Thoughts on Tuskless Hunting

[Philip Glass]

An excellent hunt Philip. Really enjoyed watching that.

Thank you Sir!

 

[Philip Glass]

I've never spent less than $16,000 all-in (w/ airfare, tips, lodging, curios) for a safari nor have I ever spent more than $23,000.

The least you're going to pay in trophy fee for a tuskless or cow used to be about $6000? For a bull, you're going to pay at minimum $11,000. So there is a $5000 cost differential between tuskless/cow and exportable bull.

Not a lot of savings to shoot a cow, unless you take the extreme case (e.g. $65,000 Botswana Bull) versus the normative case (e.g. $23,000 Zim bull)

There is also not a significant price difference between a non-importable bull, a trophy 40lb exportable bull, and a trophy exportable 60lb bull. Shop smart.

$4500 trophy fee for Tuskless where I hunt

 

[Tanks]

Can somebody post a picture of african map, on elephant ear? I would love to see how it looks like!

 

[mark-hunter]

I'm hoping to rehabilitate him though

I have seen extremes, when in some hunting clubs with strict management programs - they apply disciplinary actions or fines, and occasional hunting ban for a season or two, when a member shoots animal of wrong age.
As I dont want to be under pressure, I keep hunting out of such surroundings.

 

[mark-hunter]

$4500 trophy fee for Tuskless where I hunt

What would be then a day rate?
Asking just to get an idea on rough budget.

 

[Backyardsniper]

What would be then a day rate?
Asking just to get an idea on rough budget.

Depending on the area you can guesstimate $1000 on the low end and $1500 on the higher end. So split the middle and call it $12,000 in daily rates for a 12 day hunt. There will be a road transfer or charter +/-1500 then some VAT taxes and maybe a park ranger fee call that $1000. Trophy fee $4500. That puts you at about $19,000. Airfare $1500 give or take and probably $3000 in gratuities that makes it $23,500. Add a buffalo for $5000 if you want or a fre PG. You're looking at about $3000 or do later on down the road if you shoot a buff or any PG to get it shipped home.
$23,000 is a good base number to kind of figure on "all in" with plane tickets, gratuities, dip and pack, transfers, park or game scout and V
AT taxes. Then you can add to that as you go if you want to shoot anything else while you are there. You may get it done a few thousand cheaper or perhaps spend a few thousand more depending on some of the details of the particular hunt you chose.

 

[deewayne2003]

For a 10day hunt with daily and trophy fees

Tuskless $13,500
Bull $24,000

I booked the tuskless

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Depending on the area you can guesstimate $1000 on the low end and $1500 on the higher end. So split the middle and call it $12,000 in daily rates for a 12 day hunt. There will be a road transfer or charter +/-1500 then some VAT taxes and maybe a park ranger fee call that $1000. Trophy fee $4500. That puts you at about $19,000. Airfare $1500 give or take and probably $3000 in gratuities that makes it $23,500. Add a buffalo for $5000 if you want or a fre PG. You're looking at about $3000 or do later on down the road if you shoot a buff or any PG to get it shipped home.
$23,000 is a good base number to kind of figure on "all in" with plane tickets, gratuities, dip and pack, transfers, park or game scout and V
AT taxes. Then you can add to that as you go if you want to shoot anything else while you are there. You may get it done a few thousand cheaper or perhaps spend a few thousand more depending on some of the details of the particular hunt you chose.

Excellent breakdown price breakdown.

I don't think you and @rookhawk are comparing apples to apples.

I too have been going back and forth on a Trophy Bull vs a Tuskless and have come to similar pricing estimates as your $19k guesstimate before the Airfare, Gratuities, etc. Regardless of area, most outfitters are pretty close on their Tuskless prices. I’ve received multiple quotes this year on an all-in price for a Trophy Exportable Bull in the low to mid $20’s range.

Where I think the disconnect is coming from, is likely the area hunted, as well as outfitter maybe. None of the quotes I’ve received in that lower $20k price range are for the Omay where you were supposed to do your Tuskless with D&Y. A quote from Dalton for a trophy bull in the valley was $27k all in, however everything for them in 2023 in the Zambezi Valley is already booked/sold. Looking at it this way (same outfitter/area) a Trophy Bull is $8k more. If one wants to shop around a Trophy Bull can be found for nearly the same price. If one waits till the end of the season, there will be deals on Trophy Bulls for very close to the same price as your Tuskless or possibly even slightly less (I had 2 offers last year for less) and had an offer this year in Botswana for the same price on a cancellation.

 

[MarkB]

Thanks to an A-Hole US booking agent I shot my only bull, a non exportable bull for far less than expected. The ears and artificial tusks were done by TCI in Bulawayo and are something I admire daily in the memory room. Wayne @NYAMAZANA SAFARIS gave me a safari and hunt I will forever be great full for. Heart rate and BP equal only to a couple hunting situations, (think grizz charge.) Unless unforeseen funds come my way I do not expect to hunt another bull but a tusk less could be within my lifetime.

I am no ethical policeman, many species are shot "pregnant" as are animals butchered, sad but part of life. Unknown pregnancy status has never stopped me from a shot. As for herd disturbance that I can see and relate too, when I shot my bull many cows and calf's were close, pucker factor was very high and cows were pissed. But on my hunt, the point was to get ele away from people/communal areas.

I see a tusk less cow hunt as a chance to hunt ele again at a price I can attain but if the non exportable bull costs remain close and reasonable that could be another life time memory to be added.

MB

 

[Rare Breed]

What would be then a day rate?
Asking just to get an idea on rough budget.

$900 day rate where Philip is discussing…I am Hunting tuskless with him next month same area and outfitter. $9,000 for 10 days day rate plus $4500 trophy fee. If I had gotten in earlier before trophy bulls all booked would have been a $14k trophy fee

 

[Philip Glass]

What would be then a day rate?
Asking just to get an idea on rough budget.

I am hunting with Dalton & York annually and for now it is $900/day. No one has a price like that.
The quota is limited and booked up for the next year or so. You need to get a hunt on the books with them. They are awesome!

 

[Backyardsniper]

I am hunting with Dalton & York annually and for now it is $900/day. No one has a price like that.
The quota is limited and booked up for the next year or so. You need to get a hunt on the books with them. They are awesome!

I'm about to pull the trigger on 2025.or 2026, depending on how the savings plan goes. I still have to mop up the shipping and taxidermy from this year's hunt which is gonna kick my ass because I got pretty trigger happy. I'm looking at maybe buff and tuskless or two buff and a tuskless for the next one. I hope to make 2025 but reality will likely be more like 2026.

 

[Philip Glass]

Thanks to an A-Hole US booking agent I shot my only bull, a non exportable bull for far less than expected. The ears and artificial tusks were done by TCI in Bulawayo and are something I admire daily in the memory room. Wayne @NYAMAZANA SAFARIS gave me a safari and hunt I will forever be great full for. Heart rate and BP equal only to a couple hunting situations, (think grizz charge.) Unless unforeseen funds come my way I do not expect to hunt another bull but a tusk less could be within my lifetime.

I am no ethical policeman, many species are shot "pregnant" as are animals butchered, sad but part of life. Unknown pregnancy status has never stopped me from a shot. As for herd disturbance that I can see and relate too, when I shot my bull many cows and calf's were close, pucker factor was very high and cows were pissed. But on my hunt, the point was to get ele away from people/communal areas.

I see a tusk less cow hunt as a chance to hunt ele again at a price I can attain but if the non exportable bull costs remain close and reasonable that could be another life time memory to be added.

MB

I’ve raised Axis deer my whole adult life. They are always lactating and/or pregnant. We still have to hunt them or we would be overpopulated. Like most of the southern elephant range is.

 

[Philip Glass]

What would be then a day rate?
Asking just to get an idea on rough budget.

Keep in mind if you are looking a couple years out the prices will go up.

 

[375Fox]

I am hunting with Dalton & York annually and for now it is $900/day. No one has a price like that.
The quota is limited and booked up for the next year or so. You need to get a hunt on the books with them. They are awesome!

The price really depends on the area. The Omay seems to be a good value overall though. Here is an offer from a well known outfitter at comparable pricing for another campfire area adjacent to the Omay in Gokwe. There are some good deals but the best areas come at a premium.

 

[375Fox]

$900 day rate where Philip is discussing…I am Hunting tuskless with him next month same area and outfitter. $9,000 for 10 days day rate plus $4500 trophy fee. If I had gotten in earlier before trophy bulls all booked would have been a $14k trophy fee

If you want a trophy bull it would probably be a very good time to discuss it before it gets taken. They probably have a good amount of extra quota available now since they were unable to hunt until just now over the dispute.

 

[Velo Dog]

Velocity Dog, you are from another era - a recent era but one that is soon to be forgotten - sadly. You hunted back when just getting a deer was reason to celebrate, back when a deer was described by it’s “weight” or “number of points” ie: “My Dad got an 8 pointer ! Weighed 200 lbs.!” There was NEVER any mention of “inches” or “record book”. Any deer was considered a trophy - a success - a memorable hunt. I believe most of that changed in the early 1980s when the words “score” or “inches” started to be used to describe the quality of deer harvested. I think it is a shame that some hunters don’t fully enjoy their success if the animal fails to “score” an arbitrary number. Growing up hunting in NJ and PA in the 1970s and hearing about my relatives deer hunting in the 1950s-60s the only thing I recall was the “joy” hunters expressed when telling stories about a successful hunt, the “great shot” they made, how heavy the deer was ”took 3 of us to load that buck into the trunk of my car”. Every hunter in camp (successful or Not) shared the joy of the Hunter that got a deer. I feel that some of that is being lost with a focus on “score”. Now, I certainly like to drop a BIG Buck and would prefer a 180” whitetail over spike buck — but I still enjoy taking any good buck and feel “thankful” when I do...because I remember all the years when I got Nothing, I’m easy to please.

Thanks for that HankBuck.

I appreciate your opinion and I agree with you that yes, I am definitely from another era.
But in spite of my antique status LoL, the fact remains that, our global hunting culture has a huge public relations problem.
And, it’s clearly gaining momentum.
For one example, more airlines are now refusing to transport taxidermy items.
This PR problem of ours, to me seems fixable but, apparently many of us are either not perceiving the growing threat to our beloved outdoor activities or, perhaps just shrugging about it.

Due to my advanced years, I presume that now within my shortass remaining lifetime, the cracked nuts of this world will not be able to totally shut down foreign hunters from traveling to Africa and other popular global hunting areas.
However, they might have a real chance some day at ending what we love, unless we can get the world wide, non-hunting public to stop leaning toward the fanatic anti-hunter culture and start leaning toward us for a change.

Sorry, rant over.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[mark-hunter]

the fact remains that, our global hunting culture has a huge public relations problem.
And, it’s clearly gaining momentum.
For one example, more airlines are now refusing to transport taxidermy items.
This PR problem of ours, to me seems fixable but, apparently many of us are either not perceiving the growing threat to our beloved outdoor activities or, perhaps just shrugging about it.

Just for the record, I am in total agreement with you.

Appealing to individuals (in hunting community) rarely is successful. Some will listen, some will not.

So, it is my opinion that national and international hunting organisations must revise their internal code of ethics, and clearly define what is proper modern good etiquette for their member hunters.

This mostly refers to social network activity, (public) photography, and everything else, last but not least gun safety, etc.
And ethical code to be installed in all new hunter certification programs. Code of ethics to be easily accessible on public media, for everybody.

If it is not done from within the organization properly and officially, it will never work individually.

 

[SRvet]

Thanks for that HankBuck.

I appreciate your opinion and I agree with you that yes, I am definitely from another era.
But in spite of my antique status LoL, the fact remains that, our global hunting culture has a huge public relations problem.
And, it’s clearly gaining momentum.
For one example, more airlines are now refusing to transport taxidermy items.
This PR problem of ours, to me seems fixable but, apparently many of us are either not perceiving the growing threat to our beloved outdoor activities or, perhaps just shrugging about it.

Due to my advanced years, I presume that now within my shortass remaining lifetime, the cracked nuts of this world will not be able to totally shut down foreign hunters from traveling to Africa and other popular global hunting areas.
However, they might have a real chance some day at ending what we love, unless we can get the world wide, non-hunting public to stop leaning toward the fanatic anti-hunter culture and start leaning toward us for a change.

Sorry, rant over.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

I totally agree about the PR issues and the views that most “average” people on the streets hold. As you have previously highlighted the larger middle section of the population are content that culling takes place but what they find distasteful is the notion of killing for trophy which is the impression that is given a lot of the time. We badly need to ditch the term trophy hunting and distance ourselves from the photos on social media of the newly deceased animal and smiling hunter which are almost universally hated (present company excepted of course) and emphasise the good that is done in terms of sustainable wildlife management, anti poaching, community support etc. This will mean a change in how we operate to some extent but I believe it is necessary. By all means take the photos and keep them for yourself but remember once they are on the internet they can and will be used for anti hunting propaganda. Just look at Cecil the lion if anyone needs an example!!

 

[mark-hunter]

I have been following several of recent campaigns against hunters, and all have been started with personal photos with trophies posted on internet.

Somebody could make proper research once.... but I dont think that in pre-internet era, there was so big number of anti hunting campaigns? pre 1995 antihunting campaigns?