Politics

[WAB]

Separation of church and state is a grossly misunderstood concept. Our founding fathers were in a war with a government that used the Anglican Church to advance its agenda. The church acted as an extension of the government and had since its founding by Henry VIII. This is what they were guarding against.

The concept was never intended to keep Christian values and beliefs out of government. Simply look at the founding documents, or try to explain our money or the inscriptions on so many buildings in the capital. Do not fall victim to revisionist history!

 

[ActionBob]

And the usual inane arguments come out of the bag. Those were things done 100s of years ago. I'm glad you didn't bring up the crusades as that would have shown a serious lack of historical knowledge. We admonish the Muslim countries for living in an archaic mindset. Something they refuse to change. Christianity / the West has been through the reformation, the enlightenment... they refuse to do so...using centuries old examples is disingenuous at best.

I think that bringing up the Crusades and even the Inquisition actually makes your point that the Christian/Western World has changed/become enlightened.

 

[Doubleplay]

No, using centuries old examples are not disingenuous at best. They are facts and history repeats itself.
Religion in any form is the reason of biggest human tragedies throughout the history including wars and atrocities.
That's why our founding fathers tried to separate Church and State,
As far as Congress goes they are not true representative of the general public.
Nearly nine-in-ten members of Congress identify as Christian (88%), compared with two-thirds of the general public (65%).
Religion has no place in Government.

 

[Nyati]

What did the church do during the middle ages? Burned people at the stack. Spain in the name of Christianity murders millions of people in the western hemisphere. Actually St. Peter had a disagreement with Paul over converting any gentiles to Christianity. I bet it is in recent times that the Jewish faith started accepting converts. I'll admit that the Muslims extremists are murdering people. They are a perfect example of why there should be separation of church and state. But when you get all these religious extremists controlling the armies of the world they feel their messiah will come and save them it can become a self fulfilling prophecy as they will all welcome the final battle.

I agree that chuch and state should be separated, personally I don´t belong to any church, although my moral principles are christian.

Now, when you state that Spain murdered millions of people, that is a pretty strong statement, would you care to elaborate ?

When, where, how many ?

 

[Zambezi]

No, using centuries old examples are not disingenuous at best. They are facts and history repeats itself.
Religion in any form is the reason of biggest human tragedies throughout the history including wars and atrocities.
That's why our founding fathers tried to separate Church and State,
As far as Congress goes they are not true representative of the general public.
Nearly nine-in-ten members of Congress identify as Christian (88%), compared with two-thirds of the general public (65%).
Religion has no place in Government.

Have a nice day

 

[WAB]

No, using centuries old examples are not disingenuous at best. They are facts and history repeats itself.
Religion in any form is the reason of biggest human tragedies throughout the history including wars and atrocities.
That's why our founding fathers tried to separate Church and State,
As far as Congress goes they are not true representative of the general public.
Nearly nine-in-ten members of Congress identify as Christian (88%), compared with two-thirds of the general public (65%).
Religion has no place in Government.

You do not understand the intent of the founding fathers as regards separation of church and state.

 

[mdwest]

I agree that chuch and state should be separated, personally I don´t belong to any church, although my moral principles are christian.

Now, when you state that Spain murdered millions of people, that is a pretty strong statement, would you care to elaborate ?

When, where, how many ?

He's speaking to the Spanish Inquisition I believe.. and grossly overstates the facts... while there were certainly atrocities.. it never reached millions.. according to most studies it didnt reach 200,000 prosecutions (and not all people prosecuted were found guilty, or put to death for their "crimes")...

Spanish Inquisition - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[mdwest]

No, using centuries old examples are not disingenuous at best. They are facts and history repeats itself.
Religion in any form is the reason of biggest human tragedies throughout the history including wars and atrocities.
That's why our founding fathers tried to separate Church and State,
As far as Congress goes they are not true representative of the general public.
Nearly nine-in-ten members of Congress identify as Christian (88%), compared with two-thirds of the general public (65%).
Religion has no place in Government.

Not all history repeats itself.. the quote is actually “Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.” George Santayana

when history is learned from.. it does not repeat..

While religion has been a reason for SOME of the larger human tragedies.. it is hardly the sole reason, much less the reason for the largest.. this would especially be true in modern history.. Pol Pot's genocide (+/- 3M people) was driven by a desire to have all foreign influences removed from his country.. Stalins genocide (+/- 6M people) had nothing to do with his religious beliefs (he believed in no religion other than communism and power).. Chairman Mao murdered an estimated 45M people.. he simply thought herding rural villagers into giant "peoples communities" would propel China past competitors and accelerate their arrival at a utopian society.. The geocide in Rwanda had exactly zero to do with religious beliefs (800K-1M estimated killed)..

And lets not kid ourselves with those congress stats.. much like much of the general public (65%) claim to identify as a Christian, but many are not practicing in any way, dont go to church, dont let the church influence their behaviors, etc... Its no secret that claiming a religious belief garners votes... it would be naïve to believe that even half of the congress critters are ACTUALLY driven by their faith in making decisions (whether that faith is Christian, Judaism, Muslim, or Hari Krishna..)... no different than most everything else they say and do.. claiming Christian faith is about obtaining votes and power..

 

[Nyati]

He's speaking to the Spanish Inquisition I believe.. and grossly overstates the facts... while there were certainly atrocities.. it never reached millions.. according to most studies it didnt reach 200,000 prosecutions (and not all people prosecuted were found guilty, or put to death for their "crimes")...

Spanish Inquisition - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Of course, the famous Spanish Inquisition, which should be rigthfully called the French Inquisition, as it started in France 1184, by the Dominican monks, against the Albigeois heretics.

Then they moved to Spain, where there were many prosecutions, but only around 2.000 people were put to death, yes the figure is right, these ecclesiastical courts were very careful with their records, and they still exist.

By the way, at that time, across Europe, thousands of people were burned at the stake for witchcraft.

 

[Red Leg]

One can hope this is accurate. With greater responsibility comes the requirement to behave responsibly. Political sloganeering, or perhaps pandering to an uninformed base, is easy when there are no consequences.

U.S. won't allow Russia to win, it could push China to war with Taiwan - House Speaker

Read more

newsukraine.rbc.ua

 

[WAB]

One can hope this is accurate. With greater responsibility comes the requirement to behave responsibly. Political sloganeering, or perhaps pandering to an uninformed base, is easy when there are no consequences.

U.S. won't allow Russia to win, it could push China to war with Taiwan - House Speaker

Read more

newsukraine.rbc.ua

I hope that he is good to his word. It seems to put him totally at odds with Trump.

 

[Doubleplay]

Not all history repeats itself.. the quote is actually “Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.” George Santayana

when history is learned from.. it does not repeat..

While religion has been a reason for SOME of the larger human tragedies.. it is hardly the sole reason, much less the reason for the largest.. this would especially be true in modern history.. Pol Pot's genocide (+/- 3M people) was driven by a desire to have all foreign influences removed from his country.. Stalins genocide (+/- 6M people) had nothing to do with his religious beliefs (he believed in no religion other than communism and power).. Chairman Mao murdered an estimated 45M people.. he simply thought herding rural villagers into giant "peoples communities" would propel China past competitors and accelerate their arrival at a utopian society.. The geocide in Rwanda had exactly zero to do with religious beliefs (800K-1M estimated killed)..

And lets not kid ourselves with those congress stats.. much like much of the general public (65%) claim to identify as a Christian, but many are not practicing in any way, dont go to church, dont let the church influence their behaviors, etc... Its no secret that claiming a religious belief garners votes... it would be naïve to believe that even half of the congress critters are ACTUALLY driven by their faith in making decisions (whether that faith is Christian, Judaism, Muslim, or Hari Krishna..)... no different than most everything else they say and do.. claiming Christian faith is about obtaining votes and power..

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” – George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905.
This is the actual quote by Santayana and for some reason humans have a very short memory and thus history repeats itself over and over.
I agree with you about the way we should look at religion in the Congress.
Religion has been used to deceive people throughout history either to gain influence or get wealthy and it's still being used today by politicians and others.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

"Discussions are underway in the Senate regarding support for President Joe Biden's request to Congress to allocate $106 billion in aid to Israel and Ukraine. Of this amount, $61.3 billion is proposed for Ukraine and $14.3 billion for Israel."

I'm no math genius, but 61.3 + 14.3 = 75.6, not 106. Soooo, where's the roughly other 30 billion going? Some sort of administrative fees?

 

[mdwest]

10% for the big guy!

 

[Brent in Az]

Audit the Fed

 

[Doubleplay]

You do not understand the intent of the founding fathers as regards separation of church and state.

It's my interpretation.
I'll live it to the scholars to argue the intent.
Even the supreme court interpreted it differently at different times throughout our history.

 

[fourfive8]

That fuzzy Obama/Biden math discrepancy of aid to Ukraine and Israel is what Mike Johnson says he will try to untangle, where each is separate and argued separately. That is one thing the big gov Dems, Closet Dems and RINOS have their panties in a knot about. I’m cautiously optimistic about Johnson. The pressure from the military-industrial complex, green syndicates and all manner of special interest swamp/deep state lobbies and professional bureaucrats will come to bear on him in the next few weeks. I sincerely hope he has the strength and support to stay the course.

 

[David AK 53]

"Discussions are underway in the Senate regarding support for President Joe Biden's request to Congress to allocate $106 billion in aid to Israel and Ukraine. Of this amount, $61.3 billion is proposed for Ukraine and $14.3 billion for Israel."

I'm no math genius, but 61.3 + 14.3 = 75.6, not 106. Soooo, where's the roughly other 30 billion going? Some sort of administrative fees?

I believe there was some funding for boarder security. I don’t know if that makes up the difference.

 

[Hunt anything]

I believe there was some funding for boarder security. I don’t know if that makes up the difference.

I think it was for the border but not security, I think it was more along the lines of humanitarian stuff, baby formula food stuffs not for enforcement. Many a little thrown in for Taiwan as well.

 

[Ray B]

The REASON people kill each other whether individually, as a group or a country will be one or more of these: FEAR, IGNORANCE, or GREED.

Religion has little direct relation.