Who's Trophy is it anyway? Wounded Animals

[Hunter-Habib]

@Hunter-Habib

I guess it would come down to mind set and ethics.

Good PH/Guide, outfitter, outfitter/PH or Guide

An outfitter, outfitter/PH, PH has a client for X number of days. It's the client's last or second to last hunting day. The client wounds his animal. Time is spent looking for the animal to no avail in finding the animal.

The client as we are all aware pays for the wounded animal. Client has to depart, for personal or business whatever reason cannot extend his stay.

The outfitter, PH relay to the client that they will make every effort to recover the client's animal, notify them, etc, etc,.

A day or so later the outfitter notifies the client the animal was recovered. Outfitter doesn't see the need to provide details, unless client ask, on how the animal was recovered.

Since the previous client paid for the wounded animal; Shouldn't the previous client be given the trophy?
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Now allow me to ask community members opinions:

What if the wounded animal is a #1 record book animal.

Who should get credit in claiming the record?

A very good question, Ridge Runner.

Reminds me of the time when I shot both these Axis stags. The one to my right, was taken on my own personal license. The one to the left was wounded in the gut in the afternoon by Brigadier General Mahmudul Hassan but I followed him up & finished him off. The Beat Office officially listed the Shikari of the left side stag as the General since the General's bullet wound wound eventually have proven fatal (albeit after days of agony).

 

[Doug Hamilton]

In Africa & Asia, it goes to whoever drew first blood. I don't necessarily agree with this philosophy but it is what it is.

When another hunter wounds/cripples a game animal, I will kill it if I can to end its suffering and to relieve the other hunter of his anxiety. I do not want to claim it as my own. This is especially true if the other hunter is one of my group. Of course, individual circumstances could change things. Big game vs birds for instance, degree of injury from the first shot, etc.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Oddly enough, an incident in Northern California is what prompted my question. In 1989 I was hunting black tails in the Yolla Bollas. I had already killed my buck so I was along with my friend when a buck came sneaking by. He killed the buck and while we were gutting the buck another guy came along and said it was his as he had wounded it, we looked everywhere and found no wound and the deer was moving normally. A huge argument ensued and I finally found a crease on the buck hind leg just above the hoof where the other hunter hit . When the other hunter saw where he hit it, he relented and helped us get the buck to the horses. Everyone was happy but it could’ve ended so much worse.

I agree. When I talk about who hit the animal first, I'm talking about a serious wound.

 

[Hunt anything]

I agree. When I talk about who hit the animal first, I'm talking about a serious wound.

Agree, the first shooter said when he shot the buck it jumped and kicked making him think he made a good shot. But quickly realized what happened after he saw the evidence.

 

[Safari Dave]

IMO, the hunter who causes the first drop of blood, should tag it, and be responsible for everything that follows.


No good excuse for a bad first shot.


I've made them. I will ante up.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

It’s all circumstance.

North America with a guide hunting deer. You draw blood, with conclusive evidence, you look until you are unable to find it. Then decide if your hunt is over. This is discretionary between the guide/outfitter and you. A lot of times, and I don’t agreed with this, the guide and hunter hunts another deer, and may successfully kill and tag a deer, and the first is never recovered. I’ve never done this.

Another scenario: 2 groups of separate hunters and guides/outfitters are aware of the same bull elk, one has a tag that allows archery, he arrows the bull and it runs off and the archer can’t get to it, then the second hunter with a muzzleloader is aware of the bulls location and takes the opportunity to kill it (unethical or not, regarding allowing the opportunity for the archery hunter to finish it) and the muzzle loader hunter claims the bull. That bull is now the muzzle loader hunters tagged bull. Recently happened to a guy I know…

Africa, in my experience, you draw blood, you own it and pay for it. Circumstances not withstanding… I’ve been fortunate to only have one experience where I wish I had a shot back that my gut instinct told me not to shoot. It was my first hunt with a young PH, where I shot an immature Kudu on my first trip to SA. I knew I was on the hook for it before I shot. I mentioned to the PH that it looked immature, I hesitated, and after assurances and urging from the PH, I shot and killed it. As soon as we got up to the Kudu I felt overwhelmed with regret and frustration. But, I owned it! I switched PH’s immediately after that incident.

After a lengthy negotiation with the owner and an agreed discount on the immature Kudu, I took another 55”. The immature Kudu is on my wall as a reminder…

I’ve been lucky to have never injured any animal and not recovered it.

 

[HankBuck]

In my experience deer hunting here in North America, it's whoever delivers the killing shot. Guided hunts may differ.

@skydiver386: in the crowded Deer woods of Pennsylvania and especially on Opening Day - these conflicts regularly occur. Game Wardens are sometimes called to resolve these disputes but there is NO Law to abide by and the Wardens hope to let the Hunters work it out. It is usually resolved through conversation, arguments, or a time honored “fist fight”. How heated the argument depends on how Big the Buck is? (It’s easy to give up a spike and keep on hunting….less so a 10 pointer)

 

[skydiver386]

@skydiver386: in the crowded Deer woods of Pennsylvania and especially on Opening Day - these conflicts regularly occur. Game Wardens are sometimes called to resolve these disputes but there is NO Law to abide by and the Wardens hope to let the Hunters work it out. It is usually resolved through conversation, arguments, or a time honored “fist fight”. How heated the argument depends on how Big the Buck is? (It’s easy to give up a spike and keep on hunting….less so a 10 pointer)

There is Private land, where things are usually between friends and family, and Public Land, where things can get nasty when shot rains down on another mans duck blind, or a wounded buck doesn't drop at the shot. I only hunt Public land during slower seasons, and refuse to hunt crowded areas for this exact reason.

 

[Ridge Runner]

@skydiver386: in the crowded Deer woods of Pennsylvania and especially on Opening Day - these conflicts regularly occur. Game Wardens are sometimes called to resolve these disputes but there is NO Law to abide by and the Wardens hope to let the Hunters work it out. It is usually resolved through conversation, arguments, or a time honored “fist fight”. How heated the argument depends on how Big the Buck is? (It’s easy to give up a spike and keep on hunting….less so a 10 pointer)

+1......Hunting public land.

[Earlier during the archery season in this same area I seen 2 nice bucks with no opportunity for a shot on either buck.]

I shot a spike during muzzle loading season. Slightly over a 1/2 mile or so from my vehicle.

Another hunter over the hill from where I shot, the hunter claimed he saw 2 deer coming toward him was sure they were both does and declared he shot a doe.

(Very short version) After passing by the deer 8 times and I started down the hill he suddenly "found" the deer; declared "why it's a buck" and went to gutting it.

His boat was about 15 yards away and being a spike I let him have yet.

Now, could I have made a fuss. Yes. Because he was shooting a 45 or 50 cal and I was shooting a 10 bore loaded with a 1 ounce, hollow base, 12 gauge slug, patched with the toe end of a thick cotton sock as a patch.

Later that day, after having given up the spike. I found outhird muzzle loading hunter killed both bucks that morning. One was a seven pointer and the other was a nine pointer.

 

[HankBuck]

+1......Hunting public land.

[Earlier during the archery season in this same area I seen 2 nice bucks with no opportunity for a shot on either buck.]

I shot a spike during muzzle loading season. Slightly over a 1/2 mile or so from my vehicle.

Another hunter over the hill from where I shot, the hunter claimed he saw 2 deer coming toward him was sure they were both does and declared he shot a doe.

(Very short version) After passing by the deer 8 times and I started down the hill he suddenly "found" the deer; declared "why it's a buck" and went to gutting it.

His boat was about 15 yards away and being a spike I let him have yet.

Now, could I have made a fuss. Yes. Because he was shooting a 45 or 50 cal and I was shooting a 10 bore loaded with a 1 ounce, hollow base, 12 gauge slug, patched with the toe end of a thick cotton sock as a patch.

Later that day, after having given up the spike. I found outhird muzzle loading hunter killed both bucks that morning. One was a seven pointer and the other was a nine pointer.

@Ridge Runner - we always hunted Deer on Public Land in PA during the 1970s-1980s. A couple of the “old” guys I hunted with told me that if I downed a deer to immediately “cut off the tail” and hold on to it. They thought that if another hunter tried to TAKE your deer or dragged-it-off when you went to get you friends or truck - the “tail” would later help you prove it was YOUR Deer to a Game Warden. I never tried it or saw an instance of that technique being used - but I thought it was interesting logic. A mature man with 1/2 a brain would say “it ain’t worth fighting over a Deer” but I remember how happy I was when I killed my 1st Buck - it was Opening Day in PA and I was 26 - got a Spike, still ranks as the most exciting moment of my hunting Life. Had anyone tried to take that Buck from me then - there would’ve been a real brawl.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I remember one protracted discussion with another hunter over who would take the goose home. They dropped one that glided to my end of the field and I missed seeing the second bird in a triple fall when I was dodging the third as it almost fell on me. My dog brought in their bird (banded) and I set it aside. After geese stopped flying I see one of the guys walking out in the field with his young Lab. I take the goose to him. But he insists he's looking for my goose which now must be in my hand. While we were debating, my Lab got snarky with his young dog being too close to her bird. The guy kicked her, grabbed the goose and stomped off swearing. I was embarrassed but not upset. We protect our dogs. After bagging my decoys I noticed my other Lab standing out in the field looking at something. "Pearl, go see what Opal is up to." She ran out and picked up the missing goose. Opal was waiting for Pearl to come take care of "her" bird. Curiously, when in Montana hunting pheasants their roles reversed. I should add after that guy gave Pearl the boot she never again snapped at the dogs over geese. It really shocked her that a stranger would do that. Me giving her shit about it never had the desired effect.

 

[Hunt anything]

Good story @Ontario Hunter , on a lighter note. If a stranger would have kicked my first chessie they would have come back with half a leg. He was one surly old SOB.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Good story @Ontario Hunter , on a lighter note. If a stranger would have kicked my first chessie they would have come back with half a leg. He was one surly old SOB.

I'm just thankful he only kicked her. It could have been much worse ... and with justification. I will say only one dog ever bit me. Not mine. And it paid for it in blood. I once had a Lab tear up a drunk neighbor who walked into the house uninvited at 3:00 a.m. But Sophie was always a bit too protective for my liking. Took some work to get her sorted out.

 

[Hunt anything]

I'm just thankful he only kicked her. It could have been much worse ... and with justification. I will say only one dog ever bit me. Not mine. And it paid for it in blood. I once had a Lab tear up a drunk neighbor who walked into the house uninvited at 3:00 a.m. But Sophie was always a bit too protective for my liking. Took some work to get her sorted out.

Understand, Tug was a big baby UNTIL a stranger got too close to his bird, his truck or his boat. Around family and friends he was a totally different dog.

 

[HankBuck]

Good story @Ontario Hunter , on a lighter note. If a stranger would have kicked my first chessie they would have come back with half a leg. He was one surly old SOB.

@Hunt anything - I’ve Never seen a Hunter “kick or hit” another Hunter’s dog…that would be a risky move and I wouldn’t be surprised if an incident like that ended up in a fist fight.