Tungsten buckshot for leopard follow up?

[archer36]

A bit more anecdotal follow-up for y’all. A week ago monday I shot a 180 lb boar hog at ~10 yards with 12 gauge cylinder bore 000 tungsten buckshot, I shot him, purposely, with a side shot to the head. Wound channels were thru-and- thru and the entire skull was grossly crepitant. It was a floppy, bloody bag of bones.

Yes. You will definitely get much more penetration from lead substitutes.

 

[Rare Breed]

Given a former thread claiming tungsten shot passes through geese, ducks, etc. could we extrapolate that increased performance to tungsten buckshot? If no 9 tungsten is passing through birds, would tungsten buckshot end the debate about penetration/effectiveness on wounded leopards? It would not flatten on bone or the facial musculature of a tiger like soft lead. Would it guarantee proper penetration? And who is willing to load and try it? (I think I would...) What say ye?

From what I’ve read given I won’t take my leopard until 25 only Steel shot would I use. I just finished Buzz Charltons book Tall Tales and this comes straight from his experience which mirrors all else I’ve found…any type of lead shot and Tungston is simply meant as a legal in US replacement for lead shot is a very poor choice for leopard given using Buzz as an example flattening out with no penetration of skull or chest mussels

 

[Hunter-Habib]

From what I’ve read given I won’t take my leopard until 25 only Steel shot would I use. I just finished Buzz Charltons book Tall Tales and this comes straight from his experience which mirrors all else I’ve found…any type of lead shot and Tungston is simply meant as a legal in US replacement for lead shot is a very poor choice for leopard given using Buzz as an example flattening out with no penetration of skull or chest mussels

What shotgun (i.e brand and model) & shell (i.e buckshot brand, type & size) did Buzz use on leopard again ? Do you have the relevant page, Rare Breed ? I’d love to keep it for reference in the future.

 

[steve white]

People set up "bullet boxes" to test projectile performance, with alternating thicknesses of plywood, soaked phone books and even heavy bones. Why cannot a test be easily done on the heaviest of bones to see if tungsten penetration is not just good enough, but overkill for what the resistance would be on a live leopard? If it will penetrate a giraffe leg bone for example, it will probably be a piece of cake on a cat....why not just find out? If it blows through the giraffe leg bone, who cares if it is recovered, although if it is and is not even blemished then you know it is not flattening out--which I suspect might be almost impossible in fact.

 

[Marc Ret]

From what I’ve read given I won’t take my leopard until 25 only Steel shot would I use. I just finished Buzz Charltons book Tall Tales and this comes straight from his experience which mirrors all else I’ve found…any type of lead shot and Tungston is simply meant as a legal in US replacement for lead shot is a very poor choice for leopard given using Buzz as an example flattening out with no penetration of skull or chest mussels

Tungsten shot is not "simply meant as a legal in US replacement for lead shot". It is completely different in it's physical properties from lead. There is no way experiences with lead shot can be interpreted to indicate with how tungsten shot will perform.

The density of tungsten pellets is over twice that of steel (18g/cc vs. 7.86g/cc; lead ranges between 10.3-11g/cc depending % antimony). Tungsten shot combines that density with a superior hardness that will not deform anything like soft lead pellets do. Tungsten is a penetrating machine.

Buy a box of steel and a box of tungsten and find out for yourself by doing penetration tests of your own.

 

[Rare Breed]

What shotgun (i.e brand and model) & shell (i.e buckshot brand, type & size) did Buzz use on leopard again ? Do you have the relevant page, Rare Breed ? I’d love to keep it for reference in the future.

To be exact page 148

 

[Rare Breed]

To be exact page 148

I have a ton of respect for Buzz!!!

 

[Tucketed]

what @Marc Ret said. TSS is the ticket. Not a lead or steel replacement. Never done it @IvW but I would bet some scars that you would not regret a Benelli Super filled with TSS buckshot. I am very surprised that this isn’t being used today.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Yes. Absolutely! IF you reload w/ Tung, but first dip them in blue Moly and spray with Teflon and allow to dry before loading...that leopard will be as dead as if you didn't!!! LOL IF only Jap engineers asked these questions before putting turbos below manifolds and oil filters/plugs where you have to lift the engine out prior to basic preventative maint! lol TFTD: IF you shoot standard buckshot at that lightspeed of 1800 fps on a really COLD morning with the LOWEST humidity and corresponding air density, you'll kill that leopard even more!

 

[C.W. Richter]

Most people don't follow up a leopard with measly shotguns. They shoot them DEAD the first shot with much greater power! Does it really matter at the short distance you are putting down a poorly-shot leopard? lol Practice shooting and leave your metallurgy project at home! lol How on EARTH can a person miss a stationary target with a rest (and a year's advance notice! even w/ a 592 Wby)??? I don't see many hunters carrying a shotgun in that case, it's the PH, which will do just fine if necessary. Consider this with std lead loadings...

 

[C.W. Richter]

Though, I hear all of the African Continent is phasing out lead by 2024. They will be taking big game mgmt suggestions (also from CA) after that...

 

[1dirthawker]

Does it really matter at the distance you are putting down a leopard? lol

It does if you don't want scars!

i do see IVW's argument regarding a small shot pattern is not much different in coverage or hitting a target than a slug. I also am curious of the tss penetration and shock value.

the slug will deform (maybe) and expend more energy and tissue damage.

the tss in the correct size might actually act like a slug only better. it will spread inside the animal and act like a deforming lead slug, expending energy and tissue damage.

I do agree with IVW that shooting some large pigs would be a good approximation of shooting a leopard, the shield plate on the pig should result in some significant resistance.

anyway, if one wants to shoot a wounded leopard with tss and are willing to bet your skin on it, have at it. i tend to think that the larger sized tss would work pretty good, but like others have noted, it is unlikely i will hunt leopard. AND, i would kill it with the first shot!

 

[C.W. Richter]

It does if you don't want scars!

i do see IVW's argument regarding a small shot pattern is not much different in coverage or hitting a target than a slug. I also am curious of the tss penetration and shock value.

the slug will deform (maybe) and expend more energy and tissue damage.

the tss in the correct size might actually act like a slug only better. it will spread inside the animal and act like a deforming lead slug, expending energy and tissue damage.

I do agree with IVW that shooting some large pigs would be a good approximation of shooting a leopard, the shield plate on the pig should result in some significant resistance.

anyway, if one wants to shoot a wounded leopard with tss and are willing to bet your skin on it, have at it. i tend to think that the larger sized tss would work pretty good, but like others have noted, it is unlikely i will hunt leopard. AND, i would kill it with the first shot!

I'm both an engineer and like to test everything available...that said, it sounds like a Salesjob to me. Otherwise, all the backing PHs would be scratched up! Amazing how most died after a poor shot (the leopards) using SA-based factory ammo. Like rockets going to space and returning, without tungsten. lol Again, Amazing!!! lol To my way of thinking, using magnum powder loads (handloaded even better!) the std pellets will perform better than gold-plated from kamala harris' arse. LOL Now, getting a few more yards out of your duck/goose/turkey gun on the west coast using heavier, more dense shot (i agree with that!) Maybe switch to those seasons in the ad campaign? lol The antithesis of this as a kid was the advent of stainless steel shot (which performed rather poorly at distance.) LOL It's simply amazing how political contributions make such incredulous impacts on our sport! You are talking about a 150 lb animal with quite a small body, a rediculously wired nervous system-IF you plug it right with just 1 shot, it's lights-out! I doubt that shooting one with birdshot at close range would do a worse job. Ohhh...start a post about copper-plated birdshot on pissed-off leopards at 15 ft! Start with #5 my fav.

 

[1dirthawker]

yeah,

my buddy brown bear guide stated it best, "you never have problems with brown bears at 100 yards, but at 10 yards, thats where the problems start"

 

[C.W. Richter]

yeah,

my buddy brown bear guide stated it best, "you never have problems with brown bears at 100 yards, but at 10 yards, thats where the problems start"

But, is anyone using a shotgun for that??? Big bullet put in the right place (either by hunter or guide.) Not many wind up that way. 250-300 gr pistol (lead) lol will do the trick at 10 yds. Simply amazing how the 300 gr Buffalo Bullets don't tumble in the bear brains-they just die! 10x the mass of the leopard. The leopards must have very dense brains. let's talk about that.

 

[spike.t]

I would also like to know how it penetrates the shoulder area of a big wild boar on a side shot.....

 

[503]

New ammo a game-changer for public land hogs

Apex TSS shotgun shells taking turkeys, hogs, deer

www.clarionledger.com

 

[503]

If #2 tss will kill a 150 pound hog at 45 yards then 00 to 0000 tss buckshot should be able to kill dinosaurs.

Cheers

503

 

[mikesheree]

Rather than speculate, or rely (?) on other’s accounts regarding tungsten buckshot effectiveness, it is going to be necessary for y’all to PERSONALLY see what it is or is not capable of. Now, being 70+ , retired in Florida , I do this every 3-4 weeks.
As background, I vary from a .416 Rigby T/C Pro Hunter ( now for sale) or .458 Win mag Ruger #1 ( also now for sale) and a slew of others down to 7x65r.
I typically take one hog (i’ll take 2-3 each hunt) with a shotgun. For the last six months, each hunt, I have take one with either a 20 or a 12 gauge. OO or OOO tungsten buck each time. Those with the shotgun are hogs that have been bayed(not “caught”) by dogs and the shot is typically 3-10 yds.
Folks, I don’t have y’all’s experience or expertise. I can say, however, that these projectiles do not deform, have much greater density than lead or, certainly, steel, and deliver unequivocal results at the distances under discussion.
My “other” real world experience comes from a career as a pathologist, trained at the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (1986 grad) and time as a military and civilian medical examiner.
My point-YOU personally must be able to satisfy YOURSELF as to the adequacy of your firearm and it’s ammunition. You can only do this by the “old scientific method “. Talk is cheap. Reproduce the experimental conditions yourself, perform the study, and see if the results can be validated.

 

[HankBuck]

I've often said that my SBE with 3.5" turkey shells is the hardest kicking firearm I own.

Agree, tried 3 1/2 turkey loads “once” - recoil was ridiculous and “pointless” because they don’t kill any further then 3” or likely even 2 3/4” (choke/pattern/shot size much more important)...but the 3 1/2” shell development was Marketing Genius and convinced an entire generation of Hunters they “needed” a 3 1/2” load to kill Geese/ducks/turkeys AND had to buy a New shotgun that could use that length shell (wish I though of that). The requirement for Steel Shot opened the door for the creation of 3 1/2” shells and “maybe” they have a marginal performance advantage vs Steel in shorter shells (I doubt it). But for lead - No reason. The greatest advancement in shotgun shells for extended range is the use of Tungston; Hevishot etc...that does make a difference and can add 10-15 yrds IMO.
But 3 1/2” shells only excel at loosening my teeth ! (Just my opinion and based on my experience and general closed minded thinking and know-it-all-attitude!!!)