Politics

[PARA45]

9mm is not the greatest fight ending round in the world.

Well, not according to our president.

"Joe Biden Says 9mm Bullet 'Blows The Lung Out of The Body"​

LMAO!!!!!!!

 

[Dragan N.]

@Dragan N.

I mistakenly referenced Vasper instead of @Foxi in one of my posts... My apologies to @Vashper.. The quote above was the one that I questioned the OP in regard to a nation's right to self-defense which he absolutely puts into question..

As far as your assessment of Germany or Japan being viewed as a plausible threat, I would ask the same of you? What exactly do you base that assessment on? According to how I read their comments, both Foxi and Vashper alluded that the threat was based on 80+ year old history of two governments and cultures that are all but extinct. I wouldn't confuse and remnants of Germany's post-WW2 arrogance with power... If you have any new, current facts that substantiate any plausible threats these two countries pose to world order I would leave to hear them.

As far any plausible threat from China, it's apples and elephants comparing China to Germany or Japan of today... China poses a real threat to global stability on every conceivable level.

There is a misunderstanding here i think.

If you read my previous post I clearly stated which countries may view German and Japanese rearmament as a threat. In the case of Germany it would likely be countries like Russia and Belarus. The reason for this is due to their historical experiences- the bloodbath of the Second World War on the Eastern front and also, this is important, that in contemporary times, Russia+Belarus and Germany are on opposing sides/military alliances. I.e. NATO vs. Russia.

China likely feels the same way about Japan for likely the same reasons.

I have never compared China to Germany and Japan. I merely referenced that China may view a rearmed Japan as a threat. Both due to historical experiences and also the fact that China and Japan are in today's world members of rival military alliances. Japan is a close ally of the US, China is America's biggest rival/competitor.

I would certainly agree with you that China is the biggest threat to America and the West as a whole. The reason for this is that China has a huge economy. Its P.P.P exceeds America's and its GDP is about 80% of America's. By 2030 it is expected to surpass America in GDP. For reference at the height of its power the Soviet Union's P.P.P was, at most, about 1/2 of America's and its GDP was 1/3rd. Economic might, especially in the modern world, is what largely determines military and geopolitical might.

However, the place where we disagree is that I do not think that China is a threat or a perceived threat to the world as a whole. I would not be surprised if many non-Western countries are happy that the world is becoming multi or bipolar again. And that America's hegemony is being challenged.

But if we solely talk about the West and America's security interests then i think we fully agree about the threat China poses.

 

[Dragan N.]

Well, not according to our president.

"Joe Biden Says 9mm Bullet 'Blows The Lung Out of The Body"​

LMAO!!!!!!!

This is someone whom the left/ anti gun acivists present as an "expert" on firearms:

Yet this man shoots an AR-15 like a 5 year old... Even though this Hertling is a retired general officer, (I am shocked), I would imagine he did not have a combat MOS....

 

[Foxi]

Conscription via Selective Service. Start with the million plus immigrants Merkel let into your country in 2015

as German soldiers,God forbid ?
The cooks in the Bundeswehr will probably have to retrain and concentrate on halal food

 

[Foxi]

Conscription is always an option.

You also have to want to fight.
It is not enough to put our green youth in green clothes.
The training is bleak, too.
For military night marches, if you bring a doctor's certificate, you are driven to the destination.....
You really have no idea what it's like here.

 

[Newboomer]

I would challenge anyone to place rounds on target from 40 yds..120 ft..under such stressful and life endangering circumstances to best his 80 per cent success. Using a Glock on a moving target within a collateral environment and no innocents were injured…a Damn Miracle. Vertigo BE nailed it. If we are to assume, which I believe that info has not been released, that he was using a 9mm at that range of 40 Yds, doubtful that one or two rounds would have terminated the threat unless a head or spinal column was hit. Keep firing until the threat is no longer, whether I or 17 shots.

Believe it or not, agree or disagree, it happened and has not been altered in any way. Fantastic shooting and the way one handles such a situation. So much for gun free zones. What would have happened if that young man had been unarmed? How many innocent lives would have been sacrified? He did the right thing whether he should or should not have been armed.

 

[Red Leg]

This is someone whom the left/ anti gun acivists present as an "expert" on firearms:

Yet this man shoots an AR-15 like a 5 year old... Even though this Hertling is a retired general officer, (I am shocked), I would imagine he did not have a combat MOS....

Got that whole general officer thing all figured out? Look I agree his technique blows and I am not sure about "full semi-automatic." But he is making a point that all of us should, I think, understand.

But a little background first. He was a cavalryman (armor officer and West Point graduate). Outstanding soldier. Holds a purple heart and four bronze stars among other awards. He was S3 (operations officer) of 1-1 Cav 1st Armored Div where he was wounded during the battle of Medina Ridge. A battle in which I was S3 of 75th Field Artillery Bde. We put about 150 MLRS rockets over his shoulder in support of that fight. He eventually commanded 1st Armored Division during the Surge in 07/08 in Iraq. Throughout his career he had a reputation as a soldier first focused commander - the antithesis of a political general. He finished up as the commanding general USAREUR. His rifle technique may not please you, but I bet he could still put a 120mm main gun round between your eyes at 3 klicks.

But with respect to the point he is making. There are indeed people in this country who have no business having access to an AR15 - many of whom are 17-25 year old wannabe's caught up in their own online and dysfunctional family fantasies. And we better help figure it out, or eventually, a large enough majority will sort it out for us.

 

[Newboomer]

This is someone whom the left/ anti gun acivists present as an "expert" on firearms:

Yet this man shoots an AR-15 like a 5 year old... Even though this Hertling is a retired general officer, (I am shocked), I would imagine he did not have a combat MOS....

Being an officer he probably did not come in very close contact very often, if ever, with the actual use of the rifle. If he did, he never learned the proper use and handling from the way he handled it in the video. Not the most accurate demonstration or narrative.

 

[Red Leg]

You also have to want to fight.
It is not enough to put our green youth in green clothes.
The training is bleak, too.
For military night marches, if you bring a doctor's certificate, you are driven to the destination.....
You really have no idea what it's like here.

The sad thing is that from the mid-seventies until the late eighties the Bundeswehr was a formidable force. Their new Leopard tanks were far better than our aging M-60's, their Marder IFV made our II3 look like a tin target on tracks, and their artillery was superb. I was liaison officer to the 12th Panzer Artillery during the Reforger exercise of '77 or 78 and watched a brigade of the division "destroy" the deployed elements of the 101st Abn. They were easily as good as any three Soviet Divisions they would have faced. Sadly, the collapse of the Soviet Union also heralded the collapse of the Bundeswehr. Soldiers were organized by labor unions, budgets were cut, the real professionals eventually retired and it is now a shadow of what it was.

 

[shootist~]

8 hits with a 9mm. I suppose he kept shooting until the guy was down, which means that the guy was upright until shot 6 or so. Nothing was said about the guy wearing body armor- so I must conclude that most of the hits were superficial until the last few that put him down and killed him. 40 yards or no, seems like a few well aimed shots would have been more effective if less sensational.

Armchair quarterback much?

 

[Areaonereal]

Believe it or not, agree or disagree, it happened and has not been altered in any way. Fantastic shooting and the way one handles such a situation. So much for gun free zones. What would have happened if that young man had been unarmed? How many innocent lives would have been sacrified? He did the right thing whether he should or should not have been armed.

My post reflected my belief and agreement that he did it and it was phenomenal marksmanship and that few, very few, well trained and experienced shooters could accomplish his shooting under those circumstances.

 

[fourfive8]

Whew! 40 yards, under stress, in a fluid situation- that many hits with a self defense handgun! Phenomenal shooting is an understatement. No matter luck or not.... good on him.

 

[BSO Dave]

However, the place where we disagree is that I do not think that China is a threat or a perceived threat to the world as a whole. I would not be surprised if many non-Western countries are happy that the world is becoming multi or bipolar again. And that America's hegemony is being challenged.

I appreciate you clarifying your assessment..
Here is mine..
Any country that does not perceive China as an existential threat is likely beholden to them in one way or another. They are likely economic slaves, pawns, or both. In any case, those countries you are referring to who welcome China's challenge of power to the United States are, in my view, enemies or bad actors at the very least. So, I could care less what their opinion of the United States is.

Let's see how happy these countries are when China controls every facet of their existences.

Times may change but the theme is always the same.. Everyone hates the United States until they need us..

 

[JOHN GRENZ]

Biden tests positive for the Shanghai Shivers today. Remember this?

 

[BSO Dave]

You also have to want to fight.
It is not enough to put our green youth in green clothes.
The training is bleak, too.
For military night marches, if you bring a doctor's certificate, you are driven to the destination.....
You really have no idea what it's like here.

I was being facetious in my remarks about conscription your newest German citizens of middle-eastern decent.. Of course they won't serve or fight. They hate everything about the West except for the naiveté our woke benevolence..

In all seriousness, it's really not a bad idea to offer required military service as a condition of immigration and eventual citizenship. I'd like to see that happen here in the USA.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I appreciate you clarifying your assessment..
Here is mine..
Any country that does not perceive China as an existential threat is likely beholden to them in one way or another. They are likely economic slaves, pawns, or both. In any case, those countries you are referring to who welcome China's challenge of power to the United States are, in my view, enemies or bad actors at the very least. So, I could care less what their opinion of the United States is.

Let's see how happy these countries are when China controls every facet of their existences.

Times may change but the theme is always the same.. Everyone hates the United States until they need us..

For an alternative view:

 

[Ridge Runner]

8 hits with a 9mm. I suppose he kept shooting until the guy was down, which means that the guy was upright until shot 6 or so. Nothing was said about the guy wearing body armor- so I must conclude that most of the hits were superficial until the last few that put him down and killed him. 40 yards or no, seems like a few well aimed shots would have been more effective if less sensational.

This shootist samaritan must have wanted the a$$hole perp to suffer for his previous crimes, because the legal system failed to do it.

 

[BSO Dave]

For an alternative view:

Definitively an interesting assessment, and I truly hope that much of what he predicts comes to pass.. However, he predicates much of his assessment on a systemic collapse of a Chinese economy that may not happen for many years. He also predicates a huge portion of the US's resurgence on energy independence which has been all but eliminated since January 20th, 2020... We are going in the wrong direction..

My concerns with China are the tangible threats occurring today which include rampant theft of intellectual property, currency manipulation, and having way too much control of the global supply chain of goods just to mane a few... I fear we don't have the time to wait China out and too much irrevocable damage can be done in the meantime.

 

[Ray B]

Any time an officer fires his/her weapon (other than training) he/she is immediately placed on administrative leave and a review of the shooting is conducted. the officer is asked to recall the sight picture for every round fired, what was between the gun and the target and what was behind the target. If the sight picture did not have a part of the body of the target that would lead to incapacitation, or worse, was not on the target, or even worse, involved an innocent that happened to be behind the target, why was the trigger pressed? Given the circumstances of the shooting, the outcome that the bad shooter died and that there was no collateral damage or injuries it ends well- but God help us from the ambulance chasers that would have come out of the woodwork had it ended with some bystander being hit by a ricochet fragment.

 

[John Wasmuth]

Any time an officer fires his/her weapon (other than training) he/she is immediately placed on administrative leave and a review of the shooting is conducted. the officer is asked to recall the sight picture for every round fired, what was between the gun and the target and what was behind the target. If the sight picture did not have a part of the body of the target that would lead to incapacitation, or worse, was not on the target, or even worse, involved an innocent that happened to be behind the target, why was the trigger pressed? Given the circumstances of the shooting, the outcome that the bad shooter died and that there was no collateral damage or injuries it ends well- but God help us from the ambulance chasers that would have come out of the woodwork had it ended with some bystander being hit by a ricochet fragment.

Any time an officer fires his/her weapon (other than training) he/she is immediately placed on administrative leave and a review of the shooting is conducted. the officer is asked to recall the sight picture for every round fired, what was between the gun and the target and what was behind the target. If the sight picture did not have a part of the body of the target that would lead to incapacitation, or worse, was not on the target, or even worse, involved an innocent that happened to be behind the target, why was the trigger pressed? Given the circumstances of the shooting, the outcome that the bad shooter died and that there was no collateral damage or injuries it ends well- but God help us from the ambulance chasers that would have come out of the woodwork had it ended with some bystander being hit by a ricochet fragment.

Geez dude yer a piece of work. The guy did what I’m sure is a great job and here you are busting his chops over some total bull narrative you made up. Sorry but you haven’t got a clue.