45-70 for dangerous game?

[1dirthawker]

I don't know if a brown bear is considered "dangerous game". If it is, then i have some small experience with the 45-70 on dangerous game.

i have a 45-70, stainless and laminate stock that i extended the magazine on (they make em like that now) and i can state with full confidence that with a full mag of good bullets, i am just about untouchable via a brown bear. that gun is very fast to fire, (had a client shoot one shot at a brown bear, i shot 3 times before he fired again) and reliable. it is accurate and with good bullets just smashes them. (i am shooting a 458 win at em now)

the 45-70 is capable of moving a 400 gr bullet at 2000 fps. my 450-400 is moving a 400 gr bullet at 2100 fps and has looooong been considered a great buffalo cartridge. craig boddington called it "perfect" for cape buffalo. I have never shot a buffalo with a 45-70, and only one with a 450-400. so my experience with DG in africa is minuscule. but, i suspect that a good solid in the 45-70 will not bounce off a buffalo. i thought @michael458 did a great job explaining how the bullet tech has improved the performance of "marginal" calibers.

are there "better" or more powerful rifles, yup. will they kill a buffalo "deader" nope. if you want a stopping rifle, it would be better to have a 416 rigby or bigger, but, is a 375 h&h a stopping rifle?

all this to say, a 45-70 will kill any DG animal. is it as good or ideal as a 450 (same caliber) as a 458 win or 450 nitro, naaaah. will it get the job done, i bet it would. as @michael458 noted earlier, muzzle energy does not kill game, long holes thru vitals get it done. would it be my first pick on shooting an elephant, nope. would it do on a cape buffalo, yup. is it ideal.....what does ideal look like?

 

[freefall]

freefall,
I know nothing about the BLR extractor other than superficial inspection.
Can you shed some light on this ?
I figgered same extractor for .300 WinMag and .458 WinMag.
Seems you are saying the BLR extractor is crap ?

Did some googling.
Weaknesses noted.
BLR discontinued.
Oh well, might find one somewhere, someday, or the plaything is just a pipedream that will not be smoked.

I had extractor issues with my BLR 81 in .358 Win. Why I parted with it, otherwise I loved that little booger!

 

[hoytcanon]

This maybe?

View attachment 588933

That is funny... lol.

 

[HankBuck]

I am hoping one day to have a BLR .458 WinMag.
Looking for the stainless, take-down, lightweight BLR in .300 WinMag for the conversion.
Lever-action .458 WinMag.
YIPPEE-KI-YAY

RIFLECRANK, I own two BLR’s (.223 & .243) other then both having the “worst triggers” - sloppy, lots of travel, they are reliable hunting rifles, light, accurate (1.5” MOA) and have a very secure detachable clip. I would say for close range shooting (150 yrds or less) good hunting rifle but the sloppy triggers eliminates them from consistent long range accuracy. I sent one back to Browning to have them adjust the trigger — BIG waste of time, the sent it back with comment “Trigger was checked and found to be ‘In Spec’..” they did Nothing. Several gunsmiths also told me “nothing I can do to significantly improve trigger”. I would Not want that type of a trigger on a heavy magnum rifle - cold cause a ‘Flinch’.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

I don't know if a brown bear is considered "dangerous game". If it is, then i have some small experience with the 45-70 on dangerous game.

i have a 45-70, stainless and laminate stock that i extended the magazine on (they make em like that now) and i can state with full confidence that with a full mag of good bullets, i am just about untouchable via a brown bear. that gun is very fast to fire, (had a client shoot one shot at a brown bear, i shot 3 times before he fired again) and reliable. it is accurate and with good bullets just smashes them. (i am shooting a 458 win at em now)

the 45-70 is capable of moving a 400 gr bullet at 2000 fps. my 450-400 is moving a 400 gr bullet at 2100 fps and has looooong been considered a great buffalo cartridge. craig boddington called it "perfect" for cape buffalo. I have never shot a buffalo with a 45-70, and only one with a 450-400. so my experience with DG in africa is minuscule. but, i suspect that a good solid in the 45-70 will not bounce off a buffalo. i thought @michael458 did a great job explaining how the bullet tech has improved the performance of "marginal" calibers.

are there "better" or more powerful rifles, yup. will they kill a buffalo "deader" nope. if you want a stopping rifle, it would be better to have a 416 rigby or bigger, but, is a 375 h&h a stopping rifle?

all this to say, a 45-70 will kill any DG animal. is it as good or ideal as a 450 (same caliber) as a 458 win or 450 nitro, naaaah. will it get the job done, i bet it would. as @michael458 noted earlier, muzzle energy does not kill game, long holes thru vitals get it done. would it be my first pick on shooting an elephant, nope. would it do on a cape buffalo, yup. is it ideal.....what does ideal look like?

I thought that Craig Boddington said that the .45-70 was under powered for cape buffalo. I could be wrong, but I don't recall seeing any pictures of him with a dead buff while holding a .45-70.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

"I thought that Craig Boddington said that the .45-70 was under powered for cape buffalo. I could be wrong, but I don't recall seeing any pictures of him with a dead buff while holding a .45-70."

Which is to say he also has an opinion, and that it does not conform to the opinions of everyone else - pretty much what this thread has chronicled.

I've never seen him pose with a .338 Marlin and a dead bull moose either, but I'm here to tell you it's right handy at dispatching them.

The folks who have said "No! No! Don't do it!"... How many own and shoot a .45-70? How many load for it? How many have actually hunted with one?

 

[Doug Hamilton]

"I thought that Craig Boddington said that the .45-70 was under powered for cape buffalo. I could be wrong, but I don't recall seeing any pictures of him with a dead buff while holding a .45-70."

Which is to say he also has an opinion, and that it does not conform to the opinions of everyone else - pretty much what this thread has chronicled.

I've never seen him pose with a .338 Marlin and a dead bull moose either, but I'm here to tell you it's right handy at dispatching them.

The folks who have said "No! No! Don't do it!"... How many own and shoot a .45-70? How many load for it? How many have actually hunted with one?

None of which is relevant to what I said. I had replied to someone that said Craig Boddington had said that the .45-70 " is perfect for cape buffalo." I do not believe he did say.that.
I never have said that anyone else should not use a .45-70 for cape buffalo. I have only said that it would not be my choice, which it isn't.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

None of which is relevant to what I said. I had replied to someone that said Craig Boddington had said that the .45-70 " is perfect for cape buffalo." I do not believe he did say.that.
I never have said that anyone else should not use a .45-70 for cape buffalo. I have only said that it would not be my choice, which it isn't.

Doug.... My apologies good sir. I missed that particular post.

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

I can't understand the desire to take a marginal cartridge on a DG hunt...

I'm pretty good with a blowgun, but geeze...




If you can afford a safari, you can afford a .375 H&H.

Realistically it seems like anyone who can afford a buffalo hunt can probably afford a rifle in any of the larger DG cartridges.

I don’t think that’s the motivation for the few who want to use a 45-70. Same as archery, pistol, or muzzleloader.

 

[1dirthawker]

I thought that Craig Boddington said that the .45-70 was under powered for cape buffalo. I could be wrong, but I don't recall seeing any pictures of him with a dead buff while holding a .45-70.

NOT what i said. what i said was:

my 450-400 is moving a 400 gr bullet at 2100 fps and has looooong been considered a great buffalo cartridge. craig boddington called it "perfect" for cape buffalo.

again, a 100 fps difference (in the tropical load, the 450-400 shoots 400 gr @ 2050 fps) or less will likely not be that big of a deal in the real world.

so, don't use the 45-70. no harm, no foul.

 

[HankBuck]

Doug.... My apologies good sir. I missed that particular post.

TUNDRA (or anyone else reading these “.45-70 posts”). Does anyone define their opinion by what Craig Boddington says? Is the “opinion” of an Outdoor Writer more highly regarded then an average PH with 5 or 10 years active experience ? I know Boddingtons writings and own some of his books - like the way he writes and seems honest & frank. But, and it’s a big BUT, he gets paid to “write” and month after month having to come up with something “interesting” is a constant pressure….there isn’t that much NEW to write about, soooo you need to either make something up - exxaggerate something - OR express a strong & distinct point of view about something —- ANYTHING to get noticed. Every great outdoor writer has done this: Jack O’Connor promoting the .270 as a great long range big game cartridge (deer, Antelope & adequate Elk) then Elmer Keith taking to opposite view and writing “the .270 is a Marginal coyote round”. There just isn’t that much “new” to write about. I would Not dismiss Boddington and believe he has great knowledge but I would weigh a PH opinion as much or More.

 

[Rafiki]

Walmart's going to sell a bunch of lever guns after this thread is finally killed off, if ever.

 

[F. Vaccaro]

Walmart's going to sell a bunch of lever guns after this thread is finally killed off, if ever.

The more the merrier…

 

[Certus]

Walmart's going to sell a bunch of lever guns after this thread is finally killed off, if ever.

If the thread ever ends with the .45-70 being acceptable then perhaps we start the .45-60 thread

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I don't know why some people are skeptical of its use on buffalo. Chris Pratt proved its effectiveness in T-Rexes, so buff are clearly a cinch.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I don't know why some people are skeptical of its use on buffalo. Chris Pratt proved its effectiveness in T-Rexes, so buff are clearly a cinch.

View attachment 589352

I don't know why some people are skeptical of its use on buffalo. Chris Pratt proved its effectiveness in T-Rexes, so buff are clearly a cinch.

View attachment 589352

Bucket of candy, funny.

I will repeat what. I have said before when things go to crap I want the most powerful gun available.

Something to think about. When I am hunting buff in elephant country there is alway 1 solid .470 in my double. There has been more than one PH properly clapped, leaving a client to fend for himself.
In free ranging hunts this is a real possibility.
Lon

 

[degoins]

Lets just get real about this once and for all.......the 45-70 is just not proper form for Africa.......PERIOD!!!

 

[Doug Hamilton]

If the thread ever ends with the .45-70 being acceptable then perhaps we start the .45-60 thread

Why not the .45 Colt? Because it's the same caliber as the .458 Lott, I'm sure there are some on here that would defend its use on buffalo.

 

[michael458]

Why not the .45 Colt? Because it's the same caliber as the .458 Lott, I'm sure there are some on here that would defend its use on buffalo.

I happen to like 45 Colt quite a bit. I have taken 45 Colt lever guns to Africa many times, along with handguns back in the day. But not same caliber as 458 Lott, which is .458 caliber of course, and 45 Colt is .452......... I can tell you now, it was rather comforting in our many travels in several different countries in Africa to have that little tiny 8 shot 45 Colt along for the ride. Next best thing to having an, well you know, one of those awful evil black guns....... I won't say it in public.

What I will tell you is that 45 Colt is pretty anemic on most game larger than 250 lbs, but with 8 rounds, you fill them full of holes until you solve the issue. In those days about the best we had was a big cast performance bullet, and just like the 45/70s, they were not up for the job. Ok fine for those very thin skinned critters you might need in a defense scenario, but in the game fields they came up lacking in many cases..................

Today, Bullet Technology succeeds once again with some incredible Cartridge Enhancement. As we showed earlier with 45/70, we can also enhance the little 45 Colt as well.............

Handgun Hunters have used 45 Colt and 454 Casull in the field for many years now, and even some Handgun hunters have taken buffalo with them multiple times, with success. Much of this was done even before proper bullets were available, like you see above.

Is it common use? Of course not. Should Common folks attempt it? Of course not.

 

[JakeH]

the 45-70 is capable of moving a 400 gr bullet at 2000 fps. my 450-400 is moving a 400 gr bullet at 2100 fps and has looooong been considered a great buffalo cartridge.

I still have yet to see anyone intelligently argue against this point.