Who's Trophy is it anyway? Wounded Animals

[Ridge Runner]

An honest outfitter won’t charge the 2nd hunter.

I was once the 2nd hunter. The Outfitter said that’s an animal the previous hunter wounded. Would you mind putting it down, or letting me so we can send him the trophy? Now whether or not the outfitter told that hunter it was finished by another hunter or they “found it” I don’t know. It was only a day or two later w/ 1 broken leg on a hard quartering shot that missed all vitals and ended up in the guts.

That’s an outfitter I would like to hunt with’

Unfortunately the Case in point, I was referring to the outfitter/PH is the polar opposite of the outfitter @Mtn_Infantry had.

The animal was Cape Buff in Zimbabwe.

The implications I got, via our conversations and his actions, the outfitter/PH had no intentions on looking for the previous client's buff and subsequently putting the buff out of its misery.

Sadly we never found the previous client's buff.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Unfortunately the Case in point, I was referring to the outfitter/PH is the polar opposite of the outfitter @Mtn_Infantry had.

The animal was Cape Buff in Zimbabwe.

The implications I got, via our conversations and his actions, the outfitter/PH had no intentions on looking for the previous client's buff and subsequently putting the buff out of its misery.

Sadly we never found the previous client's buff.

Unfortunately I can see this and understand it if the outfitter/PH thought it would’ve come at the possible expense of Hunter #2’s safari/hunt experience being anything less than the best. Now I also believe there are a lot of hunters who respect the animal enough to say ok let’s try to find him.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Unfortunately I can see this and understand it if the outfitter/PH thought it would’ve come at the possible expense of Hunter #2’s safari/hunt experience being anything less than the best. Now I also believe there are a lot of hunters who respect the animal enough to say ok let’s try to find him.

In 1983 I was in Zimbabwe. PH Ian Lennox came into the camp with an old guy that was hunting with him. They had found a buffalo bull with a wire snare around his front leg and dragging a piece of log. The outfitter had no more buffalo on quota. Ian told the hunter to take him if he wanted, and he would straighten things out with the game department. Leaving the injured buffalo was inhumane and a danger to the local people. The old man killed the bull. The game department had no issue with putting the buffalo down and ending his suffering, the client got a buffalo, and everyone can feel that they did the right thing. I never asked who paid for the bull or if the hunter got to keep it, but to me it was people doing the right thing.

About three weeks before this a worker at the ranch where we stayed had surprised a buffalo bull with a wire snare around his leg. The bull punched the worker in the guts, spilling intestines. The poor guy had to hold himself together and walk about a mile back to the house. He told the property owners what had happened. Then he died. No one knows if this was the same buffalo.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Unfortunately I can see this and understand it if the outfitter/PH thought it would’ve come at the possible expense of Hunter #2’s safari/hunt experience being anything less than the best. Now I also believe there are a lot of hunters who respect the animal enough to say ok let’s try to find him.

The details are in my Zimbabwe hunt report.

This particular outfitter/PH I had, only had himself in mind.

There are good to lexcellent outfitter/PHs and PHs that actually want their clients to have a good experience.

As to the OP's question and experience he had a PH wanting to make things right.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

In 1983 I was in Zimbabwe. PH Ian Lennox came into the camp with an old guy that was hunting with him. They had found a buffalo bull with a wire snare around his front leg and dragging a piece of log. The outfitter had no more buffalo on quota. Ian told the hunter to take him if he wanted, and he would straighten things out with the game department. Leaving the injured buffalo was inhumane and a danger to the local people. The old man killed the bull. The game department had no issue with putting the buffalo down and ending his suffering, the client got a buffalo, and everyone can feel that they did the right thing. I never asked who paid for the bull or if the hunter got to keep it, but to me it was people doing the right thing.

About three weeks before this a worker at the ranch where we stayed had surprised a buffalo bull with a wire snare around his leg. The bull punched the worker in the guts, spilling intestines. The poor guy had to hold himself together and walk about a mile back to the house. He told the property owners what had happened. Then he died. No one knows if this was the same buffalo.

I think most of us hunters would have shot as the old man had. I think there’s a difference in spending your safari actively pursing/targeting another hunters wounded animal as your primary target vs coming across it by chance and shooting it, or pursuing it if blood/spoor is found on another stalk.

 

[HUNTROMANIA]

În România we have diferent rules for big game and small game on who is claiming the game.
1. On big game the one who give the first shot who is possible to cause the death of the animal. That means vital organs or blood vessels, arteries.
2. On small game is the one who is killing the animal, bird.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

If some slob hunter wants to claim a bird that I've hit or killed, I'm not going to fight over it. Just means I can keep hunting longer. How badly can someone want to gut and pluck birds? He's back at the motel room cleaning his limit of birds while I'm still in the field hunting with my dogs. Thank you very much, fool!

 

[Hunter-Habib]

In Africa & Asia, it goes to whoever drew first blood. I don't necessarily agree with this philosophy but it is what it is.

 

[spike.t]

Great question @hunting anything.

And some good responses so far. Don't want to hijack your OP but add more to it.

Case in point:

A client wounds an animal, pays for that animal and then pays and kills a second same species animal, client leaves without him or the outfitter/PH putting the first wounded animal down.

Next client shows up. The new client and outfitter/PH fond fresh blood on the first day of the new client's hunt, outfitter/Ph claims it's probably from the previous client's wounded animal.

Against the new client's hunting ethics the outfitter/PH has no intentions of hunting or killing the wounded animal.

By sheer coincidence the new client kills the previous client's wounded animal.

Whose animal is it?

New client considers the animal belongs to the previous client since the previous client paid for the animal.

Outfitter/PH considers it the new client's trophy animal with the intentions of being paid twice for one animal.

If that ph/ outfitter didn't do everything to find the animal and finish it, or when as you say in this theoretical situation go after it when finding blood with the next client, and either of them finishing the animal then he is a prick...plus no way is that animal the new clients trophy even if he finishes it...or have to pay for it....that's bullshit

 

[DieJager]

Please let us know which outfitters let wounded game out there for a slow painful dead. All because a new hunter arrives and money comes first.

That way I can certainly and definitely say I will not hunt with that outfitter. Everything that can be done has to be done to find a wounded animal. For the animals sake as well for the danger that animal poses to humans.

 

[DieJager]

When hunting with de Klerk in South Africa I wounded a black Wildebeest. Only nicked one lung at the very end of it in the direct of the gut.

Never felt as sick to my stomach as those couple of hours searching for the animal. We almost lost track. Luck would have it that I spotted some blood and the amazing tracker did the rest. She was already laying down when she tried to stand up again and I made the kill shot.

Light was running out fast. I think I would not have slept if we did not find her before dark.

I can not fathom that someone just walks away not doing everything he can to end the suffering of an animal he has wounded.

 

[cperso]

Great question @hunting anything.

And some good responses so far. Don't want to hijack your OP but add more to it.

Case in point:

A client wounds an animal, pays for that animal and then pays and kills a second same species animal, client leaves without him or the outfitter/PH putting the first wounded animal down.

Next client shows up. The new client and outfitter/PH fond fresh blood on the first day of the new client's hunt, outfitter/Ph claims it's probably from the previous client's wounded animal.

Against the new client's hunting ethics the outfitter/PH has no intentions of hunting or killing the wounded animal.

By sheer coincidence the new client kills the previous client's wounded animal.

Whose animal is it?

New client considers the animal belongs to the previous client since the previous client paid for the animal.

Outfitter/PH considers it the new client's trophy animal with the intentions of being paid twice for one animal.

Great question.
This scenario is exactly what I've also been thinking about.

 

[375Fox]

But, I hope that it’s rare an outfitter needs to put down the clients animal.
Yes if you completely fudged the shot or shots and have shown you are in poor form or the PH has to stop some DG to keep everyone safe but I hope most clients get to complete their own hunt and finish the animal if subsequent shots are required.

It becomes much more common with DG. Any doubt on the shot, whether that be the shooter, the angle, brush, etc, it’s a common occurrence the PH will shoot too to avoid a situation becoming dangerous. I’ve only had PHs back me up on giraffe (to help ensure dropped close to road) and elephant. Both discussed before hunt.

 

[Hunt anything]

Where I grew up in Northern California, the buck belongs to whoever drew first blood. Over the years, I have been able to fun show several bucks and a hog that had been hit by other hunters. Never any question as to who claims it.

Oddly enough, an incident in Northern California is what prompted my question. In 1989 I was hunting black tails in the Yolla Bollas. I had already killed my buck so I was along with my friend when a buck came sneaking by. He killed the buck and while we were gutting the buck another guy came along and said it was his as he had wounded it, we looked everywhere and found no wound and the deer was moving normally. A huge argument ensued and I finally found a crease on the buck hind leg just above the hoof where the other hunter hit . When the other hunter saw where he hit it, he relented and helped us get the buck to the horses. Everyone was happy but it could’ve ended so much worse.

 

[AZDAVE]

For me it is whoever draw first blood any where in the world. In 2018 we came across a herd of Blesbok that had one who had been wounded the week before when someone tried a head shot and hit the animal in the jaw. He was clearly going down hill, my PH asked me to shot the animal and put it out of it misery. I shot him at 265 meters and we took a couple pictures. The client was very thankful when the PH let him know his trophy was found.

 

[Ridge Runner]

If that ph/ outfitter didn't do everything to find the animal and finish it, or when as you say in this theoretical situation go after it when finding blood with the next client, and either of them finishing the animal then he is a prick...plus no way is that animal the new clients trophy even if he finishes it...or have to pay for it....that's bullshit

Wished it was theoretical. Only part I changed, keeping with the OP, was the ending where the client shot the animal.

Name of outfitter and the extremely bad trip I had with him is in the forum's Hunt Reports section.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Please let us know which outfitters let wounded game out there for a slow painful dead. All because a new hunter arrives and money comes first.

That way I can certainly and definitely say I will not hunt with that outfitter. Everything that can be done has to be done to find a wounded animal. For the animals sake as well for the danger that animal poses to humans.

The outfitter/PH was Lloyd Yeatman he advertised his outfit as StanBeth Ltd Liab Co/ Shangani Safaris Hunt, Zimbabwe.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Over sixty years of hunting and I only "lost" one animal. I was tracking a small herd of elk in new snow. Just as I peered over a bench in lodgepole timber, a cow stood up in her bed. Cows were legal. When I shot the place exploded. She stepped out of sight. I missed! A spike bull ran past me and I took a shot. It kept running. Well, crap. I walked over to his tracks and there was blood and hair. Dug out ammo from my pack and reloaded. But before taking off on the track, something told me to look around. And there was the cow laying dead. A perfect boiler room placement but she never acted like she was hit. So I gutted her and dragged her by the ears down the mountain. Sans lower legs I was somehow able to stuff that cow into the trunk of my 1953 Chev Bel Air. Next morning my brother came up with me and we tracked the spike till the snow ran out. By then it was only bleeding a few drops. Crap. A big mountain lion was working that range and figured for sure I made him a meal. Two weeks later I was again back up on the mountain glassing for mule deer on an open ridge when I heard a helluva commotion in the brush coming downhill towards me. Grizzly country so I got ready. It was a dead and frozen spike elk sliding down the ridge. A few minutes later two guys followed. We chatted for a bit and I told them how I'd muffed it on a spike earlier. They looked at each other. So I looked at the elk. Sure enough there was a deep crease in right front leg just missing the brisket. "Hey! That's OUR elk!" No problem guys. One elk a year is enough for me. Anyway, I have no rights to a screw-up. I'm just glad that elk didn't wind up getting eaten alive.

 

[Ridge Runner]

In Africa & Asia, it goes to whoever drew first blood. I don't necessarily agree with this philosophy but it is what it is.

@Hunter-Habib

I guess it would come down to mind set and ethics.

Good PH/Guide, outfitter, outfitter/PH or Guide

An outfitter, outfitter/PH, PH has a client for X number of days. It's the client's last or second to last hunting day. The client wounds his animal. Time is spent looking for the animal to no avail in finding the animal.

The client as we are all aware pays for the wounded animal. Client has to depart, for personal or business whatever reason cannot extend his stay.

The outfitter, PH relay to the client that they will make every effort to recover the client's animal, notify them, etc, etc,.

A day or so later the outfitter notifies the client the animal was recovered. Outfitter doesn't see the need to provide details, unless client ask, on how the animal was recovered.

Since the previous client paid for the wounded animal; Shouldn't the previous client be given the trophy?
________________________________________________

Now allow me to ask community members opinions:

What if the wounded animal is a #1 record book animal.

Who should get credit in claiming the record?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

@Hunter-Habib

I guess it would come down to mind set and ethics.

Good PH/Guide, outfitter, outfitter/PH or Guide

An outfitter, outfitter/PH, PH has a client for X number of days. It's the client's last or second to last hunting day. The client wounds his animal. Time is spent looking for the animal to no avail in finding the animal.

The client as we are all aware pays for the wounded animal. Client has to depart, for personal or business whatever reason cannot extend his stay.

The outfitter, PH relay to the client that they will make every effort to recover the client's animal, notify them, etc, etc,.

A day or so later the outfitter notifies the client the animal was recovered. Outfitter doesn't see the need to provide details, unless client ask, on how the animal was recovered.

Since the previous client paid for the wounded animal; Shouldn't the previous client be given the trophy?
________________________________________________

Now allow me to ask community members opinions:

What if the wounded animal is a #1 record book animal.

Who should get credit in claiming the record?

As I said earlier, that depends on how badly the animal is wounded. If the hunter finishes off a wounded bull that can't get out of its bed, that's just killing something. Hardly "fair chase." I would have zero interest in registering that trophy. Similarly. I don't think the shit shot deserves to register it either. He paid for it. He can put it on the wall if he is so inclined to be proud of that sort of thing. But at the end of the day he's simply bought a set of horns. Just as well got them off ebay. If it was me that finished that poorly shot bull, I would pay the trophy fee and see if the lodge wanted to buy it back at a discount. #1 shoulder mount would be an eye opener over their fireplace.

If the second hunter kills the #1 trophy and it's only marginally wounded, then it's his trophy and no shame in claiming it. Yes, there is double dipping re trophy fees, but them's the haps. Operators don't plan for this but when it happens, it happens. The rule is draw blood and you pay for it. Kill an animal, you pay for it. So what if it's the same animal?