Why is it that when it comes to the big British Gun Makers, Rigby are the only brand that offers "affordable" models?

[Brian Rothhammer]

Yes, they are. There is one in 308 in my local gun shop at the moment.

A bit pricey, I'd bet.

 

[Northern Shooter]

Anyone stop by the Rigby booth at ShotShow? They are supposed to have some 250 year commemorative rifles.

Any other of the British makes on display at ShotShow?

 

[Sika98k]

The deep blueing on this rifle, a friends Rigby, is drop dead gorgeous.

 

[Killo]

This thread has only reinforced my interest in the Rigby brand and has sold me on on buying one of their “poor-rich-man” models.

Now the only question is Highland Stalker or Big Game? It would have to be in either 275 or 416 Rigby.

Big Game 416

 

[mark-hunter]

So why is this? are Rigby not viewed to be on the same level as those above? Are Rigby the only brand in this class that are trying to appeal to the hunters that aspire to own "London best" rifles with more entry level pricing? Do you feel like this pricing strategy cheapens their brand name at all?

It is hard to say.
I had similar question about what happened with British medium class rifles, and why they disappeared?

I think that disappearance of medium class firearm from UK industry is due to combination of several factors:
- loss of domestic market due to one of the strictest gun laws in the world
- loss of domestic market due to loss of interest in hunting of general population
- loss of colonies and loss of popularity for overseas sports

Then there are big names:
- they have marketing policy "best of the best", fine and bespoke guns, royal guns, for worlds elite.

In the same time medium class market demand is covered by imports.

Now to the question:
If Holland and Holland is Rolls Royce of the guns, Rigby is Mercedes of the guns.
So, I dont think that Rigby marketing policy cheapens the brand at all. It fits well in overall offers per class of firearm. I would love to own one!

And here is old thread about middle class british guns:

M

Thread 'What happened to British gun industry?'

May 19, 2020

Dear all,

We all know about English bespoke guns. they are now also having their renaissance as well.
So this is not about them.

The question is why the British gun industry does not produce any more rifles and shotguns for middle class customers? What happened to british factory guns?

What are the background reasons behind general lack of British factory rifles and shotguns on the market?

• mark-hunter
• Replies: 112
• Forum: Firearms & ammunition

• 

 

[KJE81]

The deep blueing on this rifle, a friends Rigby, is drop dead gorgeous.View attachment 660352

Is that one of their London Best?

 

[Borderer]

It is hard to say.
I had similar question about what happened with British medium class rifles, and why they disappeared?

I think that disappearance of medium class firearm from UK industry is due to combination of several factors:
- loss of domestic market due to one of the strictest gun laws in the world
- loss of domestic market due to loss of interest in hunting of general population
- loss of colonies and loss of popularity for overseas sports

Then there are big names:
- they have marketing policy "best of the best", fine and bespoke guns, royal guns, for worlds elite.

In the same time medium class market demand is covered by imports.

Now to the question:
If Holland and Holland is Rolls Royce of the guns, Rigby is Mercedes of the guns.
So, I dont think that Rigby marketing policy cheapens the brand at all. It fits well in overall offers per class of firearm. I would love to own one!

And here is old thread about middle class british guns:

M

Thread 'What happened to British gun industry?'

May 19, 2020

Dear all,

We all know about English bespoke guns. they are now also having their renaissance as well.
So this is not about them.

The question is why the British gun industry does not produce any more rifles and shotguns for middle class customers? What happened to british factory guns?

What are the background reasons behind general lack of British factory rifles and shotguns on the market?

• mark-hunter
• Replies: 112
• Forum: Firearms & ammunition

• 

I think licencing is the main reason.

The licencing is run by the local police authority and varies widely. For instance, I am not permitted to fire my 375 other than to zero it. I have posted elsewhere about a custom 338-06 I was offered for next to nothing. I was told that whilst I could have permission to own it, I would not be allowed to fire it other than to zero it as my licencing authority does not allow rifles larger than 30-06 to be used on live quarry in the UK. The neighboring authority (2 miles away) will allow 300 win mag and 7mm win mag. Also, it is taking around 4-6 months to process an application in our area.

I have been told that I will not be granted permission to keep my 375 unless I have proof of hunting trips being booked overseas at least every 5 years.

Talking to friends elsewhere, the police really aren't keen on anything above 30-06. The rules make no sense and are generally written and enforced by people with very little knowledge or interest.

Unless you are hunting overseas regularly, medium bores don't make sense here.

 

[Sika98k]

Is that one of their London Best?

No, this is an old one,I forget just how old, that a friend of mine bought over 30 years ago and gradually customised it. The safety is now a rhs M70 style. He added a Timney trigger and had it restocked and reblued at other stages. It sports a Swarovski Habicht 2,2-9x42 scope.
It shoots beautifully. I took a young sika hind and 2 hybrids with it last month.
My own one is pretty ancient also, 5#8# puts it somewhere in the 1920’s

 

[mark-hunter]

I have been told that I will not be granted permission to keep my 375 unless I have proof of hunting trips being booked overseas at least every 5 years.

Going to safari every 5 year is not too bad prospect, but this being the condition to keep the rifle, hmmm... And then, after all safaris are done and paid for, then there is an issue of importing some trophies. Really unfriendly atmosphere for hunter.

I love the UK. Been to London many times. I love the people, the pubs, museums, food.
But I dont think I would love to live there. I like my guns and my hunting too much. (including my pistols, which are totally banned there)

 

[franzfmdavis]

This thread has only reinforced my interest in the Rigby brand and has sold me on on buying one of their “poor-rich-man” models.

Now the only question is Highland Stalker or Big Game? It would have to be in either 275 or 416 Rigby.

Both will be the “necessary”; but start with the HS in 275, plus hurry if you want one stained in the dark red tone. They are moving away from that tone and plan to have their rifles finished in natural tones going forward.

 

[franzfmdavis]

Anyone stop by the Rigby booth at ShotShow? They are supposed to have some 250 year commemorative rifles.

Any other of the British makes on display at ShotShow?

They do at SCI. Only 250 made and likely only 50 to the states. @GENTZ SPORTING ARMS has 5 on hand (from the left, the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th are his 250th Big Game rifles all double square bridge in .416 Rigby).

 

[KJE81]

No, this is an old one,I forget just how old, that a friend of mine bought over 30 years ago and gradually customised it. The safety is now a rhs M70 style. He added a Timney trigger and had it restocked and reblued at other stages. It sports a Swarovski Habicht 2,2-9x42 scope.
It shoots beautifully. I took a young sika hind and 2 hybrids with it last month.
My own one is pretty ancient also, 5#8# puts it somewhere in the 1920’s
View attachment 660546View attachment 660548

I see, it looks great regardless!

 

[KJE81]

I think licencing is the main reason.

The licencing is run by the local police authority and varies widely. For instance, I am not permitted to fire my 375 other than to zero it. I have posted elsewhere about a custom 338-06 I was offered for next to nothing. I was told that whilst I could have permission to own it, I would not be allowed to fire it other than to zero it as my licencing authority does not allow rifles larger than 30-06 to be used on live quarry in the UK. The neighboring authority (2 miles away) will allow 300 win mag and 7mm win mag. Also, it is taking around 4-6 months to process an application in our area.

I have been told that I will not be granted permission to keep my 375 unless I have proof of hunting trips being booked overseas at least every 5 years.

Talking to friends elsewhere, the police really aren't keen on anything above 30-06. The rules make no sense and are generally written and enforced by people with very little knowledge or interest.

Unless you are hunting overseas regularly, medium bores don't make sense here.

And here I thought we had the worst rules regarding fire arms licencing in Sweden, it actually sounds like you have it worse. Albeit you have a far better situation with shotguns if memory serves?

In Sweden we get to have 4-6 weapons on hunting licence, regardless if these are shotguns or rifles. There are no limitations as to the calibre, but you have to produce proof of need in the form of a written motivation as to why you need the weapons on your licence. It might be hard to get licence of several rifles of the same or very similar calibre unless there is something that sets them a part, like different usages or something like this. The silver lining is that we at least have our licences idefinately, no 5 year-periods or something like that.

Unfortunately we are not so fortunate with hand guns, here the rules seems to be similar to yours when it comes to rifles, we get five year licences and only if we can show that we are members of a shooting club and shoot regulalarly.

 

[Northern Shooter]

And here I was thinking we had it bad in Canada. This having to "justify" certain calibers/rifles based on usage seems real draconian.

 

[Northern Shooter]

They do at SCI. Only 250 made and likely only 50 to the states. @GENTZ SPORTING ARMS has 5 on hand (from the left, the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th are his 250th Big Game rifles all double square bridge in .416 Rigby).

View attachment 660594

Those are beautiful rifles, I imagine they command quite the premium over the standard Big Game.

 

[franzfmdavis]

Those are beautiful rifles, I imagine they command quite the premium over the standard Big Game.

The standard big game with those same wood features are about 25 to 26 and those are 29 to 30 I believe

 

[pjaln]

I think $15k spent on a Bailey Bradshaw, MNR, and a few others buys you a nicer rifle than a $15k European rifle.


But sticking to Rigby. Personally I would rather have an original 100 year old one with the blueing worn off, and worn stock with good rifling. Spending less and buying the essence of why most of us want that British African style rifle.


To take it even further. Here are my working man’s version of the British rifle. “Poor man’s Rigby” View attachment 658241

View attachment 658242

did you just buy that mauser from MNR ?

 

[pjaln]

I’m sure Westley Richards made an attempt at the “Poor Rich Man” market, but as it had a quite unattractive synthetic stock it was not received well…

years ago it was called the "game ranger"

 

[Daisy]

I think it's mainly a strategic brand management decision, driven by the different ownership of the companies.

Rigby is owned by Luke and Ortmeir Group, who are a holding company who deal in firearms. They own Mauser, Rigby, Hammerli, Sig Sauer and a couple others. Rigby is their premium offering in the way that Jaguar is Tata's.

Purdey, by contrast, is owned by the Richemont Group, a holding company for luxury goods and brands. They own Vacheron Constantin, Cartier, and Montblanc, amongst others.

Holland and Holland, until 2021, was owned by Chanel. Although now it's Beretta's.

Westley Richards is a bit more opaque, although the chief financier is Sheikh Sultan Bin Jassim Al Thani of Qatar, so I presume it's mostly a passion / vanity project.

Anyhow, in Luxury brands, brand equity supersedes all other considerations. It's the most valuable part of the product. You keep it exclusive at all costs, because any downmarket stretch damages the IP. If you look at say Purdey as a luxury brand (Richemont clearly does, that's all they deal in), the fact that it's expensive makes it exclusive, which justifies the price, which justifies the exclusivity. A virtuous circle. The fact that doing so doesn't allow you to sell many units is a good thing, because it allows you to charge any price you want, and the more you charge, the more people desire the good. Growth in revenue and profit comes primarily from increasingly high price points, not drastically increasing sales volumes.

If you're primarily interested in making firearms however, a bit of downmarket stretch is no bad thing. More units keeps the lights on. If you can take the Mauser action from one business unit, improve it a bit, give it a nice fit and finish, do some custom work, then sell it under a more impressive name for a significantly higher margin, that's a good plan. I expect Rigby is the most reliably profitable of the big british names as a result, and probably the one posting the most rapid growth.

In the long term, I think Rigby will need to be extremely careful that doing so doesn't dilute their brand equity to a point where their brand is seen as lesser than say Purdey. In 20 odd years I think they might find themselves at a point where they're primarily a 'premium' mid-market brand who see a lot of sales in their bread and butter 'a bit more than a nice Mauser' 7-20k range, and rather less interest in their high end custom work as a result.

But for now, I expect it's proving to be a very profitable business decision.

Reminds me of the path Rolex took compared to say patek phillipe.

Among watch aficionados Rolex is seen as a mid market brand.

However, among the public as a whole (99.9%) of people, they are seen as a top end luxury product.

In doing so, Rolex has turned into a behemoth. They dwarf the premium makers by 100 fold.

It is a tight rope to walk, but it can be done.

 

[Daisy]

Are you sure you’re replying to the right thread? I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Sure you do