Questions about the African Carry and Others

[Doug3006]

Like the poster, I’ve also taught firearms safety courses, been a rifle instructor and RSO. That said, I try hard to not be a ”safety Nazi.” We all know these types. They react to even the slightest lapse of the rules as if the person just mowed down a family of five! They also seem to derive some feeling of superiority by pointing out everyone else’s Infractions. They have driven more than a few new shooters from the sport.

That said,I must call out the African Carry as a violation of the most basic firearm handling rule…don’t point the muzzle at anything you don’t intend to destroy.

The first guy in line (sometimes but not always the PH) might be ok. The muzzle is pointed to the front and so an unintended discharge wont hurt anyone. Anyone behind the leader is at least occasionally covering the person in front of them. No es bueno.

 

[IvW]

Like the poster, I’ve also taught firearms safety courses, been a rifle instructor and RSO. That said, I try hard to not be a ”safety Nazi.” We all know these types. They react to even the slightest lapse of the rules as if the person just mowed down a family of five! They also seem to derive some feeling of superiority by pointing out everyone else’s Infractions. They have driven more than a few new shooters from the sport.

That said,I must call out the African Carry as a violation of the most basic firearm handling rule…don’t point the muzzle at anything you don’t intend to destroy.

The first guy in line (sometimes but not always the PH) might be ok. The muzzle is pointed to the front and so an unintended discharge wont hurt anyone. Anyone behind the leader is at least occasionally covering the person in front of them. No es bueno.

Typically there will be 1 or 2 trackers ahead of the PH until the sticks go up....

 

[Zambezi]

There is a lot of talk of "speed" in bringing the rifle into the firing position. As I stated from the start the african carry is used when long distance walking and at port when engaging. OBVIOULSY african carry by nature of the above will mean there is no chambered round, safety on and bolt probably not engaged. There seems to be this pervading idea that you have to bring your rifle to bear in a millionth of a second... this is not warfare and you're not about to be devoured by legion of the marauding big 5.

I fail to see how an UNCHAMBERED weapon with safety on and fingers faaaar away from the trigger can pose a threat. Believe me I have spent enough time (but far less than many) to say it is probably one of the the safest carry methods.

If you or PH is sloppy in the bush regarding having a safe rifle then I don't want any of you in front, behind or near me.

Each to their own. If the PH wants a certain carry or other safety conditions then I'll go along with his wishes.

 

[Red Leg]

There is a lot of talk of "speed" in bringing the rifle into the firing position. As I stated from the start the african carry is used when long distance walking and at port when engaging. OBVIOULSY african carry by nature of the above will mean there is no chambered round, safety on and bolt probably not engaged. There seems to be this pervading idea that you have to bring your rifle to bear in a millionth of a second... this is not warfare and you're not about to be devoured by legion of the marauding big 5.

I fail to see how an UNCHAMBERED weapon with safety on and fingers faaaar away from the trigger can pose a threat. Believe me I have spent enough time (but far less than many) to say it is probably one of the the safest carry methods.

If you or PH is sloppy in the bush regarding having a safe rifle then I don't want any of you in front, behind or near me.

Each to their own. If the PH wants a certain carry or other safety conditions then I'll go along with his wishes.

Except - the vast majority of those rifles - regardless of type - are being carried with a round or rounds in the chamber. And frankly, they should be in pursuit of DG just like a SxS shotgun is loaded and ready walking up quail or pheasants. That, to me at least, is what makes the African carry so egregious.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

There is a lot of talk of "speed" in bringing the rifle into the firing position. As I stated from the start the african carry is used when long distance walking and at port when engaging. OBVIOULSY african carry by nature of the above will mean there is no chambered round, safety on and bolt probably not engaged. There seems to be this pervading idea that you have to bring your rifle to bear in a millionth of a second... this is not warfare and you're not about to be devoured by legion of the marauding big 5.

I fail to see how an UNCHAMBERED weapon with safety on and fingers faaaar away from the trigger can pose a threat. Believe me I have spent enough time (but far less than many) to say it is probably one of the the safest carry methods.

If you or PH is sloppy in the bush regarding having a safe rifle then I don't want any of you in front, behind or near me.

Each to their own. If the PH wants a certain carry or other safety conditions then I'll go along with his wishes.

For me it comes down to this: I know where your muzzle is pointed. I may believe you that the chamber is empty and after enough time, I may even trust you to keep your fingers off the trigger. But the only thing I know is where that muzzle is pointed.

 

[Zambezi]

I hear the concerns. And maybe there COULD be a round in the chamber but that comes down to sloppy communication and rifle safety but it is IMPOSSIBLE, I repeat IMPOSSIBLE, to African carry with your finger anywhere near the trigger...

On the other hand you can have some yahoo with rifle at port with a round chambered, finger on or near the trigger and the barrel pointing at or near your head or ass.

 

[Doug3006]

A finger pulling the trigger is not the only possibility. The brush presents its own dangers, like branches, vines, etc.

I always tell people that muzzle control is the one rule to memorize if one rule is all you can remember. If the muzzle is NOT pointed at anything important, then no matter what else happens, no one gets hurt.

 

[Zambezi]

I'm not arguing any preferred method... vines and bushes can also pull a trigger when twisting in and around bushes. Without doubt a muzzle often sweeps the person in front no matter how careful one thinks they are, no matter the carry option. On the flip side African carry doesn't necessarily mean that the muzzle is pointed directly at the person in front. It takes muzzle awareness no matter the carry.

I've seen many "experienced" people display poor safety in the bush relating to carry method, muzzle safety, safety off, locked and loaded. All things considered the finger near the trigger accounts for probably 99% of AD or human wounding.

I'm sure several score will come out and tell stories of someone in their party that had a branch or vine pull the trigger. I'd hazard a guess half the time they are talking crap and covering for their own negligence, telling secondhand stories or producing them to support their argument.

But I have heard on this forum in trip reports etc of PH / trackers / etc shot in the ass because someone had their finger on the trigger "accidently".

 

[JG26Irish_2]

Sling weak shoulder left side barrel down left hand on front wood. Lift slightly swivel and bring forward and up into shooting shoulder. Simple fast effective and comfortable to carry.

If terrain becomes thick or action is close at hand qd detach sling and rifle in hands.

I have to agree with you Brother. To me this is the best, safe way when hunting in a group and not in the #1 lead position. It is safe, fast and easy to learn. You do need to pay attention to where the muzzle goes as you deploy from the slung position but that should apply to the rifle at all times anyway.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

I’d counter this by asking what you’d do on a hunt where the PH does carry the rifle using an African carry? I see no quicker way to ruin a hunt than telling the PH how to carry his rifle. I’d prefer to carry my rifle slung on my shoulder but I don’t find the African carry as unacceptable as some seem to in this discussion particularly for the PH.

Typically, I would expect the PH to be the man at the front of the hunting party. In that position I see no issue with the African carry for the #1 man only. If I were the man in the #1 position, I would take issue with any other person in the party who is pointing his or her muzzle at my back regardless of which way they choose to carry their rifle. It is my job as the client to have this conversation with the PH before we go to the field and to sort out any kinks at that time. I would hope that the PH would also want to get some feel for the client's gun handling skill or lack thereof early on as well and appreciate my concern for both his safety and my own. The main thing is to manage those risk variables as best we can and muzzle discipline is one of the methods to do so. Just so you all know, I have used the African carry when toting my long range match rifle from the firing line to the cleaning tables in between match relays. Those rifles have no sling and are usually heavy. But they bolts are removed and even then if other persons are nearby, I would be sure to point the muzzle away from them or up to avoid sweeping others with my muzzle. So, it does have its place and trekking in front with a large heavy double rifle with no sling might be one of those times.

 

[375Fox]

Typically, I would expect the PH to be the man at the front of the hunting party. In that position I see no issue with the African carry for the #1 man only. If I were the man in the #1 position, I would take issue with any other person in the party who is pointing his or her muzzle at my back regardless of which way they choose to carry their rifle. It is my job as the client to have this conversation with the PH before we go to the field and to sort out any kinks at that time. I would hope that the PH would also want to get some feel for the client's gun handling skill or lack thereof early on as well and appreciate my concern for both his safety and my own. The main thing is to manage those risk variables as best we can and muzzle discipline is one of the methods to do so. Just so you all know, I have used the African carry when toting my long range match rifle from the firing line to the cleaning tables in between match relays. Those rifles have no sling and are usually heavy. But they bolts are removed and even then if other persons are nearby, I would be sure to point the muzzle away from them or up to avoid sweeping others with my muzzle. So, it does have its place and trekking in front with a large heavy double rifle with no sling might be one of those times.

I did the African carry for 9 days because my sling failed to arrive and there were no slings in camp. I’ve hunted with several PHs using the African carry on their doubles. The rifle periodically gets passed to the trackers for a break and they use the African carry as well. Chambers stay loaded in a dangerous game area. If I were a PH I would not want my clients using an African carry, however as a client I’m not going to tell my PH what to do and not do with his rifle unless there is a blatant safety violation. The game scout’s AK47 concerns me much more than the African carry. I have asked them to show me the chamber is empty before.

 

[Mark R]

Pretty sure the African Carry started when hunters gun bearers carried the hunters heavy double in the front whilst tracking. It was thus easy for the hunter to remove it from the gun bearer for fast use. I personally don’t use it…..

 

[steve white]

If the PH wants to walk in front of me with an African carry, I have no issue. But neither he nor anyone else is going to walk behind me with that carry.

I shall simply note again. For safety reasons, any hunter attempting such a carry with a double on any guided upland hunt on this continent or Europe would be asked to correct his carry immediately, and should he persist, would be sent packing.

Indeed, I also can't imagine a guide tolerating such rifle handling on any big game hunt on this continent or Europe.


There is no such thing as a "bank vault" safety no matter what the gun cost. A loaded firearm is exactly that, and the muzzle should never cross anything but an intended target. It is hard to imagine a carry more likely to violate that basic safety rule than a firearm in African carry in a line of people.

Might I piggy-back a thought, hopefully not OT? The number one faux pas I see in the pheasant fields is fatigued hunters carrying their shotguns in the crook of the left arm. This points their gun almost directly to the side. If they fall back a few paces from the line, they are sweeping that line of hunters. To make things worse, they then do a lot of the lifting of the shotgun with the right hand on the wrist of the shotgun. Sympathtic finger grip with the trigger finger, plus maybe the finger on the trigger causes AD. Lifting a gun by the wrist/trigger guard is always a risk in my book. That especially counts when taking a rifle from a slip.
BTW, anyone use a leather butt rest on the belt? That provides carry help and keeps things muzzle-up.

 

[Roller]

Might I piggy-back a thought, hopefully not OT? The number one faux pas I see in the pheasant fields is fatigued hunters carrying their shotguns in the crook of the left arm. This points their gun almost directly to the side. If they fall back a few paces from the line, they are sweeping that line of hunters. To make things worse, they then do a lot of the lifting of the shotgun with the right hand on the wrist of the shotgun. Sympathtic finger grip with the trigger finger, plus maybe the finger on the trigger causes AD. Lifting a gun by the wrist/trigger guard is always a risk in my book. That especially counts when taking a rifle from a slip.
BTW, anyone use a leather butt rest on the belt? That provides carry help and keeps things muzzle-up.

Concur . I have seen (and been verbal about) more unsafe gun handling while upland hunting that I have anywhere else in the world (Africa, Iraq, and Afghanistan combined). It's the not the carry method, it's the egghead behind the gun.

 

[Tam Dl]

If the PH wants to walk in front of me with an African carry, I have no issue. But neither he nor anyone else is going to walk behind me with that carry.

I shall simply note again. For safety reasons, any hunter attempting such a carry with a double on any guided upland hunt on this continent or Europe would be asked to correct his carry immediately, and should he persist, would be sent packing.

Indeed, I also can't imagine a guide tolerating such rifle handling on any big game hunt on this continent or Europe.


There is no such thing as a "bank vault" safety no matter what the gun cost. A loaded firearm is exactly that, and the muzzle should never cross anything but an intended target. It is hard to imagine a carry more likely to violate that basic safety rule than a firearm in African carry in a line of people.

Of course there is, in principle, not literally a bank vault, of course. The existence of a massive safety that blocks all possible modes of release is a fact. What you do with it is another mater.

Safeties exist because firearms are loaded, not because those who designed them believe they magically unloaded rifles.

Just to get it out there, I am a believer in the 4 rules, and believe, I hope correctly, that muzzle discipline is the greatest of these.

That said, let's not forget this is also a political mater. Which is to say there is a slide to nonsense ideas. Gun banners would like to make firearms inoperable while they wait for ultimate victory, and would like to impose disarming safety features on shooter. Decoder rings, and such. This has led to the religion around "my finger is my safety". I get it, preach it to the cheap seats. If you watch gun videos, the tactical guys are on and off their safeties like a squirrel on crack. Presumably for some reason. Those safeties probably don't hold a candle to the Mauser safety in their "bank vaultness" Do AR safeties block the trigger and the firing pin with convincingly machined parts? (I don't own one).

It would be interesting to see who makes the finals in the Darwin awards, people relying on finger control, or people with bank vault safeties, equally properly deployed. Of course, one can use both.

PS, I do maintenance on the brakes of my US and Japanese cars. If I had to bet my life on the brake mechanism, or the safety of "best" rifles, I would bet on the safeties, they are that well built.

PPS, I am not familiar with the decocker safeties on guns like the R8, but they seem a substantial step ahead of previous technology. I don't know if they are as bank vaulty, or have a lot of loose and stamped parts in them. But in principle those guns are unfireable when decocked with a round in the chamber. The problem for the PH is whether he knows those guns are on safe, given that they may be in the hands of profoundly untested people, the guns don't flag their condition.

PPPS, Pretending that well thought out safeties are not something to rely on, is probably not in our interest either.

PPPPS I agree that pointing a muzzle at a guy is unacceptable, and I do recall the few occasions when it has happened, with distaste. That said, try riding a bicycle in a world with drivers on their phones. Sometimes I have to pay up, when I didn't authorize the payment, just to enjoy the sports I like. We sure are lucky in hunting that one can normally work out such maters far more effectively.

 

[Tam Dl]

Might I piggy-back a thought, hopefully not OT? The number one faux pas I see in the pheasant fields is fatigued hunters carrying their shotguns in the crook of the left arm. This points their gun almost directly to the side. If they fall back a few paces from the line, they are sweeping that line of hunters. To make things worse, they then do a lot of the lifting of the shotgun with the right hand on the wrist of the shotgun. Sympathtic finger grip with the trigger finger, plus maybe the finger on the trigger causes AD. Lifting a gun by the wrist/trigger guard is always a risk in my book. That especially counts when taking a rifle from a slip.
BTW, anyone use a leather butt rest on the belt? That provides carry help and keeps things muzzle-up.

I have looked down that barrel...

 

[Tam Dl]

I was never comfortable with the African carry method. With a background in the military and upbringing from my grandfather, such flippant muzzle discipline would have been dealt with swift consequences.

When did the 4 rules take over? If one looks at war footage, people have their fingers on the trigger while the sights are on their team members during the Vietnam war. The military was well aware, by the end of WWII that 20% of casualties were accidental, including stuff like car accidents, and shootings.

 

[Tam Dl]

Some of this stuff falls into the "what, are they stupid" category. I know of cases where people shot their dogs, killed someone crossing a fence, or shot their kid in the woods. We got the word out, and most people now know how to manage these situations. The question would be if you were an African hunter who fought in half dozen wars, and hunted "Africa" your whole life, etc... Are you willing to kill off a ton of your relatives and clients because of how you carry a rifle? "What? are you stupid?" Failed to notice all the stories in the papers, and people just killing others off, all across Africa, as in the upper class twit skit in Monty Python?

Or possibly, they just haven't been killing each other as often as the theoreticians would like to believe? One of the great tings about the US and Canada is there isn't excess bureaucracy, as much as we like to complain about it. When we met, my wife was getting a guides license in NB, the test for which required her to answer the question "name 3 foods that deer eat". In a lot of the rest of the world, getting a gun or guide license requires a lot more schooling than that.

 

[BeeMaa]

When did the 4 rules take over? If one looks at war footage, people have their fingers on the trigger while the sights are on their team members during the Vietnam war. The military was well aware, by the end of WWII that 20% of casualties were accidental, including stuff like car accidents, and shootings.

The four rules of gun safety came about in the mid-1960's by Jeff Cooper. Another quote that may help you out...“Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” Winston Churchill.

Feel free to carry your firearm in any manner you wish as I will not be present.

 

[Tam Dl]

I read about this gruesome accident where two guys were hunting with longbows. One guy trips, and his back quiver takes off over his shoulder, an arrow goes to ground, and he stumbled into it. Apparently the only reason he survived was his partner was a surgeon.

Now replace the back quiver with a rifle in African Carry. Goes off the shoulder, butt to the ground, and the gun goes off. With bad luck more than one person might fall victim.