45-70 for dangerous game?

[Certus]

I have only owned one .45-70 in my life an old 86 winchester. I would hate like hell having to reload with a charging anything.

To be fair an 1886 with 26” barrel holds 8+1. That’s 4 double rifle reloads, or a full magazine reload on a typical bolt gun. Not too shabby.

No. The 45-70 or 45-90 or 50-110 are not dangerous game calibers. The bullets, the energy are all lacking. Can you kill a buff with one? Yes. But you are putting yourself and others are risk as this is not powerful enough to get the penetration and impact you need to kill dangerous game.

I get it that many do this. I have seen the videos. The latest I saw was a guy in Uganda shooting a buff at about 75 yards. After 6 shots, he used a bolt gun to finish the job.

Leave this caliber at home....

.45-90 is throwing 450gr mono solids at 2100+fps and the .50-110 is pushing 525gr close to 2200fps.

 

[michael458]

The 45-70 or 45-90 or 50-110 are not dangerous game calibers. The bullets, the energy are all lacking.

Not Dangerous game "Calibers"............ .458 and .510 caliber? Not sure about you, but I have killed a hell of a lot of buffalo, hippo and elephant with.458 caliber and .500 caliber..... I have not used .510 caliber, but I have been with and witnessed a hell of a lot of buffalo taken very well with .510 caliber.

I am sorry, but if you cannot even get your "terminology" correct, your ignorance shows.

Bullets and energy are lacking? Bullets are lacking? Energy is a ignorant way to consider some sort of level of power. Bullet mass, weight and velocity are the only two factors involved with this number. The type of bullet, bullet construction, caliber, nothing else is taken into account. It has nothing to do with reality, only a fancy number that looks good on charts. A Round Nose FMJ 500 gr .458 caliber bullet at 2100 fps has the same so called kinetic energy as a 500 gr Swift A at 2100 fps......... This is a undeniable fact. So by Kinetic Energy Standards and Laws, the RN 500 FMJ imparts just as much trauma as a 500 Swift A Frame???? I don't think so. Energy has no bearing on anything.

Bullets are lacking for .458 caliber lever guns and or .510 or .500 caliber lever guns? Best look around again, do a little research on that point, as you are terribly WRONG again. You know we are all ignorant, just about different things, but openly being proud of being ignorant and claiming expertise is another matter. There are many bullets available TODAY, with todays modern bullet tech that allow Lever Cartridges to far surpass what was available only 15 years ago. I know this to be a fact, as I developed, and assisted developing many of them. The current Lever Solids from Cutting Edge Bullets are more than capable of taking all the heavies, and in many cases would out perform some bullets from larger cartridges. I would much rather go to the field with a lesser cartridge, shooting a true and proper designed bullet, than to go to the field with a much larger cartridge and a crap bullet. THE BULLET DOES ALL THE HEAVY LIFTING............

True Story;

We arrived in Camp with 4 shooters, ready to lay waste to Aussie Buffalo herds. Arriving in Camp our Guide/PH was close to tears. "What is wrong with you?" I asked. My man had spent nearly $20,000 on a new double rifle in 500 Nitro Express, that was due to arrive soon. He had backed up all his clients the last few years with a 500 MDM Winchester M70 that truly hammered buffalo into the dirt face first, time and time again. After spending all this money, playing double rifle, he proclaimed that he had two hunters in camp that left just before we arrived, both with 500 Nitro Express rifles and that 500 Nitro Express was useless, it would not kill buffalo at all, he had to shoot every single buffalo they shot to keep it from getting away!!!!!!!!! I looked at one of my shooters, which just happened to be using a 500 Nitro Express and using new 475 gr Raptors at 2400 fps and new 510 CEB Solids at 2350 fps and we started laughing at the expense of our Friend and Guide/PH........... HEH HEH............. OK, slow down, tell us what bullet were these guys using??? He said they used "Hawk Bullets", and they pancaked just under the hide on every buffalo they shot, no penetration and they did not have solids at all to back up.................. I looked at my 500 NE Guy and we smiled, knowing now why 500 NE just can't take buffalo. He was very concerned about my 500 NE Guy, to which I told him, just watch tomorrow and see........... Sure enough, next day, more than one big bull took that 475 Raptor and all they could do is stand, quiver a few seconds, and fall over "Stone Cold Dead" on the spot......... exams showed us that on any broadside or angled shot, every single bullet EXITED, and from entry to exit everything in between was destroyed......mush...........

My son was shooting a 50 B&M Super Short, this is a 1.65 inch .500 caliber cartridge in a tiny 16 inch WSSM action. No scope it weighs 6 lbs and 36 inches, about the same size as a 1885 45/70 guide gun. Shooting 375 Expanding CPS North Forks, 375 CEB and North Fork Solids, and Raptors around 2200 fps, it laid waste to buffalo one after the other, and big body bulls at that. These bullets were designed specifically for this mission, and they performed with extreme prejudice. In fact, my 500 NE guy, and the Guide/PH stated from what they were seeing, it was just as effective on buffalo and buffalo behavior after the shot as the 500 NE was.

Take any "Cartridge" even one that comes up a little short in other areas, and enhance it tremendously with Bullet Technology....... Its all about the Bullet, not the cartridge, not the rifle, its the Bullet that Does all The heavy lifting, choose your bullet wisely, and you will Succeed beyond your expectations. Choose your bullet poorly, and you will fail in your endeavors.

I asked the Guide/PH, "Who told these idiots to use Hawk Bullets?"............ He said that the "Gunsmith" had told them that Hawk bullets were the best for buffalo! The Gunsmith? Hmmmm....OK........ I seriously doubt that "this gunsmith" had ever seen a live buffalo, maybe in the zoo..........

 

[michael458]

Ask any PH - do you support using a 45-70 on buffalo or dangerous game? 100% will say not no but heck no.

Total nonsense....... First, if I have to ask a PH about this, then I am not doing my homework properly. I love all the PH's I have hunted with, and developed very good, and very special relationships with all of them and to this day, good friends all. No disrespect at all, but they are Hunters and they are dam good too........ But most cannot be shooters, not to the extent that some few are. I am a shooter, I am not a hunter....... Thing is, I have never asked for their advice on such matters, I don't need it. On these sort of matters, they ask or consult me. I have never ever once in well over 35 hunts abroad over 20+ years been told that any cartridge I bring do not do so because it is not adequate. Never, not once..... and this includes 45/70 and in many cases my PH's were so enamored with some, and even the guide gun, they wanted to stretch it beyond what I thought was adequate at the time, not because of the cartridge or rifle, but because of the bullets at that point in time.

On one of my first trips with the current 50 B&M, testing the first generation .500 caliber bullets in 2005, I turned down a chance to take 4 elephants........ I did not feel like I had proper designed bullets for that mission. And I was correct at the time. The next year, I slammed two elephant with proper designed solids, and was very successful, even end to end rear to front exiting chest, after passing through the heart.............

Again, and again and again ................. It's the Bullet..............

 

[HankBuck]

Should be as good as a .375 H&H? Maybe, but I have no intention of testing your theory.

DOUG, thats a misuse of the word - “theory”? (as in something never done but possible?). I’ve never done it, but if I limit my understanding only to things I’ve done - I’m gonna be in Your boat. I base my opinion on discussions with 3 PH - two where we discussed in person at Camp and one on the phone. Plus, some of the Bear & deer I’ve shot with .45-70 using even lighter loads - that still “passed thru” 36” of bone, meat, hide, entered & exited, and also the ballistics that are available along with articles others have written. If you’re only familiar with the Cowboy loads or Remington Green/Yellow box - then you are unaware of what Full Power .45-70 loads can do - bullets up to 500 grains and energy up to 3590 foot pounds…these .45-70 loads exceed many of the most common loads that were used on Buffalo in the early 1900s. But, I’m Not going to change your mind and it’s always important to shoot what you have confidence in and “believe” is the right load & rifle for the job. I used a .470 NE and still got less then great results — it seems that the “theory” of placing a bullet in the vitals has some merit too (regardless of caliber!!)

 

[dogcat1]

I still stand by my comments. Another source of info on this subject would be the various writers/hunters/PH's that address this subject in their books. - Craig Boddington in his book on safari rifles, Terry Weiland, John Pondoro Taylor and several others. None recommend or suggest that the 45-70 and those type of cartridges are suitable or fit for purpose dangerous game cartridges. I followed up with two PH's I hunt a lot with about this - both with 20+ years in Zim and other places primarily hunting DG. Both said they would be "extremely hesitant to hunt with someone using these calibers". In their experience, the .375 HH is adequate but prefer a client that can accurately shoot whatever they bring as long as it packs enough punch to properly take down the intended quarry.

If you hunt plains game in South Africa or Namibia or wherever, use whatever you can shoot well. It does not really matter as long as you use a good quality bullet and can place that bullet.

One poster suggested that "it is the bullet!". Well yes, it is, but only if the bullet is in the right spot. With the selection we have today, why cripple yourself or the game by using some bullet better used for cowboy competition or long range competitions??? Use a bonded bullet like an A-Frame or TSX of some others. Use solids on follow up shots. Leave the home made bullets at home or the bullets made for target shooting....

Anyway, to each his own.

 

[HankBuck]

I still stand by my comments. Another source of info on this subject would be the various writers/hunters/PH's that address this subject in their books. - Craig Boddington in his book on safari rifles, Terry Weiland, John Pondoro Taylor and several others. None recommend or suggest that the 45-70 and those type of cartridges are suitable or fit for purpose dangerous game cartridges. I followed up with two PH's I hunt a lot with about this - both with 20+ years in Zim and other places primarily hunting DG. Both said they would be "extremely hesitant to hunt with someone using these calibers". In their experience, the .375 HH is adequate but prefer a client that can accurately shoot whatever they bring as long as it packs enough punch to properly take down the intended quarry.

If you hunt plains game in South Africa or Namibia or wherever, use whatever you can shoot well. It does not really matter as long as you use a good quality bullet and can place that bullet.

One poster suggested that "it is the bullet!". Well yes, it is, but only if the bullet is in the right spot. With the selection we have today, why cripple yourself or the game by using some bullet better used for cowboy competition or long range competitions??? Use a bonded bullet like an A-Frame or TSX of some others. Use solids on follow up shots. Leave the home made bullets at home or the bullets made for target shooting....

Anyway, to each his own.

Dogcat1, we certainly agree on “Bullet placement” and that trumps everything else. Perhaps I’m making to fine of a point but in your last paragraph (above) you mention “..using some bullet better used for Cowboy Competition etc..?” I think this is where we agree but are disconnected. .45-70 Cowboy Action bullets & ammo are a poor choice for any Hunting - too slow at 1200-1400fps, and have zero power - they are good at knocking bowling pins off a table at 50 feet. The ammo by Buffalo Bore and other full power loads features hard cast bullets and velocity over 2000 fps — generating very “Africa like” power. I can’t argue with you that Your preferred loads are not good - they are Great but there are other good loads for Buffalo being omitted. Good hunting to You as you certainly are putting serious thought into what you are shooting and why — that usually gets good results.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

He does! Have a BLR being rechambered to a fun little 375wsm now. Cherish my 99 but also love my 1895s (marlin and win). Debating trying a new Ruger/Marlin....

Bet you didn't kill that elephant with a .45-70 or any other.lever gun.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

"Ask any PH - do you support using a 45-70 on buffalo or dangerous game? 100% will say not no but heck no."

100%? Really? I did ask mine (he is also the owner). He gave me his blessing, as I discussed loads with him. On my second trip, I hunted with a different PH; he also gave it his blessing. I have had conversations on here with other sponsor PHs, who have told me they are good with it on some species of DG. Sooo... not sure where you are getting that 100% from?

"...on some species of DG." The .45-70 is probably fine for leopard and even lion. It would still not be my.choice for buffalo, and I can't believe any PH would permit its use on elephant even if it was.legal, which mostly it isn't.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

"...on some species of DG." The .45-70 is probably fine for leopard and even lion. It would still not be my.choice for buffalo, and I can't believe any PH would permit its use on elephant even if it was.legal, which mostly it isn't.

I have no knowledge of the particulars on elephant, as it's not been an interest to this point, for me. Some day? I'll form opinions when and if I get there.

I have had specific discussions with sponsors (more than a few; I would have to go back and actually count) of this site about buffalo, lion, croc, and hippo with my .45-70. I have not yet had one tell me that they would not give it their stamp of approval - with the right bullet/loads and with the restrictions I would assume in choosing to use it. All have been a thumbs-up - another reason I found that one fellow's "100%" assertion exceedingly misplaced.

 

[michael458]

I see many of you do not understand that bullet tech has progressed a very long way just in the last 12-15 years. This goes for ALL cartridges, not just 45/70s..... The development of proper designed solids and trauma inflicting bullets has enhanced cartridges like the 45/70 to boost their capabilities beyond just merely adequate. Using todays bullet tech, the 45/70 can easily outperform larger .458 caliber cartridges, using 100 year old bullet tech.

With the selection we have today, why cripple yourself or the game by using some bullet better used for cowboy competition or long range competitions??? Use a bonded bullet like an A-Frame or TSX of some others. Use solids on follow up shots. Leave the home made bullets at home or the bullets made for target shooting..

I don't believe from this statement, that you have a clue as to what might be available for cartridges such as 45/70........... Homemade Bullets? Really? You must be thinking of some sort of cast lead bullets, I can assure you that those are definitely NOT suitable much for anything. Cowboy Shooting? Really? How ignorant you are.... lets see if you can be educated, although I really have some serious concerns about that.............

Do not believe for a second that I am promoting 45/70 or other limited cartridges as the newest greatest Dangerous Game cartridges and better than anything you can get! That is not the case. But that said, those that choose do do so, can enhance their cartridges to the levels they will be successful in their endeavors by choosing proper designed bullets. I am going to show you some very serious buffalo, hippo, and yes, even elephant capable bullets, available in 45/70.

People, Elephant have been successfully taken with 44 magnum handguns! A 45/70 is far beyond those capabilities...... JD Jones is a friend of mine, surely some of you know who JD is? JD has taken elephant with 44 magnum and less .......... Others have used larger calibers, .452 and .500.... using proper designed bullets. And being careful taking the shots.

In 2002 I was in Zimbabwe, hunting elephant/buffalo. I shot an elephant with 458 Lott. I also had a Guide Gun along in 45/70, but my loads were 420 gr Cast Performance at 1920 fps or so. This Cast bullet is not a proper buffalo bullet, and certainly not elephant by any stretch. My PH at the time was just enamored with the little Guide Gun. He talked me into buffalo, but the bullet was not up to par, we were successful, but we were short on bullet at the time! After taking elephant with the 458 Lott, and even then a less than desirable RN Barnes 500 gr Solid, he wanted to test the little guide gun, we did at 10 yards, side brain shot, bullet recovered a couple of inches other side of the brain...... Not enough penetration.......A cast bullet just won't get you there...........Too soft, they shear, they flow.

This was actually the entire elephant head, not just the skull as labeled......

Now, these are how these bullets tested here on my range......

The test results show that these are NOT CAPABLE of buffalo, or damn near anything else...... The shots on buffalo show they really are a poor choice, and the test on the elephant head was dismal at best..........

Even though, my PH in Zimbabwe wanted us to test on a live elephant! Yes, ........... I refused, and told him these bullets were not up to that mission............. We continued to hunt elephant, using the 458 Lott and those barely capable RN Solids.........

So if this is the type of "Homemade" bullets you refer to, then by all means, I would concur with that assessment...........And, any common available 45/70 jacketed or soft from the old days, is not capable either............

I think I am getting a little long here, so I will end this post on that note........ and forth coming will be one on bullets that ARE CAPABLE...............

 

[IvW]

Quite simple a 350 or even 405gr .458 cast bullet could not come close to a 300gr or 340gr or 350gr .375 bullet.....just not even remotely possible......

 

[michael458]

Quite simple a 350 or even 405gr .458 cast bullet could not come close to a 300gr or 340gr or 350gr .375 bullet.....just not even remotely possible......

Or most anything else, I would have left the .375 part off.......... This OLD bullet tech in 45/70 really is not up to par, it is not capable of buffalo, hippo, or elephant, no argument from me, I concur 100%.

The best bullet of the day, in the early 2000s was a Flat Nose 350 Hornady, it was about as premium as you got..... this bullet was orginally designed for 458 Winchester at those velocities, and Hornady simple gave the bullet a flat nose for lever guns......It would not even expand at all at impacts less than 1650 fps....... current production has changed, and it is softer....... Really none of the common jacked bullets available are capable of anything beyond Zombies and deer....... I really have not kept up with current Premiums, but even most of those in the 350-400 gr weight class would not have enough penetration to be buffalo capable.

OK, we are going to assume that if we buffalo hunt with 45/70, we are going to be using a Lever Gun. I love lever guns, always have, but one must understand the limitations of what we consider traditional lever guns, such as the Winchester M1886, Marlin 1895 and such as that, in larger caliber we have the Winchester/Browning M71s........... The immediate limiting factor is simply Pressure. We do not recommend more than 45000 PSI in the Marlin, and I believe you can push the 1886/M71s to around 50000 PSI. Yes, you can go beyond that, all levers are not created equal, some will go further and not immediately lock up, but at some point you are going to break something with continued prolonged use of over pressure loads.........

This keeps your velocities limited. Simple as that.

The other limiting factor is not very well known. You won't read this in a book or magazine article by the common writers, you won't see this on a TV show by your favorite all knowing celebrity PH Hunter, or what have you. The reason you ask...... They don't know what I am about to tell you, they do not understand or know very little about Bullet Technology and design, in other words, they are ignorant as crap.

We are going to show you one of the factors of Solid Terminal Penetration. This is Factor #4 of 8 total known factors as of today. Factor #4 deals with the forward Nose Projection above the top band of a solid bullet. Flat nose solid bullets, in aqueous medium or animal tissue, do indeed ride inside a Bubble, created by the flat nose of the solid. This bubble extends out beyond the bullet and basically allows the bullet to penetrate deeper because of less resistance.

A lever cartridge must have a "shorter" nose projection, so overall length of the cartridge will work and fit through the magazine and action. The same bullet in a bolt gun can take a "Longer" nose projection above the top band. So what?...... a 400 gr bullet is a 400 gr bullet, right? No, it is not. The Shorter Nose projection means the base of the bullet is longer, more ass behind the nose! The bubble starts to collapse on the base of the bullet, causing drag, slowing it down. The longer nose projection for the bolt gun, or single shot, what have you, pushes the bubble further out, the bullet has less ass, and the bubble collapses behind the rear of the bullet and not one the base. There fore the longer nose projection above the bands will penetrate deeper than the shorter nose projection. You won't find that in a book by your favorite gun writer or PH..........

Don't believe that;

Here are some Properly designed solids in .458 caliber......... You see the two Lever Solids on the left and other bolt gun solids on the right..........Notice the Nose portion of the bullet above the top band.

Now here is a test of the longer nose projection 325 gr CEB Solid

And here is a test in 45/70 of the 325 gr CEB Lever Solid;

Oh, you say, the Longer Nose projection was going faster, and in the case of CEB #13 Solids, yes, velocity is a factor in depth of penetration, and trauma up front, however, even a lever solid at much more velocity does not penetrate any deeper than in the 45/70.......... That bubble is collapsing on the base, slowing it down faster and effecting depth of penetration, regardless of velocity.

OK you say, but what about a heavier bullet say 400 gr .458?

A 400 Lever Solid in 45/70.........

A Lever Solid in 458 B&M........at higher velocity

And a new 400 CEB Solid I just had done with a .600 nose projection........ Now, I had another run done recently, that I have not tested yet, that has a .700 nose projection...... will see if .700 runs deeper than .600.... I don't think it will, but this is why we test.........

Know your cartridge and rifle limitations and capabilities............

 

[HankBuck]

"...on some species of DG." The .45-70 is probably fine for leopard and even lion. It would still not be my.choice for buffalo, and I can't believe any PH would permit its use on elephant even if it was.legal, which mostly it isn't.

DOUG, I don’t think anyone is promoting the .45-70 for Elephant (other then “it could” succeed - doesn’t mean it “should“ be used) and the discussion seemed focused on Buffalo and the .45-70 as a very viable round for that game. You disagree and what You hunt buffalo with is Your business and You would select something else…I agree with your right to choose.

 

[michael458]

Here we have been testing bullets for 30+ years, we know our test medium well, wet print. We know that bullet behavior in this test medium is exactly the same as in animal tissue, exception being bone material. We have a good "rule of thumb" considering depth of penetration between the test medium and animal tissue, because we have dug literally 100s on top of 100s of different bullets out of animal tissue, and this includes solids.

For any bullet to be capable of BUFFALO, it has to penetrate a minimum of 20 inches in the test medium..... End of Story......... If a Trauma Inflicting bullet can penetrate 20 inches of my test medium, then it is buffalo capable. 20 Inches is the Magic Number.

Most Conventional expanding 45/70 bullets will not meet this minimum requirement. Fact is, I really am not aware of one that will , even premiums..........

So just how in the hell can you take a buffalo with 45/70........... Well now, lets consider some Non Conventional Means...............

Here we see at the top a Lehigh Extreme Penetrator, CEB Solids, CEB Raptors and just above a North Fork CPS...... the North Fork CPS for 45/70s, there is a 325 and a 350 gr and they actually have some expansion and this really makes them into another animal............

Both of these, the 350 Gr and the 325 Gr go beyond 20 inches, and they are indeed buffalo capable.
Naturally BACKED UP by SOLIDS............

Now one that I have not seen tried, but tested is the Lehigh Extremes, these are, well, EXTREME to say the least. They work, they do what they say they do, they behave as advertised. I have not tested in 45/70 but have done so in one of my Super Shorts. I am quite sure the penetration is there with these, along with the trauma....... I would consider the 325s, but even the 225s are just extremely interesting, they are buffalo capable, in the test work conducted, I would test in 45/70 before going afield..........

Now, since you are still not quite sure of what you are looking at, here is some of your Premium Conventionals tested in larger .458 caliber cartridges, typical buffalo capable bullets.................in what you would consider, typical buffalo caliber cartridges..............

Personally, if I were hunting buffalo or hippo today with 45/70, I would prefer the 400 Lever Solid over everything else..................It has more than enough penetration from any reasonble angle to accomplish the mission, and BTW, it has more than enough penetration even for Elephant if one so chooses......... No, I would choose something else, but that does not mean the 45/70 is not capable in the right hands, with a shooter that understands and can deal with the limitations.

That is all I have for you......... Like it or not..........

 

[TTundra]

Bet you didn't kill that elephant with a .45-70 or any other.lever gun.

That hunt was done with a A2 Hannibal in the 'dreaded' 460 Weatherby shooting 'inferior' Hornady DGS and DGX bonded bullets. I do love that caliber and rifle and find it's capabilities nothing short of impressive.

That said, I would hunt DG with a lever gun in a caliber and cartridge tailored for the target and plan to do so in the future.

 

[Certus]

@michael458 now that’s a well written and detailed post! Reckon you could load some to equal velocity to compare the penetration? I realise you point out they are different and I’m not saying that’s why one penetrated more than the other, I just mean because it would be interesting to show the bubble collapse thing with every factor being equal except the nose length. If you do this please post it up as I’m sure many would be interested. Not even as a .45-70 vs others thing, just as a “here’s a factor of bullet design and how it relates to penetration that may be overlooked” - I never thought it would matter that much but your numbers show fairly large differences.

 

[dogcat1]

Michael458 proves the point or at least lays out the data why I said that the 45-70 IS NOT a dangerous game cartridge. Choose what you like but for the life of me why would anyone spend $15,000 or more to go to Africa to hunt buffalo and take a sub-optimum cartridge.... Use the best gun/cartridge suited for the game that you can.... I struggle to understand why so much defensiveness over this issue.

 

[HWL]

Ok, I am not a reloader or a ph. I did some searches to see if this question has been asked before and didn't see any. So here is my question. My sad and I where discussing DG rifles the other day. He has a newer model marlin lever action in 45-70. Could you make up a dangerous game load for it? I know you can get the bullets from Hornady and the like. With modern powders I feel you could get the velocity needed. The current hornady leverevolution in 45-70 is a 325gr bullet @ 2050 fps and 3032 lbs of energy. That is close to a .416 ruger.(2400 fps 5000 ft lbs with a 400 gr bullet) I would not use a factory load because of the bullet. This would be hand load only. So thoughts? Is it even legal to use?

DG is not all the same.
Ele, Buff & Hippo for sure need more power and different bullets than lion or leopard.
Have a look at Zimbabwes rules.
May be your .45-70 Government can meet this regulations for the cats.
But an unexperienced American with a lever gun, always is a nice snack for a lion.
Keep in mind, hunting down there, every moment the unexpected may sneak around the corner.
Use enough gun.....

HWL

 

[BeeMaa]

Michael458 proves the point or at least lays out the data why I said that the 45-70 IS NOT a dangerous game cartridge. Choose what you like but for the life of me why would anyone spend $15,000 or more to go to Africa to hunt buffalo and take a sub-optimum cartridge.... Use the best gun/cartridge suited for the game that you can.... I struggle to understand why so much defensiveness over this issue.

I struggle to understand why you still care. Imagine how much more simple it would be if you didn’t.

 

[HankBuck]

DG is not all the same.
Ele, Buff & Hippo for sure need more power and different bullets than lion or leopard.
Have a look at Zimbabwes rules.
May be your .45-70 Government can meet this regulations for the cats.
But an unexperienced American with a lever gun, always is a nice snack for a lion.
Keep in mind, hunting down there, every moment the unexpected may sneak around the corner.
Use enough gun.....

HWL

HWL sounds more like an exciting African Hunting “Novel” then objective facts on the .45-70. And of course all the Buffalo killed by .45-70s - under the watchful eye of many PHs - strongly disputes that it is an “inadequate“ caliber.