Politics

Tundra Tiger said:
The swamp still looks plenty boggy to me. :E Shrug:
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Weird how old Pammy repeatedly said she had the list on her desk…

I’m sure the Swamp Cleaner will get to the bottom of all this and do what’s best
 
Aaron N said:
Weird how old Pammy repeatedly said she had the list on her desk…

I’m sure the Swamp Cleaner will get to the bottom of all this and do what’s best
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Sarcasm noted and shared. Frankly it's sickening (that everything continues to be kept under wraps)
 
Brent in Az said:
The psycho goon squad......aka.....idiot leftists, are trying to blame the Trump administration for the Texas flood disaster.
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You knew they were going to do this; they have no scruples.
 
Because the farther right, and no small number of folks here, have been so certain about a Epstein murder cover-up and the "client list," I wonder if this will represent an existential crisis in trust for the true believers. According to Bondi, Patel, Bongino, and we must assume the President, the MSM reporting on Epstein seems to have been essentially accurate. The DOJ has concluded he killed himself and that there is no actual client or potential blackmail list to release. :E Hmmm:

 
Red Leg said:
Because the farther right, and no small number of folks here, have been so certain about a Epstein murder cover-up and the "client list," I wonder if this will represent an existential crisis in trust for the true believers. According to Bondi, Patel, Bongino, and we must assume the President, the MSM reporting on Epstein seems to have been essentially accurate. The DOJ has concluded he killed himself and that there is no actual client or potential blackmail list to release. :E Hmmm:

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Likely true but would it not be interesting to see the passenger list of flight logs to his island or have those been released?
 
Scott CWO said:
Likely true but would it not be interesting to see the passenger list of flight logs to his island or have those been released?
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I am not a conspiracy sort, at all... but...

My understanding: In 2019, Epstein was arrested on federal charges in New York. He was charged with one count of sex trafficking of minors and one count of conspiracy to engage in sex trafficking of minors. These charges alleged that he sexually exploited and abused dozens of underage girls between 2002 and 2005 in New York and Florida, enticing them with money and using his network of employees and associates to recruit victims.

He acquired “Epstein Island” – Little Saint James – a few years before the charges. It is a 70 acre island and has nicknames such as "Island of Sin", "Pedophile Island", and "Orgy Island" due to allegations of sexual abuse and trafficking of minors that occurred there during Epstein's ownership. According to attorneys for Epstein's alleged victims, the island was where many of these crimes took place.

There is a loooooooong list of people who associated with him, Maxwell, or both, spanning a lot of years, our President being one of them. Here's the Donald's own words in an interview...

"I've known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy," Trump booms from a speakerphone. "He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life."

So... we are to believe that Epstein did all these horrific things - he was charged and incarcerated for them - and did so on a tiny island and rubbed elbows with a crap-ton of wealthy, influential people - many of whom possibly visited this tiny island where this stuff was taking place - and all of them were completely ignorant and innocent while there, and Epstein did all these evil things all by himself? That just does not sound remotely believable, IMO.

Like Scott said... release the flight manifests. Show who went to the island and how often, or associated with him in other potentially dubious ways.

a564aafa9ab51f369a2d6b3b2ad8f008.jpg
 
Red Leg said:
Because the farther right, and no small number of folks here, have been so certain about a Epstein murder cover-up and the "client list," I wonder if this will represent an existential crisis in trust for the true believers. According to Bondi, Patel, Bongino, and we must assume the President, the MSM reporting on Epstein seems to have been essentially accurate. The DOJ has concluded he killed himself and that there is no actual client or potential blackmail list to release. :E Hmmm:

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This seems like a classic case of misdirection. The Epstein list is sort of an irrelevant, theoretical ledger or document. What people really mean is they would like to see the compiled evidence of his associates, who frequented the island, etc.

About a month ago James O'Keefe Media Group got AG Bondi on video stating there was no conclusion to the case because of "tens of thousands" of videos. AG Bondi went on the record about 2-3 days later with a similar statement on the record.

So is there an Epstein list? Sure. Its a spreadsheet compiled by the FBI as they attempt to sort out the actual question of who the hell was a frequent co-pervert with Epstein. Claiming there is no list is a literalist approach to quiet down the very real noise due to how broad, multi-party, and international Epstein's shenanigans go.

I don't think that's tinfoil hat talk, where there is smoke there is fire. Melinda Gates was grossed out enough about what she knew that she divorced Bill. Heck, even quadrapalegic Dr. Stephen Hawking was alleged to have participated in underage orgies by Guiffre in her lawsuit. (a photo proved his presence at the compound taken in 2006)

This is all misdirection in the same way they'll say "there is zero, and we mean ZERO evidence of orgies" (which they'll state in fine print means group sex with grapes served, therefore no grapes, no orgy)
 
rookhawk said:
This seems like a classic case of misdirection. The Epstein list is sort of an irrelevant, theoretical ledger or document. What people really mean is they would like to see the compiled evidence of his associates, who frequented the island, etc.

About a month ago James O'Keefe Media Group got AG Bondi on video stating there was no conclusion to the case because of "tens of thousands" of videos. AG Bondi went on the record about 2-3 days later with a similar statement on the record.

So is there an Epstein list? Sure. Its a spreadsheet compiled by the FBI as they attempt to sort out the actual question of who the hell was a frequent co-pervert with Epstein. Claiming there is no list is a literalist approach to quiet down the very real noise due to how broad, multi-party, and international Epstein's shenanigans go.

I don't think that's tinfoil hat talk, where there is smoke there is fire. Melinda Gates was grossed out enough about what she knew that she divorced Bill. Heck, even quadrapalegic Dr. Stephen Hawking was alleged to have participated in underage orgies by Guiffre in her lawsuit. (a photo proved his presence at the compound taken in 2006)

This is all misdirection in the same way they'll say "there is zero, and we mean ZERO evidence of orgies" (which they'll state in fine print means group sex with grapes served, therefore no grapes, no orgy)
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I believe the USA is keeping this quiet because it exposes the intelligence penetration and antics of Israel; Ghislane Maxwells father was alleged to have been a Mossad operative and also had very serious issues with financial crimes related to his companies...... Most of this came out after he mysteriously fell off his own yacht and drowned.

Why else would a former Israeli PM meet more than 30 times with Epstein AFTER he was a convicted pedophile?

We do know from club records that Trump terminated Epstein's membership from Mar a Lago; and the time line matches up with the accusations for making sexual advances to the teenage daughter of another member as well as a staff member.

We do know of one former president that disclosed he had ridden on Epstein's plane twice, but later discovered it was at least 22 flights with him.

Screenshot 2025-07-07 143327.png


The same president that paid $850K to Paula Jones to settle her allegations; although the deposition from that case also led to the discovery of the Monica Lewinsky scandal.
 
deewayne2003 said:
I believe the USA is keeping this quiet because it exposes the intelligence penetration and antics of Israel; Ghislane Maxwells father was alleged to have been a Mossad operative and also had very serious issues with financial crimes related to his companies...... Most of this came out after he mysteriously fell off his own yacht and drowned.

Why else would a former Israeli PM meet more than 30 times with Epstein AFTER he was a convicted pedophile?

We do know from club records that Trump terminated Epstein's membership from Mar a Lago; and the time line matches up with the accusations for making sexual advances to the teenage daughter of another member as well as a staff member.

We do know of one former president that disclosed he had ridden on Epstein's plane twice, but later discovered it was at least 22 flights with him.

View attachment 697647

The same president that paid $850K to Paula Jones to settle her allegations; although the deposition from that case also led to the discovery of the Monica Lewinsky scandal.
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Epstein and Bill Clinton were absolute buddies. This is a painting that Jeffery Epstein had prominently displayed in his office:

1751917874336.png
 
rookhawk said:
Epstein and Bill Clinton were absolute buddies. This is a painting that Jeffery Epstein had prominently displayed in his office:

View attachment 697648
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Yes sir they were buddies or at least they started that way.

I have seen that painting before and I take it as Epstein not so quietly saying "I own your ass!.....buddy"
 
I generally worry about Truthers - 911, Apollo Landings, Sandy Hook, Alien tech, and Epstein included. :cool:
 
Red Leg said:
Because the farther right, and no small number of folks here, have been so certain about a Epstein murder cover-up and the "client list," I wonder if this will represent an existential crisis in trust for the true believers. According to Bondi, Patel, Bongino, and we must assume the President, the MSM reporting on Epstein seems to have been essentially accurate. The DOJ has concluded he killed himself and that there is no actual client or potential blackmail list to release. :E Hmmm:

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No rational person believes the President or MSM are truthful without evidence. :A Big Thanx:
 
Red Leg said:
I generally worry about Truthers - 911, Apollo Landings, Sandy Hook, Alien tech, and Epstein included. :cool:
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It is interesting you mention all of those (let’s throw JFK in too to complete the bouquet)

All of those have one bonafide fact in common. At minimum, government agencies creating cover ups or messing around with the general populace.

Apollo? Pre-recorded videos being shown as actual mission footage plus consultation with Stanley Kubrick. That’s what we know, and it causes “in for a penny, in for a pound” conspiracies to stack on top of incongruities.

Alien tech and Area 51? We know a military colonel went into a local bar and gave them a fake alien photo as a psyop for the locals. He admitted to doing it so the military could see what happens.

Epstein? It is what it is. He was heavily affiliated with movers and shakers and he was a pervert. His associates were US and mossad intelligence.

JFK? At minimum, agencies broke protocols with one another fostering distrust and skepticism. (E.g. forcing his return to Andrew’s rather than local autopsy)

911? Dancing Israelis is real. Those moving company employees were dancing and recording the events. They all were believed associated with mossad. None remained in the country. WT7 was believed to be controlled demolition, the owner said on PbS they made the decision to “pull it”.

You cannot fault people from going beyond the facts, but the facts in all the above have problematic edges that may just be incompetence plus somewhat benign misinformation. The government and intelligence agencies at minimum f-up history because they decide to tell a few lies that cause concerns for the greater truth. It instills distrust in government.
 
rookhawk said:
It is interesting you mention all of those (let’s throw JFK in too to complete the bouquet)

All of those have one bonafide fact in common. At minimum, government agencies creating cover ups or messing around with the general populace.

Apollo? Pre-recorded videos being shown as actual mission footage plus consultation with Stanley Kubrick. That’s what we know, and it causes “in for a penny, in for a pound” conspiracies to stack on top of incongruities.

Alien tech and Area 51? We know a military colonel went into a local bar and gave them a fake alien photo as a psyop for the locals. He admitted to doing it so the military could see what happens.

Epstein? It is what it is. He was heavily affiliated with movers and shakers and he was a pervert. His associates were US and mossad intelligence.

JFK? At minimum, agencies broke protocols with one another fostering distrust and skepticism. (E.g. forcing his return to Andrew’s rather than local autopsy)

911? Dancing Israelis is real. Those moving company employees were dancing and recording the events. They all were believed associated with mossad. None remained in the country. WT7 was believed to be controlled demolition, the owner said on PbS they made the decision to “pull it”.

You cannot fault people from going beyond the facts, but the facts in all the above have problematic edges that may just be incompetence plus somewhat benign misinformation. The government and intelligence agencies at minimum f-up history because they decide to tell a few lies that cause concerns for the greater truth. It instills distrust in government.
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I absolutely, genuinely, truly and in all good humor find that logic and "evidence" somewhat nuts.

Let's take Apollo which has been a popular target of the conspiracy kooks.

Grok offers a good summary of how silly it is.

No credible evidence supports the claim that pre-recorded videos were used as actual mission footage for the Apollo moon landings. The Apollo program, which successfully landed humans on the Moon between 1969 and 1972, produced extensive documentation, including live television broadcasts, photographs, lunar samples, and telemetry data, all corroborated by multiple independent sources.Key Points Disproving the Claim:
  1. Live Broadcasts and Real-Time Data:
    • Apollo missions were broadcast live on global television networks, with millions of viewers watching in real time. These broadcasts included interactions between astronauts and Mission Control, which were responsive to real-time events (e.g., Apollo 11’s landing sequence).
    • The signals for these broadcasts were received by radio telescopes worldwide, including independent observatories in Australia (Parkes Observatory) and Spain (Madrid Deep Space Communication Complex). Faking such signals would require extraordinary coordination and deception across multiple nations and organizations.
  2. Physical Evidence:
    • Apollo missions returned 382 kilograms of lunar rocks and soil, which have been studied extensively and confirmed to be of lunar origin. These samples have unique isotopic and chemical signatures not found in Earth rocks, verified by scientists globally.
    • Retroreflectors placed on the lunar surface by Apollo 11, 14, and 15 are still used today for laser-ranging experiments, confirming their presence on the Moon.
  3. Third-Party Verification:
    • The Soviet Union, a rival during the Space Race, never disputed the Apollo achievements despite having the means to detect and verify U.S. lunar missions through radar, telemetry, and intelligence.
    • Independent organizations, such as the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO), have photographed Apollo landing sites, showing tracks, equipment, and other artifacts consistent with the missions.
  4. Challenges of Faking Footage:
    • Claims of pre-recorded footage often cite inconsistencies in lighting, shadows, or motion in videos. These have been repeatedly debunked:
      • Lighting and Shadows: The Moon’s lack of atmosphere causes sharp shadows and diffuse lighting from reflected sunlight, which can appear unusual but is consistent with lunar conditions.
      • Slow-Motion Movement: Astronauts’ movements in low gravity (1/6th of Earth’s) were accurately depicted, with dust and objects falling at the expected rate for the Moon’s gravity.
      • Technological Limitations: In the 1960s, creating convincing pre-recorded footage with the level of detail in Apollo videos (e.g., dust behavior, complex lighting) would have been nearly impossible with the available technology.
    • Simulating the lunar environment (vacuum, low gravity, and unique lighting) in a studio setting would have required resources and secrecy far exceeding the actual missions’ complexity.
  5. Conspiracy Claims Lack Substantiation:
    • Allegations of pre-recorded footage often stem from conspiracy theories popularized by films like Capricorn One (1978) or books claiming NASA staged the landings. These claims rely on perceived visual anomalies but lack primary evidence, such as whistleblower testimony, leaked documents, or physical proof of a soundstage.
    • The scale of the alleged cover-up would have required thousands of people—NASA employees, contractors, scientists, and international partners—to remain silent, which is highly improbable.
Addressing Specific Claims:
  • Stanley Kubrick Involvement: A persistent myth suggests filmmaker Stanley Kubrick staged the landings, citing his work on 2001: A Space Odyssey. There is no evidence supporting this, and Kubrick’s film used entirely different techniques (e.g., models and front projection) that don’t match Apollo footage.
  • Waving Flag: The flag’s movement is explained by the lack of atmosphere and the flag’s wire frame, causing it to flutter in a vacuum when disturbed.
  • Missing Stars in Photos: Stars are not visible in most Apollo photos due to camera exposure settings optimized for bright lunar surfaces, a well-understood photographic principle.
Conclusion:The Apollo moon landings are supported by overwhelming evidence—physical, visual, and testimonial—verified by independent sources worldwide. Claims of pre-recorded footage lack credible evidence and are contradicted by the scientific record, technological constraints, and the sheer scale of coordination required for such a hoax. For further exploration, primary sources like NASA’s Apollo archives or peer-reviewed studies on lunar samples provide robust documentation.If you have a specific piece of footage or claim you’d like analyzed, please provide details, and I can evaluate it further, including checking X posts or web sources for context if needed.






 
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