Wanting .458 win mag chronograph results of factory

[PeteG]

I have a CZ 550 with 25 " barrel. Unfortunately I am currently using Peregrine 450 gr at 2250 fps so dont have data on factory ammo. 2 others at my range are using 480 gr hornady solids handloaded with Somchem powder at 2150 fps.(Someone will be along shortly to say it cannot be done but I trust those guys) I also got first hand reports from a guide who did 5 elephant on problem animal control inthe last few years. He said no problems with penetration with frontal brain shots on big bulls. Anyone I can find that has used the calibre on elephant say it does the job. This thread proves that very few people have any facts to back up there prejudice against the calibre. Thanks for actually providing velocities.

We got 2,150 with peregrine 480’s quite easily. Also somchem.
Good up hear others are using similar successfully.

 

[Nhoro]

We got 2,150 with peregrine 480’s quite easily. Also somchem.
Good up hear others are using similar successfully.

What powder and number of grains did you use ? The 450 gr bullets have impressed me, I dug them out out of the gravel/ shale behind a target and they had little deformation and were still straight.

 

[PeteG]

What powder and number of grains did you use ? The 450 gr bullets have impressed me, I dug them out out of the gravel/ shale behind a target and they had little deformation and were still straight.

S321 peregrine copper solid 480gr
73gr +-2,100fps
74gr +-2,120fps
75gr +-2,150fps.
Pulled the solid out after shooting through a bag of laterite and a conveyor belt backstop. A little deformation and showed an increased frontal area.

 

[Nhoro]

S321 peregrine copper solid 480gr
73gr +-2,100fps
74gr +-2,120fps
75gr +-2,150fps.
Pulled the solid out after shooting through a bag of laterite and a conveyor belt backstop. A little deformation and showed an increased frontal area. View attachment 286881

I assume that you seated the bullet out of the case somewhat-How many grooves out the case ? Attached is a pic of 3 bullets dug out of a shale/gravel bank. Approx 12-14 inches into the bank.

Peregrine 450 gr Bullet Performance

• Nhoro
• Jan 21, 2019

 

[PeteG]

I assume that you seated the bullet out of the case somewhat-How many grooves out the case ? Attached is a pic of 3 bullets dug out of a shale/gravel bank. Approx 12-14 inches into the bank.

Peregrine 450 gr Bullet Performance

• Nhoro
• Jan 21, 2019

We tried to seat them out further but the magazine well wasn't co-operating with us, we ended up using the COAL as recommended i believe, perhaps 1mm further out but i would need to check the notebook.
i can check over the weekend for full details and get a pic of the loaded rounds.

 

[Daga Boy]

Have done a little experimenting with the 458 since I last posted .
Using S321 and CCI250 Primers and loading about 1mm longer than standard my loads varied between 2120 and 2150 using hornady 500grn FMjs and interlocks. ( so 2135 average). No powder compression and no signs of excessive pressure
In my CZ these loads are a long way short of max col and probably achievable in any standard length action
Note though that fast burning propellants are very sensitive to adjustments in col , so a load which is 100% fine at a given col may result in excessive pressures if the col is shortened by even a mm/ few thou .
BTW, These results also suggest that hornady's published velocities are correct in rifles of average tolerances and barrels of around 24" as the propellant they use yields higher velocities without increasing pressure

 

[Nhoro]

T

Have done a little experimenting with the 458 since I last posted .
Using S321 and CCI250 Primers and loading about 1mm longer than standard my loads varied between 2120 and 2150 using hornady 500grn FMjs and interlocks. ( so 2135 average). No powder compression and no signs of excessive pressure
In my CZ these loads are a long way short of max col and probably achievable in any standard length action
Note though that fast burning propellants are very sensitive to adjustments in col , so a load which is 100% fine at a given col may result in excessive pressures if the col is shortened by even a mm/ few thou .
BTW, These results also suggest that hornady's published velocities are correct in rifles of average tolerances and barrels of around 24" as the propellant they use yields higher velocities without increasing pressure

Thanks for the he feedback. I have independently found confirmation of Hornady velocity and this is now handloads making the advertised specs today. What Happened at Winchester in the 60’s should stay in the 60’s !

 

[Ridge Runner]

Chronographed .458 Win Mag on Saturday, 06 July 2019 as follows:

Temp: 86-90 degrees F
Humidity: 70%-80%
Wind: Not Applicably

Firearm used:

Interarms Whitworth Mark X
Barrel length: 24 inches
Sights: iron

Ammunition used:

Hornady Factory loads, 500 grain DGS, Superformance
Number of rounds fired: 6

Shot. Muzzle Velocity
1. 2189
2 . 2177
3 . 2190
4. 2089
5. 2077
6. 2121

By reloading I should gain a more consistancy in more uniformity of muzzle velocities of 2100+ fps over any factory loads.

I will update this post as soon as I receive my reloading accessories and reload some ammo go test.

Hope this helps.

 

[Nhoro]

Chronographed .458 Win Mag on Saturday, 06 July 2019 as follows:

Temp: 86-90 degrees F
Humidity: 70%-80%
Wind: Not Applicably

Firearm used:

Interarms Whitworth Mark X
Barrel length: 24 inches
Sights: iron

Ammunition used:

Hornady Factory loads, 500 grain DGS, Superformance
Number of rounds fired: 6

Shot. Muzzle Velocity
1. 2189
2 . 2177
3 . 2190
4. 2089
5. 2077
6. 2121

By reloading I should gain a more consistancy in more uniformity of muzzle velocities of 2100+ fps over any factory loads.

I will update this post as soon as I receive my reloading accessories and reload some ammo go test.

Hope this helps.

Thank you. That is helpful. The spread is more than I would expect at 112 FPS. Also interesting that the velocity seems to taper off on the last shots. Do you reckon the barrel warmed up and expanded a little ? Anyway seem Hornady 458 Ammo does what it says on the box- disproving the general thoughts in this thread. Ain’t nothin like cold hard facts !

 

[Ridge Runner]

Thank you. That is helpful. The spread is more than I would expect at 112 FPS. Also interesting that the velocity seems to taper off on the last shots. Do you reckon the barrel warmed up and expanded a little ? Anyway seem Hornady 458 Ammo does what it says on the box- disproving the general thoughts in this thread. Ain’t nothin like cold hard facts !

2-3 shot groups about 5 minutes between each shot about 20 minutes between each shot shot group.

 

[IvW]

Thank you. That is helpful. The spread is more than I would expect at 112 FPS. Also interesting that the velocity seems to taper off on the last shots. Do you reckon the barrel warmed up and expanded a little ? Anyway seem Hornady 458 Ammo does what it says on the box- disproving the general thoughts in this thread. Ain’t nothin like cold hard facts !

Just shows the lack of quality and what ammo not to use especially for DG..

The 458 WM is still marginal for use on DG in Africa, especially considering that there are so many more better performing cartridges in this caliber group.

Personally I would not bother with one.

In the African DG, game(unless it is all you can get your hands on) my or anybody else's life in the party is just not worth it...

Use a different 458 caliber @ 2300-2400 or even better a .500 at the same velocity enough times and you will see there is a huge difference in the ability to sort out issues with DG at close distance.

If recoil at that velocity is a issue with a 458 get a .400 caliber...a 458 bullet @ just over 2000 fps is gonna bite you somewhere along the line when dealing with DG. Same goes for Hornady Ammo and DG...I would never use ammo with more than a 100fps spread over six shots...I would not recommend that crap for PG never mind DG.

One time hunter one buffalo, maybe you will be ok, maybe...working DG rifle no way...

My opinion anyway, if the 458Wm rocks anybody's boat as a DG rifle, go for it, the PH is bound to get some more back up experience..

 

[IvW]

Ain’t nothin like cold hard facts !

For sure...

Do not use this ammo on DG....Bad loading quality and shite bullets for DG...

 

[Daga Boy]

Ridge Runner's results show that Hornady I achieving exactly what Winchester set out to do.
Whether that is enough will depend on the application.
Personally, I think a bigger case is preferable, if only to gain 50-100fps but at reduced pressures.
However, if sticking to the .458WM then the recommended option is to load with a 450grn mono-metal. Velocities of around 2300fps are achievable without compression at normal COL with bullets which feature driving bands. Loads of this kind perform very well on buffalo.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

I'd say the .458 is one of those " fair cartridges " . Those who dislike it , dislike it with a passion. Those who like it , find it " fair " . There's a book written by one of my favorite fire arms experts , Mike LaGrange . It's called " Ballistics in Perspective " . In it , he mentions that the .458 Win Mag is uses by far , by the most professional cullers. But he goes on to say that while it gets the job done , it is far from the most ideal cartridge for the job.
When my Granddad went to Kenya in '68 for his Safari ( where he dropped a bull elephant with a shoulder shot using the .375 HH Magnum which l own now ) , he observed that all the PHs there were armed with Winchester Model 70 rifles in either .375 HH Magnum or .458 Win Mag. But he also reports that MANY people were unsatisfied with the cartridge and it's lack of penetration . This prompted many PHs to use a .375HH Magnum for all their DG hunting.
This is corroborated by the Hunter , Harry Manners who also thought very poorly of the .458 Win Mag. You can find a 4 part video on you tube of a man who went on a safari with Harry in the 1960s . In the video , he reports 5 shots from a .458 being needed to put down a Bull Elephant.
Now , on the other side of the spectrum b, you have Harry Selby , who actually sold his infamous .416 Rigby and used a .458 Model 70 towards the end of his hunting career and was very happy with it.
Me , personally ... I had the good fortune to hunt a brown bear with a. 458 Win Mag in 2010 . It was an Original BRNO ZKK602 belonging to my childhood friend , Evan ( ironically , that's the gun that got me loving the BRNO actions so much ) . The gun couldn't feed soft point ammunition reliablyely , but with a solid FMJ , it completely pole axed that huge bear. Of course , bears don't even come close to African elephant or buffalo.

 

[IvW]

Those who dislike it , dislike it with a passion.

That sums up my opinion very nicely!

 

[Hoss Delgado]

That sums up my opinion very nicely!

A lot of PHs tend to hate the .458 Min Mag and .460 Weatherby Magnum . .458 , l can wholeheartedly understand. .460 seems like a really good , powerful Calibre to me , though

 

[Von S.]

At 3/4 of a century old now.....I was 10 when the 458 winmag came out.

By the time when I was 20 there was scads of drama queens who were throwing the badmouth on the 458 with the vast majority had never seen a 458 round, with just about hardly any ever fired one with even less owning a rifle to fite one out of.

At five lustrums , or so about, of age I was getting ready to move to africa to live and work. I was given two 03's....one in 06 and the other in 458. Along with that a can of fresh 458 fmj and one in 06 armor piercing. All functioned flawlessly and killed everything they hit.

So basically if someone is attempting to badmouth the 458..... if they are making noises like they are talking fron first hand historical time line they would have to be at least as old as me and possibly a decade or two older.

The 458 is a fine modern day round that when you hit any animal in the right place makes them fall over dead. The 460 does the same...... with the ability to do it farther.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

At 3/4 of a century old now.....I was 10 when the 458 winmag came out.

By the time when I was 20 there was scads of drama queens who were throwing the badmouth on the 458 with the vast majority had never seen a 458 round, with just about hardly any ever fired one with even less owning a rifle to fite one out of.

At five lustrums , or so about, of age I was getting ready to move to africa to live and work. I was given two 03's....one in 06 and the other in 458. Along with that a can of fresh 458 fmj and one in 06 armor piercing. All functioned flawlessly and killed everything they hit.

So basically if someone is attempting to badmouth the 458..... if they are making noises like they are talking fron first hand historical time line they would have to be at least as old as me and possibly a decade or two older.

The 458 is a fine modern day round that when you hit any animal in the right place makes them fall over dead. The 460 does the same...... with the ability to do it farther.

Wow ! That sounds like quite some experience. When you say '03 . Do you mean Springfield 1903 ?

 

[Von S.]

Yes Hoss

Springfields that were given to me by my gunsmith masters that I apprenticed under as a kid.

Though both German, one worked for the US and the other for the nazi's during the war.

I wish I knew what they had forgotten.

 

[IvW]

A lot of PHs tend to hate the .458 Min Mag and .460 Weatherby Magnum . .458 , l can wholeheartedly understand. .460 seems like a really good , powerful Calibre to me , though

Correct...and with good reason....

.460 is only good if you can actually find somebody who can handle the recoil and shoot where he is aiming...a rare breed indeed. I never met one yet...

Most folks are better of with a .458 caliber between 2200-2400 fps...that is reality. On the front end you do not need the extra Mv anyway..

Never ever heard or know of any PH who has recommended a client to bring a 460 on safari...piece of crap, especially when on a Weatherby platform, fitted with a muzzle brake....eish

458 WM got me and the owners into too many bad situations before and I could never recommend that caliber after that...ever...

Rather use a 404, 416 or even a 375 but a 458 WM no thanks, not for me, same goes for the 460 Weatherby Magnum....