Questions about the African Carry and Others

[Neil Molendyk]

i am very aware of how people handle their weapons and where there hands and fingers are.

On my limited (3) occasions when hunting in Africa, three different safari outfitters (PH's). the PH and I had conversations about firearms safety and they expressed their observations and suggestions. I believe that a good PH can soon see how the client handles his firearm and their competence with it.

 

[steve white]

I cannot fathom how the African carry is faster than the Rhodesian carry--for me it is not, anyway. But to claim African carry is better in brushy conditions overlooks the danger of that brush itself snatching at the trigger.
The larger issue is KEEP YOUR BLASTED FINGER AWAY FROM THE TRIGGER!!, I have never seen an AD where this was not the case. At port arms I often cover the whole trigger guard with my palm. Just try to touch off the trigger that way--almost impossible, and no outside way to snag it, either. YMMV Good hunting.

 

[steve white]

Am I the only one who's hesitant to carry with muzzle hanging a foot or so straight above dirt? Gad, over the years my shotgun barrel has snagged plenty of mud and debris carried under my arm at an angle to the ground. I don't worry too much about it. I can and have easily cleared my A5's barrel by removing it and blowing/cleaning it. Just a few weeks ago I had to clear it with a willow branch and a wad of raspberry leaves. Mess up a rifle barrel muzzle and that gun may be done until a gunsmith can put a new crown on it. That's not happening in the field!

Well, there's another vote for the early Mannlicher Schoenauers--they had a trap door butt with a cleaning rod--instant solutions for mud.

 

[Tam Dl]

I always figured the shoulder carry was a double gun thing, with the wider lower stability of the two barrels. Plus "best" guns have bank vault safeties not the cruddy afterthoughts a lot of otherwise excellent rifles have. A lot of martial weapons also have real safeties. Hefty machined pieces intercepting heavily machined hunks of hammer, or pin. I get the idea that "your finger is the safety", at least until you trip. But the fact that a lot of the safeties suck is also part of the picture.

 

[Tam Dl]

Well, there's another vote for the early Mannlicher Schoenauers--they had a trap door butt with a cleaning rod--instant solutions for mud.

Better still, take your biathlon rifle on your next DG hunt.

 

[WAB]

So let me ask a question of those who use a SxS or OU shotgun for hunting quail or pheasants over pointers. Who would tolerate a member of the party carrying his gun in an African carry? The answer, if you have done it more than once, is no one. It would be considered entirely too unsafe among a party of hunters and often their guide.

I see no difference with Africa, and all you have to do is watch a few "training films" on the Sportsman Channel to realize the inherent danger of such a carry. I too use the muzzle down, weak side carry that @IvW suggests. It is as quick as port arms, and done correctly the left arm is already in a hasty sling. The rifle rides in such a way that it is almost impossible to snag. I have never remotely had an issue sticking a muzzle in the dirt. Were I mucking through three feet of snow, it could be an issue, but then I would have tape on the muzzle and I would not be in Africa. I also should note that Len Taylor, one of Zim's more renowned PH's uses this carry almost exclusively.

With @PeteG on @spike.t Mike Taylor's Takeri.

View attachment 568235

Len is as good as it gets, and man can he chew up the miles with that Lott hanging on his shoulder!

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Well, there's another vote for the early Mannlicher Schoenauers--they had a trap door butt with a cleaning rod--instant solutions for mud.

Mauser also offered the feature on a stutzen model:

Stoeger, 1939

 

[375Fox]

So let me ask a question of those who use a SxS or OU shotgun for hunting quail or pheasants over pointers. Who would tolerate a member of the party carrying his gun in an African carry? The answer, if you have done it more than once, is no one. It would be considered entirely too unsafe among a party of hunters and often their guide.

I see no difference with Africa, and all you have to do is watch a few "training films" on the Sportsman Channel to realize the inherent danger of such a carry. I too use the muzzle down, weak side carry that @IvW suggests. It is as quick as port arms, and done correctly the left arm is already in a hasty sling. The rifle rides in such a way that it is almost impossible to snag. I have never remotely had an issue sticking a muzzle in the dirt. Were I mucking through three feet of snow, it could be an issue, but then I would have tape on the muzzle and I would not be in Africa. I also should note that Len Taylor, one of Zim's more renowned PH's uses this carry almost exclusively.

With @PeteG on @spike.t Mike Taylor's Takeri.

View attachment 568235

I’d counter this by asking what you’d do on a hunt where the PH does carry the rifle using an African carry? I see no quicker way to ruin a hunt than telling the PH how to carry his rifle. I’d prefer to carry my rifle slung on my shoulder but I don’t find the African carry as unacceptable as some seem to in this discussion particularly for the PH.

 

[grand veneur]

I don't understand why people bother on such details. Otherwise, many want to play the role of great African hunters, walking and hunting in the bush with double rifles like their illustrious predecessors. Then they should also carry the rifles like these one have done that.

 

[KTMpilot]

I cannot fathom how the African carry is faster than the Rhodesian carry--for me it is not, anyway. But to claim African carry is better in brushy conditions overlooks the danger of that brush itself snatching at the trigger.
The larger issue is KEEP YOUR BLASTED FINGER AWAY FROM THE TRIGGER!!, I have never seen an AD where this was not the case. At port arms I often cover the whole trigger guard with my palm. Just try to touch off the trigger that way--almost impossible, and no outside way to snag it, either. YMMV Good hunting.

 

[BeeMaa]

I was never comfortable with the African carry method. With a background in the military and upbringing from my grandfather, such flippant muzzle discipline would have been dealt with swift consequences.

I carry with a sling on my weak side shoulder and barrel forward. Weak side hand on the barrel leaving the strong side hand for binos slung under the strong side arm.

This gives complete control of the firearm and with a quick flip, the sling is off my shoulder and the rifle comes across my body to be mounted for shooting. My PH really liked this method and it was something we discussed while sighting in our rifles.

 

[Red Leg]

I’d counter this by asking what you’d do on a hunt where the PH does carry the rifle using an African carry? I see no quicker way to ruin a hunt than telling the PH how to carry his rifle. I’d prefer to carry my rifle slung on my shoulder but I don’t find the African carry as unacceptable as some seem to in this discussion particularly for the PH.

If the PH wants to walk in front of me with an African carry, I have no issue. But neither he nor anyone else is going to walk behind me with that carry.

I shall simply note again. For safety reasons, any hunter attempting such a carry with a double on any guided upland hunt on this continent or Europe would be asked to correct his carry immediately, and should he persist, would be sent packing.

Indeed, I also can't imagine a guide tolerating such rifle handling on any big game hunt on this continent or Europe.

I always figured the shoulder carry was a double gun thing, with the wider lower stability of the two barrels. Plus "best" guns have bank vault safeties not the cruddy afterthoughts a lot of otherwise excellent rifles have. A lot of martial weapons also have real safeties. Hefty machined pieces intercepting heavily machined hunks of hammer, or pin. I get the idea that "your finger is the safety", at least until you trip. But the fact that a lot of the safeties suck is also part of the picture.

There is no such thing as a "bank vault" safety no matter what the gun cost. A loaded firearm is exactly that, and the muzzle should never cross anything but an intended target. It is hard to imagine a carry more likely to violate that basic safety rule than a firearm in African carry in a line of people.

 

[Bonk]

Just because someone is fanatical about safety doesn't mean they're more safe than others. An obsessive adherence to a set of rules doesn't make you more safe it just makes you more obsessive. Common sense should be the order of the day. I frankly don't care how someone else carries as long as they're being attentive and safe. Being attentive and safe can change depending on the circumstances and the experience of the hunter.

Guns are inanimate objects. They won't fire by themselves regardless of how you're carrying it. When it comes time to bring the rifle to bear and hands are moving towards triggers and safeties the level of attention to muzzle discipline becomes paramount. Until then the gun is just a paperweight. I'm not saying to not practice muzzle disciple but I am saying that if someone temporarily sweeps me while using the African carry I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

 

[mdwest]

I just keep it simple… if stalking for a reasonably short distance (a few hundred meters?) or if I know we are on final approach to where a shot is going to be taken from, the rifle is at the low ready position..

If I’m moving a long distance, I keep the rifle slung over the shoulder, muzzle up…

 

[fourfive8]

Yep, KISS principle works .. Any carry is to reduce fatigue while maintaining muzzle control. Of course I tried the over the shoulder barrel forward “Africa Carry” years ago. Decided quickly, that’s uncomfortable and kind of silly and what the heck with covering anyone in front!!- but hey it looks cool especially with double and all decked out in appropriate outfit.

Normally, it’s single file with tracker or two in lead followed by PH followed by hunter followed by packer (s). When covering ground, common for one of the lead trackers to carry PH’s rifle. I have never seen a tracker use the barrel forward “Africa Carry”. In the end use whatever you want just don’t cover me with the muzzle.

 

[Tom Leoni]

I am currently planning my first African Safari. As such I have become a student on the methods and practices used by successful hunters and PH's in the region. I have been watching a number of video's published by safari hunters and PH's over a range of subjects. But something has been bugging me and I would like to ask for the collective input of this community to clue me in.

Being a former licensed range safety officer I have had muzzle discipline safety drilled into me since I was a kid. "You never point your muzzle at anything or anyone that you are not willing to destroy." <snip>

I'm also an NRA chief range safety officer and firearms instructor, and muzzle discipline has been ingrained into me to the point that if anyone sweeps me with a firearm I get nervous, no matter the place or the circumstance. For the same reason, I go out of my way never to sweep others with mine--even when my rifle is unloaded with the action open.

I honestly don't see any value in the so-called African carry, save for having a good posed picture taken--I'll admit it adds that touch of coolness and (perhaps totally ersatz) authenticity. But apart from this, I can tell you that, were someone behind me to walk with his rifle-barrel directed at my back, I'd be uncomfortable.

I carry my rifle slung on my shoulder, or in the port-arms position. In cases when I have to tackle thick brush and I have to have my rifle horizontal and parallel to the path I take, I tell the member of the party in front or behind me (depending on the position of my muzzle) that my rifle is unloaded and I may even show them the empty chamber.

I'm not virtue-signaling, nor am I saying that everyone should do as I do. But this is what I choose to do after years of training and working with firearms. If African carry floats your boat and the other members in your party are cool with it, do it. My point is that, simply put, I don't see any practical value to it.

 

[IvW]

If the PH wants to walk in front of me with an African carry, I have no issue. But neither he nor anyone else is going to walk behind me with that carry.

I shall simply note again. For safety reasons, any hunter attempting such a carry with a double on any guided upland hunt on this continent or Europe would be asked to correct his carry immediately, and should he persist, would be sent packing.

Indeed, I also can't imagine a guide tolerating such rifle handling on any big game hunt on this continent or Europe.


There is no such thing as a "bank vault" safety no matter what the gun cost. A loaded firearm is exactly that, and the muzzle should never cross anything but an intended target. It is hard to imagine a carry more likely to violate that basic safety rule than a firearm in African carry in a line of people.

Exactly.....

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I tried the barrel forward, muzzle up, weak side method years ago when I saw another hunter doing it. Very quickly abandoned it. My strong side extends to my legs and with weight of gun shifted to the other side I noticed some balance issues, especially in rough country. Perhaps over time I could overcome this. But what I really didn't like was the barrel in sight. Maybe I would get used to that too but I doubt it. And lastly, with barrel forward the scope was sticking out there bumping into everything. With the barrel behind me, the scope and safety are mostly shielded by my body. Barrel behind on my weak left side kept the scope shielded but the bolt and safety got caught in clothing. The aftermarket Buhler style wing safety formerly on my Springfield was flakey and could be disengaged if the bolt was rattled. Sometimes I had to switch the gun to left side but if a round was in the chamber I was forever checking that safety. It's still a habit today long after that safety went to the scrap heap. Back then I hunted alone, typically tracking deer and elk in snow and steep country so less concerned about an accidental discharge hitting anyone. And carrying slung muzzle down was out of the question for obvious reasons.

At the end of a day of buffalo stalking we had a long walk out so I cross-slung my 404 across my back. When we were at the truck my very tall PH said he was impressed that a seventy year-old could keep pace with his long legs in that country. I asked him if he noticed how I carried my gun. "Yes, what's up with that?" I explained cross-slinging freed both arms allowing me to swing them in stride. It's called pendulum effect. I estimate it can conserve up to 30% energy. I am convinced that it saved my bacon for sure once and maybe more times. Worn out in rough country = injured in rough country. I was often hunting alone in subzero temps where even a sprained ankle can be deadly. A wrenched knee and I'm done for. In those situations every calorie counts.

 

[lawrence_court]

Each to their own. I'm fine with it, but I see the concern with it, too.

A ph I hunted with in Moz. told me about an ancient and incredibly experienced Zim. ph who'd had a tracker his whole career. A lifetime hunting together, and all the special relationship that makes. The ph had an negligent discharge and shot his tracker in the head due to an African carry mistake.

 

[Bonk]

Each to their own. I'm fine with it, but I see the concern with it, too.

Ditto.

I've never used it but I might in the future given the right circumstances.