Hunting SA or "Wild" Africa - Which is Better

[PHOENIX PHIL]

@spike.t going Texan on us it seems:

 

[WAB]

I tell you what....all these places/countries apart from zambia are crap.....just saying

Do you know anyplace decent to hunt in Zambia?

 

[spike.t]

Do you know anyplace decent to hunt in Zambia?

Maybe....possibly.....mmmm......uuhhhhh.....

 

[Frank Cavallo]

Pick up a bow. The fun really starts the last 30 yards, makes fences kind of meaningless...

 

[Flewis]

Must have changed a lot in 30 years.

 

[Scott CWO]

We saw tons of game. Lots of elephant which I totally enjoyed. Lots of buffalo to look at, one really wide bull that was still soft. One bull about 35 inches with very average hard boss. Lots of hippo which we weren't hunting, and lots of Crocs which my partner shot one about 12 feet. Tons of Zebra which none were left on quota. A few small bush buck. One decent size Kudu, probably 53 inches. We saw tons of game, hunted really hard, enjoyed the PH, and had a good time, just no quality animals. Perhaps just bad luck, but I certainly wouldn't go back there unless I wanted a Leopard. There are lots of Leopard there. I don't want anyone to get the idea I didn't have a good hunt, I did. I left there happy for the experience I had. In my three previous trips I had never seen elephants and I was up close to them every day. No big bulls but tons of elephants. Had them in camp at night along with hippo. All good. I'm not that picky about shooting animals. I don't have to see Roland and Ward class animals to pull the trigger. There was simply nothing there that even tempted me.

You went to the wrong part of Zambia and Zim. I saw and took giant quality animals in Kasonso Busanga and Lunga Busanga and not just along the Kafue NP boundary. Pictures are in my report. In Zim, I did extremely well in the SVC and in Mozambique in Coutada 9 and the Niassa Reserve. Talk to references from the year before and ask the outfitter for pictures from the past two years. Fresh pictures are worth a thousand words.

 

[Sue Tidwell]

I'm going to open a can of worms here and I realize that. Before I start I want to say that I'm speaking from my own personal experiences and from talking to others that have hunted both fenced areas in SA and "open" concessions. My conclusion is there is good and bad about both areas and you need to understand this when going to both the fenced and wild areas.

Let me start with the obvious, no matter how large the fenced area, you are still within a fence. No way around that in SA and much of Namibia. My first hunt like many of us was in SA on a large and very well known ranch. When I say large it was right at 40,000 acres. We saw tons of animals, good quality trophies, and the animals were super spooky. They didn't stand there and let you shoot them. We took long hikes, stalked our animals, and shot nice animals. My hunting partner shot a nice average hard boss buffalo with a bow after a long stalk. We walked away very satisfied and we had a great time. The only animals I ever saw at a feeder of any kind were Rhinos. Still, I said to myself I'll never hunt behind a fence again, no matter how large.

Fast forward a few years and I plan a trip to Zimbabwe for buffalo. Not knowing it at the time, I booked with a crook and was badly taken. I wrote a report about it on this site which you can find if you dig a little. Lets just say I only saw a couple buffalo in 12 days and ended up shooting a Zebra on the last day which took three years and a lot of dollars to get home because they didn't fill out the paperwork. This trip almost made me avoid Africa in the future. My own fault, I didn't dig deep enough before booking. The references he gave wrote glowing reports, but had I dug deeper I would have found other very disturbing reports.

Now I decided I'm really going to do it right and went with a very well known PH in Mozambique. It was brutal getting to camp but I honestly didn't mind that because it was wild Africa! After 4 plane rides and three truck rides and two boat rides I made it to camp. To say I was pumped was an understatement. We were on buffalo every time we left camp and on the third day we shot an average buffalo which I was told to shoot by the PH. It was the first shooter bull I had ever seen and I took him at his word and shot. Had I known what I know now I wouldn't have shot. So I got my first buffalo. However, after all that travel, we would be out hunting and we would continually see locals walking around, riding bikes, etc. There were poacher snares and gin traps everywhere, and we even caught some poachers while out on a hunt. It was 115 degrees and of course no air conditioning, but after the second night we were given a small battery operated fan which at the time was wonderful!. I was in "wild" Africa but I saw more people on this trip than on my other two trips and far more than my trip in SA. The animals seemed to be accustomed to seeing humans and really didn't react in the same spooky manner that they did in SA.

Now I decide I'm really going to go overboard, do my homework, spend more money than I had before and book with a very well known PH in Zambia. We land at the airport and a PH is there to pick us up but not our PH. On the way to camp I ask if our PH is in camp and he said no, he was in another country and not feeling well so they wouldn't let him on the plane. No one had taken the time to tell us this even though we all had email and texting and they had know this for some time. Then we get to camp and we go to sight in the rifles. I was going to bring my Blaser R8 but my PH says don't bother, we have a Blaser R8 here in camp with a Swarovski scope that you can use. Well guess what, they forgot to bring the rifle to camp. I now have a CZ. Bad start but we were determined not to let it ruin our trip. The PH we now had was great, hunted hard, long days, for 10 days. Saw tons of buffalo and I mean tons. On one herd I stopped counting at 600 but not one hard bossed bull. Once again, we saw tons of people walking around, hiking riding bikes, farming, etc. Animals seemed accustomed to seeing people and my friend killed an average bull with a bow that allowed us to drive up and get close to so he could get out and shoot. That was the only decent hard bossed bull we saw in ten hard days of hunting. It was his first bull and he was happy. Two days we drove 2 1/2 hours each way to hunt a certain area, so 5 hours of our day was wasted driving. We saw lots of other animals but nothing of trophy quality. Not a decent Impala, warthog, Kudu, etc. My friend did shoot a nice Croc and there was no shortage of Crocs or hippo. I left there after 10 days and didn't fire a shot. I honestly had a great time hunting with the PH and would hunt with him again anytime, but not in that area. There is nothing we could have done any differently to give ourselves a better chance. It just wasn't in the cards for me on this trip and that is hunting.

So now I'm eating my words and going back to SA on another large fenced area this May. This one is 50,000 acres. Hunting with a young PH who's family has been in the business but has had mostly European clients and wants to break into the American market. I chose to go back to SA for several reasons. The first being, while I like to see the villages and meet the local people I don't like running into them while I'm hunting. I don't like all the poaching that goes on in many of the wild areas and not being able to find decent trophy quality no matter how hard you hunt. To be honest, it feels more wild to me in SA than it does in some of the other so called wild areas. Animals seem more wary because they are hunted, you don't waste time driving to distant areas to hunt, and trophy quality and cost are better. I want to say, money factors in to all my decisions as I'm a retired school principal so when I take these trips it is because I've saved to take them. If I had unlimited funds sure I'd go to Tanzania or some of the other places, but I just can't justify double the cost and believe me I've tried. I know this is going to rub people the wrong way, and some are going to say if you'd done your homework you would have had better hunts. Believe me I did my homework. The guy in Zim was a crook and a very slick crook who conned many people. The others were just tough luck.

I'm writing this to see if any of you feel the same way as I am beginning to feel. Many of the "wild" areas aren't really that wild, and if you choose the right place SA can be a very positive and challenging experience. Believe me I'm not looking for easy. I'll hunt as hard as the PH will allow. I don't need a guarantee to kill something, as I said I had a great time last year in Zambia and I never fired a shot and honestly was never tempted by any of the animals to fire a shot. I would just not like to deal with the extra stuff that you can run into in some of these "wild" areas. I just want to go to an area with a reasonable expectation of finding some quality animals and hunt with someone that will hunt hard and make things enjoyable and at the same time not spend all of my life's savings. Am I the only one who feels this way?

@Gerry Addison Thank you for such an honest and interesting post. I really enjoyed it, along with all the feedback from others on the thread. We have had three African experiences now and all three were vastly different. We did things a bit backwards. We went to Tanzania first because it was SUPPOSED to be our one and only time. Well, we all know, that never happens. Next we went to Namibia. Honestly, I was disappointed at first because I had been so spoiled by our first hunt. Lions roaring outside the tent. Lion scat next to our tent window one morning. The nightly shenanigans of hyenas every single night. It was wild wild wild Africa. The first night lying in bed in Namibia, it was dead quiet. I couldn't believe it. I was so disappointed. Plus we were on Waterburg Plateau which is a state park....thus leading me to believe ALL the animals would be there. But there were no elephants, lions, spotted hyenas, zebra, hippo, crocodile, etc. I have to say that Rick's buffalo hunt was unbelievable. The terrain was so thick and we tracked one dug boy over several days for I think almost 30 hours. Rick never got his bull until the 9th day I think. It had me on pins and needles the entire hunt. Once I accepted the difference and more or less mourned the loss of The African Symphony (what I called the sound of the night's in Tanzania), I enjoyed every second of the hunt. It was not what I expected but it was wonderful and unique in its own right. Next, we went to Mozambique. That was amazing too...but in a totally different way. It was the first time that I was exposed to villagers and I loved that part. Of course, they weren't in the hunting grounds. They were waiting for us on shore when we came back from Rick's croc hunt. Each day we had over 100 people waiting for us, many of which were children. I looked so forward to arriving at that beach each afternoon. First, of all it was GREAT to survive a day on the Zambezi River (that was terrifying to me) but I also loved the welcoming party that awaited us. Still, I learned something with each place....and know how better to ask the questions so I know what to expect and am not disappointed. For example, the hunting outfit didn't lie to me in Namibia. I had just assumed that since it was a National Park, all of the animals would be there. Anyway, each time is AMAZING in its own right. Of course, we have been fortunate to have had three great outfitters and PH's that I absolutely adore!

 

[Gerry Addison]

@Gerry Addison Thank you for such an honest and interesting post. I really enjoyed it, along with all the feedback from others on the thread. We have had three African experiences now and all three were vastly different. We did things a bit backwards. We went to Tanzania first because it was SUPPOSED to be our one and only time. Well, we all know, that never happens. Next we went to Namibia. Honestly, I was disappointed at first because I had been so spoiled by our first hunt. Lions roaring outside the tent. Lion scat next to our tent window one morning. The nightly shenanigans of hyenas every single night. It was wild wild wild Africa. The first night lying in bed in Namibia, it was dead quiet. I couldn't believe it. I was so disappointed. Plus we were on Waterburg Plateau which is a state park....thus leading me to believe ALL the animals would be there. But there were no elephants, lions, spotted hyenas, zebra, hippo, crocodile, etc. I have to say that Rick's buffalo hunt was unbelievable. The terrain was so thick and we tracked one dug boy over several days for I think almost 30 hours. Rick never got his bull until the 9th day I think. It had me on pins and needles the entire hunt. Once I accepted the difference and more or less mourned the loss of The African Symphony (what I called the sound of the night's in Tanzania), I enjoyed every second of the hunt. It was not what I expected but it was wonderful and unique in its own right. Next, we went to Mozambique. That was amazing too...but in a totally different way. It was the first time that I was exposed to villagers and I loved that part. Of course, they weren't in the hunting grounds. They were waiting for us on shore when we came back from Rick's croc hunt. Each day we had over 100 people waiting for us, many of which were children. I looked so forward to arriving at that beach each afternoon. First, of all it was GREAT to survive a day on the Zambezi River (that was terrifying to me) but I also loved the welcoming party that awaited us. Still, I learned something with each place....and know how better to ask the questions so I know what to expect and am not disappointed. For example, the hunting outfit didn't lie to me in Namibia. I had just assumed that since it was a National Park, all of the animals would be there. Anyway, each time is AMAZING in its own right. Of course, we have been fortunate to have had three great outfitters and PH's that I absolutely adore!

That was a great post and put it all in perfect perspective. If you go in with preconceived notions you may be disappointed. You have to take each hunt as a different experience and just go with it b

 

[Tanks]

... In the so called Wild Africa they're only harvesting and that's a fact. They put nothing back and don't care about the animals or management, but only the money. The poachers are also trying to make a living in Wild Africa, but don't have the money to buy a concession and the "know how" to put up an outfitter's business. So the reason why there is no fences, is because the governments of those countries own the wildlife and make tons of dollars while the locals only get the meat to eat. That way, they keep their mouths shut.

Any cattle farmer will tell you that you cannot farm sustainable and manageable without fences. Game is the same. Without fences, there is no control and ownership.

My opinion.

I have replied to this "opinion" that is NOT based on fact before. I looked for CMS 2nd quarter newsletter but couldn't find the link.

Here is the link for the most current link of what CMS has been doing including all financials that disputes all the opinion above with facts. From anti-poaching to water projects to local schools etc., etc//

https://mcusercontent.com/09e196b082b781c2dd262f17e/files/e478c63f-bb85-9900-ee0a-e666b1bc42c4/Dapu_end_of_year_2022.pdf

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

So, price being no object (theoretically, of course), where is the "wildest" country and area to hunt in sub-Saharan Africa?

Niassa Special Reserve is in the top 3 of those without a doubt.
I believe some good areas in Zambia (those who hunted the blocks without humans present will name them)
Tanzania also has a couple.
They come at a premium though for a very good reason.

As with any country, if the outfitter has his ducks in a row, there is very little issues in terms of logistics. This includes transfer flights, charters, rifle imports as well as game availability.

My best.

 

[Flewis]

I have hunted both. I don’t say one is better than the other but I do say they are both Africa. That’s good enough for me.

 

[WAB]

Niassa Special Reserve is in the top 3 of those without a doubt.
I believe some good areas in Zambia (those who hunted the blocks without humans present will name them)
Tanzania also has a couple.
They come at a premium though for a very good reason.

As with any country, if the outfitter has his ducks in a row, there is very little issues in terms of logistics. This includes transfer flights, charters, rifle imports as well as game availability.

My best.

I have hunted million acre concessions in the Kalahari in Botswana that are very remote. The Upper Luangwa is another place. I really enjoyed hunting Dande with CMS, but although wild, it is not as remote from human habitation.

The reality is that nowhere in Africa is as remote as going off-grid in Alaska or northern Canada. I say that not as a bad thing, just to help with setting realistic expectations.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

I have hunted million acre concessions in the Kalahari in Botswana that are very remote. The Upper Luangwa is another place. I really enjoyed hunting Dande with CMS, but although wild, it is not as remote from human habitation.

The reality is that nowhere in Africa is as remote as going off-grid in Alaska or northern Canada. I say that not as a bad thing, just to help with setting realistic expectations.

I’ve never been to Alaska so I don’t know if it would “count” as one of the wildest places in Africa.
All I know is a 11,000 000 acre park is pretty large and seriously remote. ;-) wild enough so that you would be lucky to survive a couple nights if stranded out side in the bush without weaponry. But at least you would not die of hypothermia;-)
Another bonus is that Africans build nicer camps too
I get what you are saying though with that in mind there are several million acre hunting areas without human settlements in Africa too.

The temperature thing in Alaska will get me for sure.

My best always.

 

[Pheroze]

Another bonus is that Africans build nicer camps too

I like the pictures I see of the camps. However, so far I have just enjoyed the hospitality in a lodge. I will have to get out more.

Here the weather will kill you before an animal. There I think it's the opposite!

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

I like the pictures I see of the camps. However, so far I have just enjoyed the hospitality in a lodge. I will have to get out more.

Here the weather will kill you before an animal. There I think it's the opposite!

O boy… if it goes under 90 I’m reevaluating life choices!!

 

[Pheroze]

O boy… if it goes under 90 I’m reevaluating life choices!!

You mean this doesn't appeal? Bring mitts!

 

[Frederik]

I have been following Billy Molls Modern Day Mountain Man and some of the areas he hunts is truly spectacular and remote. But I'm on Jaco with this one the weather will be a big obstacle for me and even if the weather is good then the mozzies will make me mad.

Sitting under a tarp while it freezing rain or snow pelts you glassing for animals is not my idea of fun but I suppose if I could experience it one day I will jump for it but will rather buy the clothing that side of the world.
Doubt I'll get the right gear here.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

You mean this doesn't appeal? Bring mitts!
View attachment 512801

It is pretty, make no mistake but my o my…. It’s cold!

 

[WAB]

I’ve never been to Alaska so I don’t know if it would “count” as one of the wildest places in Africa.
All I know is a 11,000 000 acre park is pretty large and seriously remote. ;-) wild enough so that you would be lucky to survive a couple nights if stranded out side in the bush without weaponry. But at least you would not die of hypothermia;-)
Another bonus is that Africans build nicer camps too
I get what you are saying though with that in mind there are several million acre hunting areas without human settlements in Africa too.

The temperature thing in Alaska will get me for sure.

My best always.

I have driven Kenai (South) to Deadhorse (North) a number of times. It’s roughly 18 hours in a relatively straight shot, most of it through wilderness. The road system is extremely limited so most of it can only be accessed by air or boat. However, the comment above is correct, the weather is far more likely to kill you than the critters.

 

[jacques smith]

I just returned from cabin in Nebraska we got a blizzard that put 23-26 inches of new snow in places and wind chills way below zero. We got 4 by 4 pickups stuck and quads breaking through ice. We killed some geese but at what cost? I belief Jaco may have this figured out. As to this thread; simply due some diligence and quit comparing this is best or that is better. It’s all good