challenge, some need danger lurking behind every bush. Some want to be able to see many animals and species, like walking in your private zoo. Some want to get away from people and civilization, others would rather interact with the people living there. And many hundred's of other reasons, all valid.

It would be hard to claim that the 80 year old hunter, who wants some comfort at night, and see many animals during the day, perhaps go on a short stalk and shoot, would be an unethical hunter because he did so on a Namibian low fenced farm?

Or the 30 year old in the prime of his life, who just wants to get away from people and people sounds, and interaction, to say he prefers to be in a lodge alone, with just the PH and some camp personnel, being able to discover an undisturbed, but high fenced large property in SA, where he won't see a car or a house or any other human objects.

What about the hunter going out on some concession in Zimbabwe at the end of the dry season, where everything is parched and waiting out the game at a drinking hole for him to shoot from a blind?

As long as an animal has a chance to get away, outsmart or outrun you, not just once but until the end of your safari, it can be called good hunting. Whether that is on a big fence, low fence or other barrier or no barrier does not really matter. It can get away.

And at some who laughed about natural barriers not being the same as a fence. Beside the obvious difference of manmade or not of course, who among you would want to follow tracks into a known natural cul-de-sac, out of which the animal/herd would have difficulty to escape from you once they spot you? Pushing up an animal onto the shores of a river or sea, and then picking it off?

I suppose everyone wants to have the feeling that they had to work for it. They had to earn it. But mostly that it was sporting. The game must have a chance. You must be able to accept not coming home with the object of your desire.

Personally, I like it when predators are around. PG seems to be more alert. I dislike it if there is a lot of human settlements (and the poachers that come with them) Those cows should all get gps trackers, not those bloody bells! But I'll accept some inconveniences if I get other wishes fulfilled. Having the surprise of stumbling onto one of the big five is a big one. Having to work the sweat into my eyeballs tracking an animal over multiple days makes me feel alive. A 2hr drive to a concession every morning and evening less so. I prefer not seeing any fences, but I've seen eland clear a 3m high fence without breaking a sweat. We cannot have it all.

Yes, us hunters should stand more shoulder to shoulder with our brethren. There is much more that binds us than there is that divides us.

Truly wild... roedeer hunting. No one breeds them, no one feeds them, no one fences them. But due to the limited remaining space from villages and roads, and the fact that roebuck's are very territorial, anyone who knows the local terrain can predict with 30% chance in which field this or that buck will be in the morning or the evening. Shot then from a blind or high seat. Some will call it the pinnacle of ethical hunting, others will not because it can be as predictable as shooting one over a food plot. Who cares, it is what is available in that location. When in Rome...

Anyway, my thoughts.

Well said, I completely agree!

 

[Gerry Addison]

This is another great discussion hosted on the Africa Hunting forum.

I have been fortunate to hunt Africa, Europe, North America, South America, South Pacific and Asia. Twenty years ago, there is no way I would have considered hunting a "high fence" operation. And then I did. And I learned. Each place, each trip, and most people I have met have been interesting in their own ways.

I take 4 to 8 new hunters to Africa every year. I always take them to South Africa. Virtually everything is debatable, but its hard to argue that South Africa is the easiest destination in Africa for the first time hunter. The hunting is also exceptional, with high game density, exceptional accommodations, its very safe (Jo'Berg is likely the most dangerous part of the journey), the cost is reachable for almost everyone, and virtually everything is new. And by the way, when you see your first rhino and there is no fence between you and said rhino, it feels pretty wild. Same for Buffalo, elephant, etc. I often then go on to "wild" Africa (Zimbabwe is my personal favorite) for some additional hunting. This year its Cameroon and Uganda.

I like the travel experience. That is a big part of the hunting experience for me, but it is not the same as saying that hunting wild Africa is better or more satisfying. Take for example lion hunting. I hunted my first lion in South Africa on a large property when it was still exportable to the US. I had a great hunt, walked about 40 miles and it ended in a pretty dramatic fashion. However, it wasn't "wild." So I hunted lion again in Zimbabwe in a very good area with plenty of lion. As is customary, it was a baited hunt. It was great. We hunted the bait, paid attention to tracks and baited in a great area. The mental aspect was great. Everything was great until the cat came. A good male fed, stayed nearby, and was there when we snuck into the blind. We saw the mature male lay down under shade tree. Easy shot. I opted to abandon the lion hunt. Everything was great except shooting a fat and happy old cat lying in the shade of a tree. The lion hunting in RSA was definitely more exciting. At least to me. But I love hunting elephant and Cape Buffalo on foot. I've been on 6 successful Cape Buffalo hunts, 4 in Zimbabwe and 2 in RSA. The only hunt that was not successful was on a fenced property in RSA. Property had good buffalo and we were on them the whole time but could not get a shot in 4 days. Never saw the fence.

Alaska is unquestionably "wild," but I saw just as few people (meaning none) while hunting moose and caribou in Newfoundland, Canada. Mountain hunting sheep and goats is considered among the most difficult hunting (and it is) but I shot a Alpine chamois in a meadow off a fence behind a house in the village we hunted near in Slovenia. I consider it one of my most favorite hunts. But there were people nearby, so not very "wild."

I was recently in New Zealand and explained to my host and friend that I was not interested in hunting "trophy" stages because they are all hunted in relatively small high fence areas (they are too expensive to let roam). He offered that I could take the stag for free if I could find it without a guide. It was not in the roar so I could not hear it. After 2 1/2 days inside a 400 acre paddock I was certain there were no stag and my friend was having fun with me. We then glassed 4 from the ridge above the paddock. I never saw them.

So like Gerry's OP, my views have changed over my time hunting. I hunt for the experience. For me that's taking new people, going to new places, hunting new species, and seeing new things. I used to think that it was only "real" hunting if I walked a 1,000 miles in the blinding rain and snow and suffered for the experience. Then I hunted in a place with a nice glass of wine, a charcuterie board and a masseuse, with my wife along, and decided suffering was overrated. I still suffer on hunts from time to time (without my wife), but it is not required for an exceptional hunting experience.

I have every intention to enjoying the hunt for Eastern Cape bushbuck in RSA this year every bit as much as I intend to enjoy hunting the harnessed bushbuck in Cameroon, and I wont ask either species their opinion on fencing.

Couldn't agree with you more. Perfectly said and you made the points I was trying to make. Thank you

 

[BRICKBURN]

......... The guy that I booked with from Zimbabwe could steal your gold teeth and make you smile about it, he was that smooth, but what a liar. Three hunters hunting with one PH and none of the three of us knew about the other two. Live and learn. Sometimes deals are just too good to be true.

...and paying him to steal those teeth. He will tell the prospective target exactly what they want to hear.

 

[Gerry Addison]

...and paying him to steal those teeth. He will tell the prospective target exactly what they want to hear.

You must know him!

 

[mdwest]

For me I want to hunt everywhere and everything that is legal and ethical in the world.

+1

I love variety, new experiences, new people, new cultures, new foods, new terrain, etc.. So we try to add somewhere "new" to hunt every year (whether in Africa, or somewhere else)... but I also deeply cherish the friendships already made/established, the comfort of returning to land familiar and well known, and getting better at hunting a particular species or property (through learning).. so we also make regular return trips to places that we have been before and seek out the services of outfitters/PHs we already have relationships with.. A week in camp with a PH you already have a relationship with, hunting a property you know well, etc also brings a lot of value (to me at least...)..

For me.. I want a blend of both new and old/familiar.. as long as you're dealing with an honest, reputable PH/Outfitter, the experience is what you make of it..

 

[Sourdough]

An animal running from you on your approach doesn't show it's "wild". It shows it's terrified of man because it has been hunted or harassed before, or been part of a group that has been hunted or harassed.

Animals standing around on your approach do so because they haven't been hunted or harassed by man so have little fear.

Think Kruger National Park. Those animals are not hunted. They have no fear of man which is why they can be approached on foot or by vehicle.

In Alaska, even on my property, bears and moose stand and just look at me when we are near each other. They never run away. There are only 750,000 of us in an area 1/3 the size of the lower 48 and over half of those live in Anchorage, which isn't Alaska but you can see Alaska from there. (that's an inside joke among Alaskans)

In the US, if wild pigs aren't hunted you'll see them out during the day. As soon as they start getting hunted they go nocturnal. Before the arrival of the hunters with firearms, deer were out and fed during the day. Now you have to hope you find them and the crack of dawn or just before it becomes night, cause that's when they feel safe enough to feed. (Oh and they come out and feed at noon because all the hunters are back in camp).

 

[MarkB]

Wow what a post, 6 pages in 2 days, thanks for relating your experiences @Gerry Addison. Lots of good points from both sides of the "fence".

Seams like Gerry has encountered some of the same issues I have experienced. Started with bullshitting US booking agents, that was before internet and Africa barley had phone service, so now I will NEVER use a booking agent, today its easy to communicate with outfitter and even PH, but sometimes the BS to get a client has reached the outfitters, stating in writing affirmatives to what I ask then not following when on the ground.

Fences do not bother me, SA allows someone of my financial ability to hunt species that I would not otherwise hunt. I knew my lion was CB, lechwe are not native to SA, and some PG were behind fence. I was shocked at buffalo seamed tame in SA, never had I seen that before from wild Zim areas or on any TV show. SA was my first safari ever where trackers and all PH's never had the ash bag or powder bottle.

Tell me about the fenced size when asked, when asked about the croc, don't answer we will bait a river and look for a shooter, but after I am there we "sneak" up to a series of 10 acre ponds surrounded by fences. Don't tell me I will be only hunters in camp, yet when I arrive there are a group of others, request rough tent camp and are put up in Hilton? Those things will piss me off and I will voice loudly my discontent.

I think the best way to alleviate many of these speaking points is for the outfitters to be brutally honest. Tell perspective clients what you can do, and cannot do and most important FOLLOW what you state. Every safari has a hiccup, but not every outfitter is honest.

Hunters/clients can complete all the due diligence they can, but ultimately its the outfitter following thru with stated promises that turns a safari into a life changing experience. I ask that outfitters say what they can do and more importantly DO AS THEY SAY.

With time, resources and each safari we learn, I can state that there are outfitters on this site that I will contact first for my next safaris. I have your names.

MB