Who's Trophy is it anyway? Wounded Animals

[Hunt anything]

@Hunt anything - you must have some very good Self Control and handled that situation well. I can’t think of any reason for someone to tie up your retriever as you described and especially when they could hear you “whistling” for your dog.

It was a little more confrontational than I described.

 

[HankBuck]

Yeah, when that guy's dog tears into yours you will just stand there and say "Oh please, poochy, stop that." Some strange dog rips into my dog/kid, he would be lucky to only get the boot, especially if I'm standing there with a gun in my hands. I considered myself lucky that she just got kicked. Not sure I wouldn't have done worse. We don't have time to think in those situations. Thankful his reactions were what they were. Only a fool would have attempted to escalate the situation. But hey HankBuck, if the shoe fits ...

A few years back I got roped into filling a vacancy on my brother's boss's outfitted goose hunt to SK. I brought my two Labs and Fr Britt as we were already in Montana bird hunting. The other guy in the party showed up with a useless two year-old Chesapeak that had a very unpredictable disposition. I knew something was wrong when it jumped out of the truck tied to a logging chain. I had to leave my dogs in the vehicle almost the entire trip. A couple of times I needed to get Opal out to make water retrieves (his dog was less than spotty retreiver). I told him, "You better tie that dog up." He said it would be okay. "Well, if it turns out not 'okay' you will have a dead dog to take home." He put it back in his truck. Then that night he ties the damn thing up right outside the apartment door so my dogs can't get out to do their business. Hell, I was nervous walking past that grumpy mutt. "Get your head out of your ass or get down the road with that gawdam dog." Fortunately, our useless outfitter finally stepped in. I learned the following year the dog disappeared one night chasing deer and never returned. One of the neighbors doubtless fixed the problem.

@Ontario Hunter - hey I wasn’t there and you have all the details about how someone else “kicked your dog”, maybe the dog deserved it as I’ve encountered some poorly behaved & untrained dogs in the field and owners that could Not handle them or just didn’t care, maybe the guys were Bigger then you, aggressive & looking for trouble and in that case a “retreat is better then valor”. I’m not 2nd guessing your judgement - you were the one that had to suffer the consequences of any heroic decisions and maybe you made the right call…only you know.

 

[HankBuck]

It was a little more confrontational than I described.

@Hunt anything - I’ll bet it was — sounds like a nasty event and I would be happy to get myself AND My Dog out of that Safely….. It would also have “wrecked” that day’s hunt for me.

 

[Rare Breed]

An honest outfitter won’t charge the 2nd hunter.

I was once the 2nd hunter. The Outfitter said that’s an animal the previous hunter wounded. Would you mind putting it down, or letting me so we can send him the trophy? Now whether or not the outfitter told that hunter it was finished by another hunter or they “found it” I don’t know. It was only a day or two later w/ 1 broken leg on a hard quartering shot that missed all vitals and ended up in the guts.

I like how this was resolved!!!

 

[mark-hunter]

In europe.
First ball, last (bird) shot.

This means, big game wounded by rifle goes to those who spilled first blood.

In hunting birds, the bird belongs to hunter who brought it down.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

In North America it’s the person who inflicts the mortal wound. There are reports of someone causing the last flesh wound or shooting downed game to try and claim it as theirs.

In Africa or anywhere a trophy fee is due upon drawing blood, the trophy goes to whoever drew first blood.

In the Western states where I've hunted (a lot) the animal belongs to whoever shoots the animal and inflicts a serious injury first. I have heard that in the East, where I have never hunted, it belongs to whoever kills it. I can't say that I understand this thinking. If someone else has wounded/crippled an animal and I find it, I'll certainly kill it but I have no desire to claim or tag it.

A few years ago a friend and I leased a piece of property for mule deer. I spotted a buck move into a patch of brush. As I moved down on a stalk the buck tried to sneak out. I went down on one knee, aimed and started to squeeze the trigger, a rifle shot sent the buck out on a stot (jumping run). A guy on the next property, across a canyon was shooting. He shit again and I saw hair fly. I hot on the buck at about a hundred yards and got off a shot. The bullet caught him through a ham and through the guts. The guy across the canyon shot again. My next shot broke the neck. That would be the buck not the idiot about three hundred yards away on another property. He yelled, "Good shot! I'm coming over!) As I made my way to the deer, my buddy moved down from above. He asked if I had done all that shooting. I told him that I had only shot twice, but he could see that I was upset (okay, pissed!). I told him that I had seen hair fly on the guys second shot. I said that if that guy shot the deer first I didn't want it, but I couldn't reward him by letting him have the buck. I knew where I had hit the buck, but I couldn't find the shot that cut hair. Finally, I found the bullet mark. The bullet had cut a line across the back, barely grooving the skin. I squeezed the mark and could barely get a trace of blood. I told my friend that I was taking the buck, and, " when the other guy that shot at it gets over here he and I are coming to an understanding."

When the other hunter showed up, I told him to be clear, it was my buck. He agreed. I asked why he was shooting at a buck on our property. He said, "I saw the buck going out and I didn't think you saw it. I got excited, and the next thing I knew I was shooting at it!"

So this time, no harm, no foul, but if he had hit an inch lower things would have gotten really awkward.

 

[375Fox]

In the Western states where I've hunted (a lot) the animal belongs to whoever shoots the animal and inflicts a serious injury first. I have heard that in the East, where I have never hunted, it belongs to whoever kills it. I can't say that I understand this thinking. If someone else has wounded/crippled an animal and I find it, I'll certainly kill it but I have no desire to claim or tag it.

A few years ago a friend and I leased a piece of property for mule deer. I spotted a buck move into a patch of brush. As I moved down on a stalk the buck tried to sneak out. I went down on one knee, aimed and started to squeeze the trigger, a rifle shot sent the buck out on a stot (jumping run). A guy on the next property, across a canyon was shooting. He shit again and I saw hair fly. I hot on the buck at about a hundred yards and got off a shot. The bullet caught him through a ham and through the guts. The guy across the canyon shot again. My next shot broke the neck. That would be the buck not the idiot about three hundred yards away on another property. He yelled, "Good shot! I'm coming over!) As I made my way to the deer, my buddy moved down from above. He asked if I had done all that shooting. I told him that I had only shot twice, but he could see that I was upset (okay, pissed!). I told him that I had seen hair fly on the guys second shot. I said that if that guy shot the deer first I didn't want it, but I couldn't reward him by letting him have the buck. I knew where I had hit the buck, but I couldn't find the shot that cut hair. Finally, I found the bullet mark. The bullet had cut a line across the back, barely grooving the skin. I squeezed the mark and could barely get a trace of blood. I told my friend that I was taking the buck, and, " when the other guy that shot at it gets over here he and I are coming to an understanding."

When the other hunter showed up, I told him to be clear, it was my buck. He agreed. I asked why he was shooting at a buck on our property. He said, "I saw the buck going out and I didn't think you saw it. I got excited, and the next thing I knew I was shooting at it!"

So this time, no harm, no foul, but if he had hit an inch lower things would have gotten really awkward.

Is that actually written into law anywhere or just in practice? Really in the Eastern US it belongs to whoever puts a tag on it first. There is nothing in the rule book of who it belongs to if both hit the deer somewhere, but if a deer is wounded on property A and runs to property B where another hunter shoots, that hunter is likely going to have a tag on it before he ever even sees another hunter. I wouldn’t let a wounded buck walk past my stand assuming another hunter will be along to finish it off shortly and if they did (depending on size of trophy and who has permission to hunt that land) there’d be a similar discussion to what you described to who claims the deer. The difference between east and west that I see is the east has more hunters and generally guaranteed tags hunting on small properties. The west has less hunters in field because of draw system and hunt bigger areas.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Is that actually written into law anywhere or just in practice? Really in the Eastern US it belongs to whoever puts a tag on it first. There is nothing in the rule book of who it belongs to if both hit the deer somewhere, but if a deer is wounded on property A and runs to property B where another hunter shoots, that hunter is likely going to have a tag on it before he ever even sees another hunter. I wouldn’t let a wounded buck walk past my stand assuming another hunter will be along to finish it off shortly and if they did (depending on size of trophy and who has permission to hunt that land) there’d be a similar discussion to what you described to who claims the deer. The difference between east and west that I see is the east has more hunters and generally guaranteed tags hunting on small properties. The west has less hunters in field because of draw system and hunt bigger areas.

Not law, local custom. If somebody finds a dead deer that they didn't kill, but they tag it, legally it will belong to them. It's if the hunter that shot it shows up, things can get ,"real Western" in a hurry. I heard a story about that very thing happening with an elk. Nobody got shot, but it was ugly. I can not understand wanting a dead animal so badly that anyone that didn't shoot it first would want to tag it.

 

[Ridge Runner]

@Doug Hamilton

In the Western states where I've hunted (a lot) the animal belongs to whoever shoots the animal and inflicts a serious injury first. I have heard that in the East, where I have never hunted, it belongs to whoever kills it. I can't say that I understand this thinking. If someone else has wounded/crippled an animal and I find it, I'll certainly kill it but I have no desire to claim or tag it.

My guess it depends on where one is hunting East of the Mississippi River.

On private land if a hunter shoots an animal on another property by law/regulations (Tennessee, Ohio, North Carolina) the hunter must obtain permission from the property owner to recover the animal. Same goes if the hunter shoots an animal and that animal goes onto another property before expiring.

There are nice and nasty property owners. The nicest ones will let you recover the animal without questions, but don't be surprised if the landowner wants to check things out to make sure the hunter actually shot it where they claim. The nastiest landowners will tell the hunter to leave the animal lay.

Hunting public lands things can get a "little dicier" to say the least. I didn't see the guy that stole my deer, but another hunter did. Had another hunter a couple of days earlier, tried to claim he thought the deer I shot was a turkey. He started to bring his crossbow up to shoot and claim my deer. Then he saw me, my bow at the ready, and my revolver (44 mag) on my hip. He lowered his crossbow and went back to where he set up. There are many other stories of hunters having their deer taken, some where the other hunter brandished or outright pointed their gun at the hunter who actually killed the animal.

Hence why I always carry a sidearm when I go into the woods regardless of the season; archery, muzzleloader, or gun, small game, big game, waterfowl or upland bird.

There are also stories of hunters shooting cows, mules, and goats, the hunter claiming the animal was a deer.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

@Doug Hamilton


My guess it depends on where one is hunting East of the Mississippi River.

On private land if a hunter shoots an animal on another property by law/regulations (Tennessee, Ohio, North Carolina) the hunter must obtain permission from the property owner to recover the animal. Same goes if the hunter shoots an animal and that animal goes onto another property before expiring.

There are nice and nasty property owners. The nicest ones will let you recover the animal without questions, but don't be surprised if the landowner wants to check things out to make sure the hunter actually shot it where they claim. The nastiest landowners will tell the hunter to leave the animal lay.

Hunting public lands things can get a "little dicier" to say the least. I didn't see the guy that stole my deer, but another hunter did. Had another hunter a couple of days earlier, tried to claim he thought the deer I shot was a turkey. He started to bring his crossbow up to shoot and claim my deer. Then he saw me, my bow at the ready, and my revolver (44 mag) on my hip. He lowered his crossbow and went back to where he set up. There are many other stories of hunters having their deer taken, some where the other hunter brandished or outright pointed their gun at the hunter who actually killed the animal.

Hence why I always carry a sidearm when I go into the woods regardless of the season; archery, muzzleloader, or gun, small game, big game, waterfowl or upland bird.

There are also stories of hunters shooting cows, mules, and goats, the hunter claiming the animal was a deer.

I think pretty much everywhere if an animal is wounded and crosses onto privately owned property the hunter must have the landowner's permission to enter and recover the animal. Some have even asked the game warden to intervene and ask the landowner, but in the end it is up to him to allow it or not.

We have all heard the stories of hunters killing domestic animals by mistake, but I don't know how many of these stories are true. In.one area where I hunted a beef cow was shot and killed. It happened at night with an AK-47. Clearly not an accident by a deer hunter. Since the property was part of Washington's "Feel Free to Hunt" program, many of us donated funds to help the rancher recoup his loss.

 

[375Fox]

I think pretty much everywhere if an animal is wounded and crosses onto privately owned property the hunter must have the landowner's permission to enter and recover the animal. Some have even asked the game warden to intervene and ask the landowner, but in the end it is up to him to allow it or not.

We have all heard the stories of hunters killing domestic animals by mistake, but I don't know how many of these stories are true. In.one area where I hunted a beef cow was shot and killed. It happened at night with an AK-47. Clearly not an accident by a deer hunter. Since the property was part of Washington's "Feel Free to Hunt" program, many of us donated funds to help the rancher recoup his loss.

If there are trespassing laws in Pennsylvania I’ve never heard an instance they’ve been applied to hunting. Saying that as a frustrated landowner. It has gotten somewhat better each year as there are less hunters in woods though. I wouldn’t hesitate to cross a border to follow a wounded deer and wouldn’t object to anyone following a wounded deer across my land but it is frustrating to routinely find hunters pushing your land or setting stand up on the border to overlook your land. Trespassing while hunting is not taken seriously here.

 

[Hunt anything]

@Doug Hamilton


My guess it depends on where one is hunting East of the Mississippi River.

On private land if a hunter shoots an animal on another property by law/regulations (Tennessee, Ohio, North Carolina) the hunter must obtain permission from the property owner to recover the animal. Same goes if the hunter shoots an animal and that animal goes onto another property before expiring.

There are nice and nasty property owners. The nicest ones will let you recover the animal without questions, but don't be surprised if the landowner wants to check things out to make sure the hunter actually shot it where they claim. The nastiest landowners will tell the hunter to leave the animal lay.

Hunting public lands things can get a "little dicier" to say the least. I didn't see the guy that stole my deer, but another hunter did. Had another hunter a couple of days earlier, tried to claim he thought the deer I shot was a turkey. He started to bring his crossbow up to shoot and claim my deer. Then he saw me, my bow at the ready, and my revolver (44 mag) on my hip. He lowered his crossbow and went back to where he set up. There are many other stories of hunters having their deer taken, some where the other hunter brandished or outright pointed their gun at the hunter who actually killed the animal.

Hence why I always carry a sidearm when I go into the woods regardless of the season; archery, muzzleloader, or gun, small game, big game, waterfowl or upland bird.

There are also stories of hunters shooting cows, mules, and goats, the hunter claiming the animal was a deer.

Same in Alabama, it’s illegal to trespass to recover a wounded or dead animal, you must get permission from the landowner.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

In the Western states where I've hunted (a lot) the animal belongs to whoever shoots the animal and inflicts a serious injury first. I have heard that in the East, where I have never hunted, it belongs to whoever kills it. I can't say that I understand this thinking. If someone else has wounded/crippled an animal and I find it, I'll certainly kill it but I have no desire to claim or tag it.

A few years ago a friend and I leased a piece of property for mule deer. I spotted a buck move into a patch of brush. As I moved down on a stalk the buck tried to sneak out. I went down on one knee, aimed and started to squeeze the trigger, a rifle shot sent the buck out on a stot (jumping run). A guy on the next property, across a canyon was shooting. He shit again and I saw hair fly. I hot on the buck at about a hundred yards and got off a shot. The bullet caught him through a ham and through the guts. The guy across the canyon shot again. My next shot broke the neck. That would be the buck not the idiot about three hundred yards away on another property. He yelled, "Good shot! I'm coming over!) As I made my way to the deer, my buddy moved down from above. He asked if I had done all that shooting. I told him that I had only shot twice, but he could see that I was upset (okay, pissed!). I told him that I had seen hair fly on the guys second shot. I said that if that guy shot the deer first I didn't want it, but I couldn't reward him by letting him have the buck. I knew where I had hit the buck, but I couldn't find the shot that cut hair. Finally, I found the bullet mark. The bullet had cut a line across the back, barely grooving the skin. I squeezed the mark and could barely get a trace of blood. I told my friend that I was taking the buck, and, " when the other guy that shot at it gets over here he and I are coming to an understanding."

When the other hunter showed up, I told him to be clear, it was my buck. He agreed. I asked why he was shooting at a buck on our property. He said, "I saw the buck going out and I didn't think you saw it. I got excited, and the next thing I knew I was shooting at it!"

So this time, no harm, no foul, but if he had hit an inch lower things would have gotten really awkward.

If he was shooting onto your property and didn’t have permission he should’ve been cited, regardless if he hit or didn’t hit the deer.

What’s your definition of serious that isn’t also mortal? I hunt the west a lot as well and would go by mortal if ever in that situation, except maybe with a kid.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

If he was shooting onto your property and didn’t have permission he should’ve been cited, regardless if he hit or didn’t hit the deer.

What’s your definition of serious that isn’t also mortal? I hunt the west a lot as well and would go by mortal if ever in that situation, except maybe with a kid.

A hit in a leg that breaks bone may or may not be mortal. It is certainly serious. A year or two later, on that same piece of property, my buddy and I were hunting that same piece of property. I heard a shot and thought it would be my friend shooting. A radio call showed that it wasn't. A while later I saw a small buck making his way down off the ridge in my direction. I could see that he was.limping but could not see the actual injury. I saw that it was a forked-horn and could see no eye guards. Mule deer in Washington must have at least three points on one side, and an eye guard can be counted. At about 200 yards he turned and dropped of the two-track. I could see then that a back leg was broken above the knee and there was a lot of blood. Obviously a bullet wound. I was debating whether to kill him even though I was pretty sure he wasn't legal. I just hated seeing him suffer. Then he jumped the fence and was no longer on our lease. Game over. As he made his way up the hill I saw him stop and then fall down. He got back up and kept going until he was out of sight. I went down to where he crossed the fence and there was a huge amount of fresh blood. Disgusted, I started to make my way back to where my truck was. Going out ahead of me were two guys. Since they weren't with us they were poaching. I called out to them and said that I wanted to talk to them. They sped up trying to get out. I then called out, "Hey, did you guys lose a buck?" That got an answer, "Yeah, did you find him?" I told them that I knew where he was, so come down and talk to me. They and my buddy Wii got to me at about the same time. I told them I would show them where they crossed out of our property, but I then asked to see their hunting licenses. Once I knew their names and addresses I showed them where the buck had gone and it was up to them to.make it right and off the went. As soon as they crossed into the next property, I called the T at and Wildlife "Poaching Hot Line" and gave them all of the information. I do not know what happened after that. I can only hope that they suffered big fines.

 

[HankBuck]

If there are trespassing laws in Pennsylvania I’ve never heard an instance they’ve been applied to hunting. Saying that as a frustrated landowner. It has gotten somewhat better each year as there are less hunters in woods though. I wouldn’t hesitate to cross a border to follow a wounded deer and wouldn’t object to anyone following a wounded deer across my land but it is frustrating to routinely find hunters pushing your land or setting stand up on the border to overlook your land. Trespassing while hunting is not taken seriously here.

@375Fox - If you your OWN Hunting land in Pennsylvania, you are a lucky guy, I’ve always liked PA and hunting there, the “tradition” of deer hunting was great (they Closed Schools Opening Day of Deer Season !!). I started deer hunting in the late 1970s-1980s and would drive from NJ to PA just because I could find “decent” WMAs open to public hunting - and you could use a Rifle in PA where as NJ was regulated to Shotguns & Buckshot Only back then. I found hunters in PA very “aggressive” when it came to claiming a downed deer, was “warned” once by a Hunter (that had set up very close to my stand) on Opening Day that “if you shoot a deer and don’t kill it - it belongs to whoever puts the Last-Bullet-in-it”. That definitely put me on edge that day as I knew he was only 100 yrds from me (could see his Orange) and would have a clear shot at most deer I would see. Fortunately I saw a good Spike buck and dropped it with a Neck Shot….No arguments, No fist fight, and that was only my 2nd buck ever -so that “spike” was a Trophy to Me !
I was also warned Never to go on private property after a wounded buck or even to retrieve a dead buck, some property owners would prosecute you regardless for trespass and there was nothing the PA Game Wardens could do to prevent them from doing so - you also would Not get your dead buck back….same in NJ, the Landowner does Not have to let a Hunter retrieve his dead-deer and Wardens cannot make the Landowner allow it.
I now own my own hunting land, post it, and don’t allow anyone but my family to hunt it - will prosecute anyone I catch hunting/ trespassing “1st time” with No warnings as my land is clearly posted every 100 feet with aluminum signs. If anyone claims to have “wounded a deer” and comes up to my house for permission to look for/retrieve it - I would go with them, and if found AND the blood trail can be “back tracked” and prove it was initially shot off my property then they are welcome to that animal…..if Not, Warden would be called and a possible complaint would be filed. Now, I know all my neighbors and we All maintain our properties the same way - “respect” boundary lines. I’ve Not had trespassing incidents since the first year i purchased the Land - “word” gets around.

 

[HookMeUpII]

I had this come up in RSA. There were 2 kids in camp that were bowhunting exclusively and sort of acted like real idiots. They were probably early mid-20's. They were just real buffoons and started to irritate people. Well, their bowhunting was on par with their manners and decorum. One of them wounded a blesbok with an arrow. It was walking around with an arrow sticking out of it. As such, it was super spooky and was bolting at any danger (supposedly).

We ended up running across it leaving the property to hunt another. My PH pointed it out. It was about a 300-400 yd shot. I was shooting 300WM. My PH said I had been shooting great and if I wanted to do them a favor I could give it a shot and maybe be the "hero." I started to get setup but then asked him "what if I wound it again." He said "Well, if you wound it again, then it's our problem." He saw me hesitate and reminded me I didn't have to do it. I declined.

It was difficult because as a hunter because ethically I should have probably taken the shot. I probably could have made it.

In my mind, I wasn't going to clean up one of those buffoons messes and then risk causing myself a headache if I missed. Rock and a hard place, basically.

Looking back, I consider myself a good shot and I probably could have made it. If it was 100-150 I probably would have taken the shot and done "the right thing." Looking back, even a not so great shot on a blesbok with 300WM probably would have been fatal anywhere in the midsection.

I imagine policies may differ, place to place. Their policy was next one to draw blood takes the responsibility, from what I understand.

 

[375Fox]

I had this come up in RSA. There were 2 kids in camp that were bowhunting exclusively and sort of acted like real idiots. They were probably early mid-20's. They were just real buffoons and started to irritate people. Well, their bowhunting was on par with their manners and decorum. One of them wounded a blesbok with an arrow. It was walking around with an arrow sticking out of it. As such, it was super spooky and was bolting at any danger (supposedly).

We ended up running across it leaving the property to hunt another. My PH pointed it out. It was about a 300-400 yd shot. I was shooting 300WM. My PH said I had been shooting great and if I wanted to do them a favor I could give it a shot and maybe be the "hero." I started to get setup but then asked him "what if I wound it again." He said "Well, if you wound it again, then it's our problem." He saw me hesitate and reminded me I didn't have to do it. I declined.

It was difficult because as a hunter because ethically I should have probably taken the shot. I probably could have made it.

In my mind, I wasn't going to clean up one of those buffoons messes and then risk causing myself a headache if I missed. Rock and a hard place, basically.

Looking back, I consider myself a good shot and I probably could have made it. If it was 100-150 I probably would have taken the shot and done "the right thing." Looking back, even a not so great shot on a blesbok with 300WM probably would have been fatal anywhere in the midsection.

I imagine policies may differ, place to place. Their policy was next one to draw blood takes the responsibility, from what I understand.

That makes absolutely no sense to me. It was theirs as soon as they drew blood either a trophy fee due or animal off their package. If a company has a policy like that. I can only assume they are pushing too many hunters through especially if the hunter that wounded it is still in camp.

 

[HookMeUpII]

That makes absolutely no sense to me. It was theirs as soon as they drew blood either a trophy fee due or animal off their package. If a company has a policy like that. I can only assume they are pushing too many hunters though.

You're correct about that. Draw blood = your animal. But how many people are you going to convince to then notch another blesbok with an arrow through it? Wasn't exactly like a 55" kudu walking around wounded. Furthermore, is it then just a free for all for whoever brings it down?

Probably gets pretty complicated. I'm not qualified to answer this question.

I may get flack for it, but I did not exactly feel "charitable" to either of the buffoons. Had it been a young kid who made a mistake? Maybe an older person who had failing eyesight/abilities? Maybe I'd have taken the shot. To me it felt like a mess they should have cleaned up themselves. As bad as I felt for the animal, it's not my job to fix everyone else's mistakes.

If it was public land, my land, etc. I'd have taken the shot.

Not sure about the too many hunters comment. Doesn't seem like that really ties in.

I do know the respective PH's/trackers did put in a ton of work trying to get it. They were top notch. A member of my party wounded an impala. Took them a day and a half but they got it. Exact animal that was shot.