Hunting SA or "Wild" Africa - Which is Better

[BRICKBURN]

Some Google Earth images.
Mozambique 'wild" and South Africa.
The second image is a "zoomed" in area of the first picture.
The third picture is the edge of Hluhluwe park border.

I knew what I was in for in Moz. There were little "villages" everywhere, on every road.
As has been noted, know where you are headed, have a look on Google Earth. You'll know shortly what you are getting in to.

Zambia wild place.

Tanzania Wild place

 

[Hank2211]

Ethiopia is one of those places which you might think is wild . . . But in a small country with over 110 million people, they are truly everywhere . . . Makes hunting a bit difficult, but if you want the spiral horns or the bushbuck, you have to put up with it.

 

[Flewis]

Nothing puts me off more than cow bells and local people wandering around on my hunt. Not to mention the danger of accidentally shooting an animal and suddenly it was a prize bull. Worse still by orders of magnitude a person and your life is ruined. Once years ago on a private ranch doing night time jackal control with a shotgun a group of people suddenly appeared out of the gloom with bundles of wood on their heads that they were illegally collecting. We just went straight home.
It is a great pity about your bad experience in Zimbabwe Gerry, there are indeed some truly wild areas here, expensive but not bank breaking.
I have hunted South Africa only twice, but visited large fenced game areas without hunting and the definition that divides it for me is 'fenced hunting areas as a unit block' or 'mixed game/farming areas with internal fenced paddocs'. The latter are a joke and really spoil it for the former true hunting operations. I find nothing wrong at all in a large fenced hunting block. Remember those high fences are there as much to keep domestic livestock and people out as they are to keep game in.
I agree with @Red Leg that the final criterion is that the game mest be endemic to that area, reintroduced is fine, but an introduced zoo is not. No artificials for me either, it is like bling hunting imo.
I am seriously considering some SA hunts, even though it adds the hassle of the rifle export permit.

My whole point is we should be fighting about any of this. We need more hunters. Anyway we can get them helps us all. Everyone here is not as sharp as you are or thinks before the speak.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I think Red Leg and Mr. Peacocke pretty much hit the nail on the head.

I will be going on my first safari this year and I’m already planning my second (whenever that is). I know it will be at least 10 days and I will either be hunting buffalo or elephant (either tuskless or a non trophy and/or non export bull).

As far as buffalo go, I believe there are many operators in RSA that do it right and there is a great offer on AH that comes to mind that is incredibly tempting (40k+ acres, sustainable herd, tracking hunt, low off take etc..).

Having said that there is one major factor that gives me incredible pause on DG hunting in RSA other than the places open to Kruger (possibly others?) and that is predation or the lack there of. Will my dagga boy have survived lions all his life and possibly have the scars to prove it? Or am I wrong and missing something?

 

[Sourdough]

I've hunted High Fence Africa and Wild Africa. As long as I'm not pushing animals against a fence I generally don't have a problem with High Fence hunts. I do know this for a fact, High Fence is the future as humans will eventually take away all Wild areas, except perhaps Alaska because of its long cold depressive winters.

I surely love Wild Africa, and will continue to hunt there. I'm glad I have the opportunity to enjoy it because in 100 years or so it will be no more. Unless of course the human race experiences a real pandemic, or an extinction event, or WW3. Anything that reduces the population by at least half.

High Fences should be embraced and encouraged. They will be the only thing that saves most species from extinction as they already have.

BTW, lakes and rivers "high fence" islands, as does the ocean. The Kodiak Islands comes to mind as well as all the South East Alaska Islands. Biggest Brown and Black Bear hunting in the world.

 

[steve white]

So, price being no object (theoretically, of course), where is the "wildest" country and area to hunt in sub-Saharan Africa?

A recent write up by Alain LeFol has me thinking his corner of the CAR, since it is isolated beyond the impact of bygone instabilities. I think parts of Zimbabwe, for sure. Probably MANY I have no idea about. But the ones I just mentioned are NOT impoverished with regard to game quality. I have the idea that parts of Zambia and Moz are trying to build back after poaching by programs that teach indigenous people the value of reserving trophy animals for foreign dollars. (only parts of course)

 

[Scott CWO]

I'm going to open a can of worms here and I realize that. Before I start I want to say that I'm speaking from my own personal experiences and from talking to others that have hunted both fenced areas in SA and "open" concessions. My conclusion is there is good and bad about both areas and you need to understand this when going to both the fenced and wild areas.

Let me start with the obvious, no matter how large the fenced area, you are still within a fence. No way around that in SA and much of Namibia. My first hunt like many of us was in SA on a large and very well known ranch. When I say large it was right at 40,000 acres. We saw tons of animals, good quality trophies, and the animals were super spooky. They didn't stand there and let you shoot them. We took long hikes, stalked our animals, and shot nice animals. My hunting partner shot a nice average hard boss buffalo with a bow after a long stalk. We walked away very satisfied and we had a great time. The only animals I ever saw at a feeder of any kind were Rhinos. Still, I said to myself I'll never hunt behind a fence again, no matter how large.

Fast forward a few years and I plan a trip to Zimbabwe for buffalo. Not knowing it at the time, I booked with a crook and was badly taken. I wrote a report about it on this site which you can find if you dig a little. Lets just say I only saw a couple buffalo in 12 days and ended up shooting a Zebra on the last day which took three years and a lot of dollars to get home because they didn't fill out the paperwork. This trip almost made me avoid Africa in the future. My own fault, I didn't dig deep enough before booking. The references he gave wrote glowing reports, but had I dug deeper I would have found other very disturbing reports.

Now I decided I'm really going to do it right and went with a very well known PH in Mozambique. It was brutal getting to camp but I honestly didn't mind that because it was wild Africa! After 4 plane rides and three truck rides and two boat rides I made it to camp. To say I was pumped was an understatement. We were on buffalo every time we left camp and on the third day we shot an average buffalo which I was told to shoot by the PH. It was the first shooter bull I had ever seen and I took him at his word and shot. Had I known what I know now I wouldn't have shot. So I got my first buffalo. However, after all that travel, we would be out hunting and we would continually see locals walking around, riding bikes, etc. There were poacher snares and gin traps everywhere, and we even caught some poachers while out on a hunt. It was 115 degrees and of course no air conditioning, but after the second night we were given a small battery operated fan which at the time was wonderful!. I was in "wild" Africa but I saw more people on this trip than on my other two trips and far more than my trip in SA. The animals seemed to be accustomed to seeing humans and really didn't react in the same spooky manner that they did in SA.

Now I decide I'm really going to go overboard, do my homework, spend more money than I had before and book with a very well known PH in Zambia. We land at the airport and a PH is there to pick us up but not our PH. On the way to camp I ask if our PH is in camp and he said no, he was in another country and not feeling well so they wouldn't let him on the plane. No one had taken the time to tell us this even though we all had email and texting and they had know this for some time. Then we get to camp and we go to sight in the rifles. I was going to bring my Blaser R8 but my PH says don't bother, we have a Blaser R8 here in camp with a Swarovski scope that you can use. Well guess what, they forgot to bring the rifle to camp. I now have a CZ. Bad start but we were determined not to let it ruin our trip. The PH we now had was great, hunted hard, long days, for 10 days. Saw tons of buffalo and I mean tons. On one herd I stopped counting at 600 but not one hard bossed bull. Once again, we saw tons of people walking around, hiking riding bikes, farming, etc. Animals seemed accustomed to seeing people and my friend killed an average bull with a bow that allowed us to drive up and get close to so he could get out and shoot. That was the only decent hard bossed bull we saw in ten hard days of hunting. It was his first bull and he was happy. Two days we drove 2 1/2 hours each way to hunt a certain area, so 5 hours of our day was wasted driving. We saw lots of other animals but nothing of trophy quality. Not a decent Impala, warthog, Kudu, etc. My friend did shoot a nice Croc and there was no shortage of Crocs or hippo. I left there after 10 days and didn't fire a shot. I honestly had a great time hunting with the PH and would hunt with him again anytime, but not in that area. There is nothing we could have done any differently to give ourselves a better chance. It just wasn't in the cards for me on this trip and that is hunting.

So now I'm eating my words and going back to SA on another large fenced area this May. This one is 50,000 acres. Hunting with a young PH who's family has been in the business but has had mostly European clients and wants to break into the American market. I chose to go back to SA for several reasons. The first being, while I like to see the villages and meet the local people I don't like running into them while I'm hunting. I don't like all the poaching that goes on in many of the wild areas and not being able to find decent trophy quality no matter how hard you hunt. To be honest, it feels more wild to me in SA than it does in some of the other so called wild areas. Animals seem more wary because they are hunted, you don't waste time driving to distant areas to hunt, and trophy quality and cost are better. I want to say, money factors in to all my decisions as I'm a retired school principal so when I take these trips it is because I've saved to take them. If I had unlimited funds sure I'd go to Tanzania or some of the other places, but I just can't justify double the cost and believe me I've tried. I know this is going to rub people the wrong way, and some are going to say if you'd done your homework you would have had better hunts. Believe me I did my homework. The guy in Zim was a crook and a very slick crook who conned many people. The others were just tough luck.

I'm writing this to see if any of you feel the same way as I am beginning to feel. Many of the "wild" areas aren't really that wild, and if you choose the right place SA can be a very positive and challenging experience. Believe me I'm not looking for easy. I'll hunt as hard as the PH will allow. I don't need a guarantee to kill something, as I said I had a great time last year in Zambia and I never fired a shot and honestly was never tempted by any of the animals to fire a shot. I would just not like to deal with the extra stuff that you can run into in some of these "wild" areas. I just want to go to an area with a reasonable expectation of finding some quality animals and hunt with someone that will hunt hard and make things enjoyable and at the same time not spend all of my life's savings. Am I the only one who feels this way?

I appreciate your post and have heard of these issues that you have experienced in unfenced areas. However, my experiences in open areas have been vastly different and I can honestly say that I have thoroughly enjoyed every one. Of the nine open areas I have hunted, I saw a fair amount of people with Safaris de Mocambique along the shores of Lake Cahora Bassa in Mozambique and it was a bit of a turnoff but the hunting was good and I was there for a giant crocodile, primarily. Another area where I saw a scattering of people was in Tanzania in Massailand but I knew that going in and it wasn’t a problem and the Massai actually helped us at times. In the other open, wild areas I have hunted, I saw very few people.

Unlike a lot of people on this site, I look FIRST at the areas to hunt and NOT the PH. I research the areas extensively and if area doesn’t have the species I am interested in or the type of experience I am interested in, then the greatest PH in Africa hunting there wouldn’t matter to me. So, my advice is to research areas first and PHs second. Most great areas will have great PHs anyway. I look at the remoteness of the area, whether it borders any national parks, the species available and if the operator does a lot of anti-poaching. It’s no mistake that I hunted Zambia in 2022 bordering Kafue NP with an operator that does extensive anti-poaching. Same for hunting in Botswana bordering both the un-hunted Moremi Game Reserve and Chobe NP, as well as the Niassa Reserve in northern Mozambique and Coutada 9 in Mozambique where the operators do serious anti-poaching. This year I will be in Tanzania again, this time bordering Serengeti NP on the park’s west side.

I certainly am not against hunting on a large fenced property. After my 2021 free-range elephant hunt in Botswana, I traveled to an 18,000 acre private ranch and hunted a gemsbok. However, I have zero interest in “put and take” shooting or shooting animals that are on smaller properties and/or animals that are supplementally fed. I am currently researching a rhino hunt, all of which take place behind a fence, but I am looking at the sizes of properties and whether or not the hunt is done for any rhino we come across or if only for a specific, known rhino is the only animal I can take. There are some very large properties in SA with rhino hunting that is as close to the good ole days of free range rhino hunting as possible right now. I have yet to make a decision but I’m getting closer.

I also have the advantage of having been in the hunting industry for more than 30 years so I have heard of a lot of great hunts, and some not-so-great hunts, from my clients. I certainly have a lot more to learn but if I can help recommend areas to you or other members, send me a PM. My advice is not to give up on wild areas yet.

 

[Tbitty]

10,000 acres is over 15 square miles of area. Multiply that as concessions get larger. Most animals will never travel more than a portion of such large spaces.

As has been mentioned, there's more layers than simply high or low fence to make a place "wild." Just the same, there are layers to what each individual considers fair chase. Some of these can include: high/low fence, feeders, weapon of choice (including crossbow vs compound bow for archery), size of space, breeding programs, put and take, stocked fields or streams, and so many more.

As the saying goes, "to each their own" ... if you're not proud of an animal you take, or at least happy with how a hunt turns out, then assess that feeling and determine how to change it for next time.

 

[Tra3]

Kaokoland in Namibia is massive and wild. There are very few people in an area that is around a million acres.

I had the displeasure of a moose hunt in British Columbia. We had thousands and thousands of acres to hunt. And the hunting was to be done by 8-10 hrs per day of driving logging roads. No one shot a moose on that trip. I wish I had done more research, but I agreed to go with a friend who had planned the hunt. The drive there was way more interesting that the 5 days of sitting in the guide’s truck.
I agree that research in advance is crucial. So are calls to verify your research. But first, know what you really want to do. I don’t care too much about shooting the biggest animal. I like to work hard for a hunt and see a lot of land on foot. I also really appreciate learning about the area where I hunt and the culture.

 

[Tanks]

...

As has been mentioned, there's more layers than simply high or low fence to make a place "wild." ...

Last August as we were tracking some dugga boys about 10km into the jess we encountered lion tracks on top of the buffalo tracks (realized why they were super vigilant). You are not going to see that at a fenced RSA farm.

 

[steve white]

Alright, I have decided on MY definition of "wild"....it has to do with more than the main species I may be after. I think wild has to do more with the "neighborhood", that is, what are you likely to bump into while out hunting that you have to take pains to avoid/detour around. This includes elephants, elephants with young, herds of buffalo, or hippos on land returning to water at first light, lions or even camp leopards coming through camp after lights out (and enough game to feed the predators), or as Tanks just mentioned, coming across lions following the same buff you are following, crocodiles whose presence means you don't loiter near the water's edge--even to fish off the bank, baboons cheeky enough to challenge you, and maybe exotic and dangerous reptiles, and the usual etc, etc. This leads to the second part of the definition--the possibility of PAC which might involve you getting invited to help sort it out. Ditto with helping out on poaching. It is a place where you are likely to hear a big cat as you are dosing off to sleep. The terrain can often be intimidating--lots of tall grass--taller than you had imagined and with the swishing sound of elephants passing by that are different than the sounds of puku which are different than the sound of spooked buffalo--all unseen at close range. It might involve jess bush. It might involve the superstitious side of the equation, with paying off the witch doctor or having the PH insist your rifle gets his blessing, or asking for his help when nothing is working and having things inexplicably turn around. It certainly includes a lack of city bred meaness in any indigenous persons, and a natural hospitality devoid of racial politics. It requires boiling water, lots of shots, and suffering a bit. A real chest beating experience!

 

[Mekaniks]

I believe there is a lot to be said about the difference between expectation and reality. And how we as hunters form expectations and outfitters provide reality.

I "hunt" pheasant once every year with my dad (who is 80) on a game bird ranch. We know the birds are raised in a pen to be released. The outfitter releases the birds (as many as we pay for) just before allowing us into the field. He puts out markers where he releases them and will even hobble them if we want him to. I have a local bird guide bring his dogs, and the dogs get to practice pointing and retrieving birds (he usually brings a pup w/ an older dog). We have a good time, and take home a few birds for a family dinner. We know exactly what to expect and what we are paying for.

The problem with hunting "Wild Africa" as I see it, is that many of us that haven't done it before, really don't know what to expect ,and we build up a perception of what we think it should be. If that reality does not meet our perceived expectation then there is an issue. i.e villagers riding their bikes past the watering hole blind all day....

The same can be said of high fenced hunting. It can be a challenging fun and exciting hunt. It can also be a shoot in a pen. If we are expecting one hunt, but the other one is the reality, things can go south fast.

We the hunter "the client" need to make sure we know what we doing when we book a hunt, and make sure our expectations align with what we are paying for. I like Brickburn's suggestion of using google maps to see how many villages are nearby the hunting concession.

And of course the other side of that is Outfitters needs to be upfront as possible when selling packages and booking clients so that the hunter can fairly develop expectations. i.e don't tell me that we are going to hunt sable on 10,000 acres but when I get there the sable are in a 100 acre enclosure inside that 10,000 acres.

All of this is why I love the AH site and community. If there is ever a question about a hunt, species or outfitter, there is a really good chance that someone around here, or some information in the archives, is going to be able to shed some light on it and help form expectations.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Last August as we were tracking some dugga boys about 10km into the jess we encountered lion tracks on top of the buffalo tracks (realized why they were super vigilant). You are not going to see that at a fenced RSA farm.

Really? How about being mocked charged by Lions that have come through the "impenetrable" fence" while hunting Buffalo in an area bordering K.N.P?

 

[mark-hunter]

I'm going to open a can of worms here and I realize that. Before I start I want to say that I'm speaking from my own personal experiences and from talking to others that have hunted both fenced areas in SA and "open" concessions.

You have said it in perfect details in your opening post.
Whatever you decide after reading the community inputs here, will again be only your decision.
Not an easy one!

I have similar concerns, for my future hunts.

My input:
1. If you dont have experience, and want trophy 100% after first hunt, then go to South Africa or Namibia, ranch hunting.
But this is not your case exactly.
You have already expereinced this, and have your first tastes of Africa. So the horns are second priority.

2. If you want wilderness expereince go to Zim, Tanzania, Mosambique. Choose wisely your outfiter, and go there. Keep always im mind, then it is about the expereince, not horns. Experience you will have even if you dont shoot. If your hunt is below expectations, you still will have expereince of "modern wild Africa", maybe locals, maybe seeing less game, due to poaching etc. But its modern African reality as well.
There have been reputable outfits, who failed to deliver, reported to this forum. Maybe just becasue of wrong choice of season in wild areas. But failed nonetheless. WIlderness hunt is chance. And thats it.

3. Young PH.
In hunting camp where I was hunting, in Namibia, there were two PHs sons age cca 16. They are all over and up to the neck about hunitng, guns, animals. They live for it.They grew up at the farm. I told my PH when I come next time I want to hunt with them! Youngs are possibly more pasionate. Old PH is more experienced but what the young PH lacks in experience, he makes up with effort and passion. Convesrations are more easy, bonding is much more smooth *then with "old grumpy PH"). (Ok thats my view and expereince, becasue those two kids grew up in bush, and know everything, but thats how I see it.
It could be different if young PH comes from urban area, and start learning the trade at age of 20, but not spending his young years in the bush, and on the farm...)

4. Modern Africa
Times of Ruark and Hemingway are long gone. Modern wild Africa today is diferent. Always keep that in mind. You will not repeat Ruark.

So, go wild, expect experience, choose wisely, and hope for best, dont be dissapointed if horns are not up to the expectations. Compromise if neccessary by hunting something else, then what was originally planned.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Nothing puts me off more than cow bells and local people wandering around on my hunt. Not to mention the danger of accidentally shooting an animal and suddenly it was a prize bull. Worse still by orders of magnitude a person and your life is ruined. Once years ago on a private ranch doing night time jackal control with a shotgun a group of people suddenly appeared out of the gloom with bundles of wood on their heads that they were illegally collecting. We just went straight home.
It is a great pity about your bad experience in Zimbabwe Gerry, there are indeed some truly wild areas here, expensive but not bank breaking.
I have hunted South Africa only twice, but visited large fenced game areas without hunting and the definition that divides it for me is 'fenced hunting areas as a unit block' or 'mixed game/farming areas with internal fenced paddocs'. The latter are a joke and really spoil it for the former true hunting operations. I find nothing wrong at all in a large fenced hunting block. Remember those high fences are there as much to keep domestic livestock and people out as they are to keep game in.
I agree with @Red Leg that the final criterion is that the game mest be endemic to that area, reintroduced is fine, but an introduced zoo is not. No artificials for me either, it is like bling hunting imo.
I am seriously considering some SA hunts, even though it adds the hassle of the ri

Certainly don't want locals to ruin a stalk or a hunt, but as far as seeing them out and about, I actually thinks it adds to the entire experience.
On campfire areas, I think they are quite valuable once that bush telegraph starts working.

 

[EXECUTIVE HUNT AFRICA]

I'm going to open a can of worms here and I realize that. Before I start I want to say that I'm speaking from my own personal experiences and from talking to others that have hunted both fenced areas in SA and "open" concessions. My conclusion is there is good and bad about both areas and you need to understand this when going to both the fenced and wild areas.

Let me start with the obvious, no matter how large the fenced area, you are still within a fence. No way around that in SA and much of Namibia. My first hunt like many of us was in SA on a large and very well known ranch. When I say large it was right at 40,000 acres. We saw tons of animals, good quality trophies, and the animals were super spooky. They didn't stand there and let you shoot them. We took long hikes, stalked our animals, and shot nice animals. My hunting partner shot a nice average hard boss buffalo with a bow after a long stalk. We walked away very satisfied and we had a great time. The only animals I ever saw at a feeder of any kind were Rhinos. Still, I said to myself I'll never hunt behind a fence again, no matter how large.

Fast forward a few years and I plan a trip to Zimbabwe for buffalo. Not knowing it at the time, I booked with a crook and was badly taken. I wrote a report about it on this site which you can find if you dig a little. Lets just say I only saw a couple buffalo in 12 days and ended up shooting a Zebra on the last day which took three years and a lot of dollars to get home because they didn't fill out the paperwork. This trip almost made me avoid Africa in the future. My own fault, I didn't dig deep enough before booking. The references he gave wrote glowing reports, but had I dug deeper I would have found other very disturbing reports.

Now I decided I'm really going to do it right and went with a very well known PH in Mozambique. It was brutal getting to camp but I honestly didn't mind that because it was wild Africa! After 4 plane rides and three truck rides and two boat rides I made it to camp. To say I was pumped was an understatement. We were on buffalo every time we left camp and on the third day we shot an average buffalo which I was told to shoot by the PH. It was the first shooter bull I had ever seen and I took him at his word and shot. Had I known what I know now I wouldn't have shot. So I got my first buffalo. However, after all that travel, we would be out hunting and we would continually see locals walking around, riding bikes, etc. There were poacher snares and gin traps everywhere, and we even caught some poachers while out on a hunt. It was 115 degrees and of course no air conditioning, but after the second night we were given a small battery operated fan which at the time was wonderful!. I was in "wild" Africa but I saw more people on this trip than on my other two trips and far more than my trip in SA. The animals seemed to be accustomed to seeing humans and really didn't react in the same spooky manner that they did in SA.

Now I decide I'm really going to go overboard, do my homework, spend more money than I had before and book with a very well known PH in Zambia. We land at the airport and a PH is there to pick us up but not our PH. On the way to camp I ask if our PH is in camp and he said no, he was in another country and not feeling well so they wouldn't let him on the plane. No one had taken the time to tell us this even though we all had email and texting and they had know this for some time. Then we get to camp and we go to sight in the rifles. I was going to bring my Blaser R8 but my PH says don't bother, we have a Blaser R8 here in camp with a Swarovski scope that you can use. Well guess what, they forgot to bring the rifle to camp. I now have a CZ. Bad start but we were determined not to let it ruin our trip. The PH we now had was great, hunted hard, long days, for 10 days. Saw tons of buffalo and I mean tons. On one herd I stopped counting at 600 but not one hard bossed bull. Once again, we saw tons of people walking around, hiking riding bikes, farming, etc. Animals seemed accustomed to seeing people and my friend killed an average bull with a bow that allowed us to drive up and get close to so he could get out and shoot. That was the only decent hard bossed bull we saw in ten hard days of hunting. It was his first bull and he was happy. Two days we drove 2 1/2 hours each way to hunt a certain area, so 5 hours of our day was wasted driving. We saw lots of other animals but nothing of trophy quality. Not a decent Impala, warthog, Kudu, etc. My friend did shoot a nice Croc and there was no shortage of Crocs or hippo. I left there after 10 days and didn't fire a shot. I honestly had a great time hunting with the PH and would hunt with him again anytime, but not in that area. There is nothing we could have done any differently to give ourselves a better chance. It just wasn't in the cards for me on this trip and that is hunting.

So now I'm eating my words and going back to SA on another large fenced area this May. This one is 50,000 acres. Hunting with a young PH who's family has been in the business but has had mostly European clients and wants to break into the American market. I chose to go back to SA for several reasons. The first being, while I like to see the villages and meet the local people I don't like running into them while I'm hunting. I don't like all the poaching that goes on in many of the wild areas and not being able to find decent trophy quality no matter how hard you hunt. To be honest, it feels more wild to me in SA than it does in some of the other so called wild areas. Animals seem more wary because they are hunted, you don't waste time driving to distant areas to hunt, and trophy quality and cost are better. I want to say, money factors in to all my decisions as I'm a retired school principal so when I take these trips it is because I've saved to take them. If I had unlimited funds sure I'd go to Tanzania or some of the other places, but I just can't justify double the cost and believe me I've tried. I know this is going to rub people the wrong way, and some are going to say if you'd done your homework you would have had better hunts. Believe me I did my homework. The guy in Zim was a crook and a very slick crook who conned many people. The others were just tough luck.

I'm writing this to see if any of you feel the same way as I am beginning to feel. Many of the "wild" areas aren't really that wild, and if you choose the right place SA can be a very positive and challenging experience. Believe me I'm not looking for easy. I'll hunt as hard as the PH will allow. I don't need a guarantee to kill something, as I said I had a great time last year in Zambia and I never fired a shot and honestly was never tempted by any of the animals to fire a shot. I would just not like to deal with the extra stuff that you can run into in some of these "wild" areas. I just want to go to an area with a reasonable expectation of finding some quality animals and hunt with someone that will hunt hard and make things enjoyable and at the same time not spend all of my life's savings. Am I the only one who feels this way?

Congratulations, finally somebody that sees that the emperor doesn't wear any clothes! SA is the only place you can hunt sustainable, because of high fences, together with management. What is a fence? Wire isn't the only fence: water is a fence, good grazing is a fence. In the so called Wild Africa they're only harvesting and that's a fact. They put nothing back and don't care about the animals or management, but only the money. The poachers are also trying to make a living in Wild Africa, but don't have the money to buy a concession and the "know how" to put up an outfitter's business. So the reason why there is no fences, is because the governments of those countries own the wildlife and make tons of dollars while the locals only get the meat to eat. That way, they keep their mouths shut. If they put up fences, it will mean the end of wildlife in Africa, because everything will be devoured inbetween those fences. If Africa wasn't that sparsely populated, there would have been no wild animals left. They even made over-Park arrangements with SA to take down our wild game parks' fences to repopulate their wildlife. If anyone bind himself to the truth, he will have to admit it! Any cattle farmer will tell you that you cannot farm sustainable and manageable without fences. Game is the same. Without fences, there is no control and ownership.

My opinion.

 

[Hank2211]

In the so called Wild Africa they're only harvesting and that's a fact. They put nothing back and don't care about the animals or management, but only the money.

Could not disagree more.

Just one example - I’ve hunted Mayo Oldiri concessions in Cameroon - jungle as well as savannah - which they have held for years if not decades. These are wild places by any definition. Through a combination of good management, restricted offtake and and rigorous anti-poaching (I was there and saw it first hand . . .), these areas continue to produce superb trophies - Lord derby and bongo - year after year. The hunting isn’t easy (the hardest hunting I’ve ever done - my hunt reports are here on AH) but success rates are very high.

My opinion.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

must say i think the op of this thread said it pretty well
do agree with many others too
i may have a slightly different outlook to many other hunters and outfitters for that matter

i have hunted, not taken people hunting, hunted for myself my own hunts in the following places
south africa-limpopo-grew up hunting on low fence cattle farms with "free roaming" game, impala, kudu, warthog
south africa- southern free state- low fence sheep farms with"free roaming" game, springbuck, blesbuck, mountain reedbuck, black wildebeest
south africa-kalahari- for CBL lions
zimbabwe- border of gonarezhou-rundu river area, for elephant, croc, hippo
namibia- erongo crater, damraland area, for springbuck, mountain zebra, damara dik dik, oryx
scotland- beauly, for red stag
germany- southern parts, roe buck and wild boar
poland- far north near Gdansk, some areas in middle all the way down to Cisna in the very southern point , roe buck, wild boar, red deer
Czechoslovakia- middle hunted for Mouflon
austria- Fontanella, for Chamois

i may have missed a few?

now with this personal hunting experience i have drawn one conclusion that i always stand by.
"when in rome, do as the romans do"

this has quite a widespread meaning, but in my opinion it means this
listen to your "local" guide he knows whats going on.
if in that area they have best success sitting in a high seat, then do that
if you need to walk up mountains then do that
if you have to hunt at night then do that
do whatever it takes, and enjoy yourself doing it
it can be hard at times even life threatening, but its way better then doing a million other things!!!
ive been pulling cruisers out of flooding rivers at night in a downpour , to sitting in snow -30 deg c waiting for a f#cking beaver, to having a vehicle frozen into the ice after being in a high seat for 12 hours, to scaling icy snowy mountains, walking 15km in 45 deg c heat.

yes there will be some cockups along the way and dishonest people and lying guides and shitty areas etc etc. but hay we still hunting.

so it it better hunting in SA or "wild africa". neither honestly as long as you are hunting
they all different!!!! and cannot be compared.

remember this my friends, one mans shit is another mans champagne.
my idea of a great hunt is different to the next guys.
this is why i try and judge each client on his own, his own ability, personality,expecatations, health, passed experience etc and make that hunt the best it can possibly be.

looking forward.... to my next "hunting experience"

 

[Frederik]

Last August as we were tracking some dugga boys about 10km into the jess we encountered lion tracks on top of the buffalo tracks (realized why they were super vigilant). You are not going to see that at a fenced RSA farm.

2015 me and and bunch of good friends of mine were hunting buffalo cows in a fenced property bordering Kruger there was a few of us that saw lion tracks over buffalo tracks.

Please note this was fenced area/farm not open to Kruger although bordering it they have resident lions there.
December 2022 on De Klerk Safaris in North west province fenced CBL hunt 3 buffalo bulls chasing the lioness into a tree.

Where I hunt in Limpopo most of the time I find fresh leopard track and brown hyena tracks and thats on most properties.

Gerry,

Thank you for the honest post about hunting fence or no fence.
With the exception of Selous and population boom of Africa there is very little areas left that you will not see any local population and its only going to get worse.

Some wild places the game is very awake due to poaching and over hunting and some areas they are more relaxed. Some big properties in SA where there is little hunting pressure it will be the same relaxed game or it could be that the leopards are doing their rounds and game can be very edgy.

 

[geoff rath]

Good and bad opportunities are everywhere… I’ve hunted wide open free range spaces that presented less challenge than a 2000 fenced in property… and I’ve hunted 25,000 acre fenced properties where the animals appeared more docile than a typical house pet…

It is all situation dependent… what is the hunter looking to experience, and what is the outfitter willing and capable of providing?

While I do love a nice Texas whitetail hunt… I’ve always found it comical when someone starts down the path of complaining about “high fence” hunting (whether in South Africa or the TX Hill Country… or anywhere else) stating it’s unsportsmanlike, or not challenging, etc… but the same guy is perfectly happy with and completely proud of the 140 class deer he took while sitting in an elevated blind 75 yards from a feeder that holds 600lbs of corn and dispenses 3 meals a day on schedule for the local whitetail herds…

I’d maintain that your typical impala on even a little 500 acre concession is a more challenging “hunt” than most whitetail or hog hunting in Texas…

At least you have to go find the impala…

With the feeder… the whitetail is coming to you at 7am, 11am, and 3pm on the mark

My whole point is we should be fighting about any of this. We need more hunters. Anyway we can get them helps us all. Everyone here is not as sharp as you are or thinks before the speak.

in Kevin's favor, his experience speaks; NOT gainsaying anyone else ...