Politics

[jpr9954]

I actually agree with you on all three of these things...

His leadership qualities certainly leave much to be desired.. where he has gotten ahead is through grit, determination, and being a strong negotiator.. he is more Atilla the Hun than Ronald Reagan for sure..

I also agree in todays military he'd be relieved of command and forced out.. 50 years ago he probably would have been allowed to stay in, but like Patton, would have never seen a 4th star.. Im not certain about a publicly traded company.. It really depends on the companys culture and the performance of its portfolio.. there are a LOT of outright assholes that run the fortune 50... as long as their stock keeps performing, their boards dont seem to care that the CEO is a hated tyrant and that corporate turnover exceeds the national average by 25%.. But.. I agree that in many of the fortune 500 companies he wouldnt last long due to his behavior...

Regarding campaign promises.. thats really the crux of my position... DC insider or not.. like pretty much every other prior POTUS, lots of promised made.. and only a few delivered on... whether thats willful and intentional, or simple ignorance (not understanding or knowing what is being promised is not possible to deliver).. you really cant commit to "draining the swamp" and then blame the swamp for your demise.. when you hired "the swamp" to work for you... you made a decision.. and the decision did you harm... thats YOUR fault.. not anyone elses..

I voted for Trump the first time because a) I hated Hillary and b) the Supreme Court. Of all the things Trump did or didn't do, he did come through with some excellent picks at all levels of the Federal judiciary.

The second time I voted for Trump because Biden. What more needs to be said about that.

Even though I am officially a "senior citizen", I strongly feel that the job of President should be held by someone younger than age 77 or 80. We are not Red China or the old Soviet Union. A person that age usually doesn't have the stamina or mental acuity to effectively do the job. We are seeing that now with Biden where I feel the Administration is in essence being run by a group of Obama-loyalists who are making all the real decision and having Joe rubber stamp them.

I look at the majority of candidates pushed by Trump in 2022 and with few exceptions they didn't have what it takes. I will make an exception for Ted Budd of NC who had been a Congressman before running for the Senate (BTW he is a gun guy who owns a shooting range). You look at Dr. Oz (carpetbagger), Kari Lake (TV reporter, pretty but...), and Herschel Walker (ton of his own baggage) and say what the hell! So we are stuck with Fetterman, Mr. Gabby Giffords, and the Socialist Rev. I foresee the same happening in 2024 if Trump is the nominee. He *might* win but the rest of the ticket will falter. The issue here with Trump is that he is still fighting his loss in 2020 and looking backwards when he should be looking forward.

Mark is right that many CEOs are SOBs. I worked for a division of AIG for most of 25 years. When they bought us Hank Greenberg was Chairman and CEO. He was only the second CEO of AIG and had served in the position for 37 years when forced out that then-NY AG Eliot Spitzer. He was so demanding of his subordinates that many would puke in the restroom before giving their reports. That said, he knew the business inside and out. He had a good nose for risk which is essential in an insurance company. I still contend that the implosion of AIG in 2008 during the financial crisis was because Greenberg had been forced out. His successor tried to make some quick bucks and did until he didn't. 93 out of 95 divisions were profitable in 2008. The remaining two are what caused the Fed Reserve to step in. Greenberg, btw, landed with a Signal Company attached to the Rangers on Omaha Beach on D-Day.

 

[shootist~]

IMO, LBJ's Great Society is the primary cause for the welfare mess of today.
I was too young to vote at the time, but the predictions of my dad (very blue collar working class) and my (college educated white collar) older brother have all come to pass.

 

[Brent in Az]

Thats where we absolutely disagree..

I happen to be a CEO and was hired to run a fairly good sized corporation about 6 years ago..

I inherited a leadership team.. many of whom I didnt know, didnt trust, and frankly a few I didnt like..

I spent about 90 days evaluating each persons performance, each persons capability, and each persons willingness to operate within the scope and terms laid out by the new boss (me) coming in... and then I began to reset the senior leadership team and bring in people that I absolutely knew could do the job I needed them to do.. because I had spent the time and energy to have every single person I brought in completely vetted and/or I knew them personally, had prior experience working with them personally, etc.. Thats what good CEOs do...

Trump has been a CEO of a large corporation most of his adult life.. he has bought countless firms, gotten rid of leadership, brought in new talent, brought in experienced and vetted talent, etc for the better part of the last 50 years of his life.. He knows the process..

He has also run in the highest level of political circles for most of his adult life.. He has had relationships with multiple past POTUS.. he has had relationships with numerous senators, numerous congressmen, numerous federal judges, etc.. while he might not have lived and worked in DC prior to becoming POTUS.. neither have the majority of past presidents (Governors like Clinton, Bush, Reagan, etc generally have LESS dealings with senior members of the federal government than the CEO of a multi-billion dollar global corporation HQ'd inside the US)..

Not only would he know how to hire, fire, etc senior leadership in ANY organization.. and would have had decades long prior relationships with numerous political officials in DC.. he also had a team whose responsibility is to source the right people for the right jobs in his cabinet.. if/when done correctly.. this is an exhaustive process.. every rock is turned over and examined related to every single person in consideration for a cabinet position..

So... either Trump selected the wrong team to do the vetting for him... Or.. he ignored the recommendations of the team doing the vetting for him... but either way.. he absolutely had the ability to call the final shot... he has the experience to know what needs to be done and how to do it when it comes to making hiring decisions for senior leadership positions.. and he had the resources to get it done right..

Trump is a lot of things.. but one of them is not stupid.. nor is he an inexperienced senior leader..

He simply did a horrible job when making those decisions..

The question goes back to.. the promise was to drain the swamp.. youre stating Barr, Sessions, and Pence are swamp creatures.. (I'd argue Pence is not.. he is less of a DC insider than Trump.. and certainly wielded far less power and influence in DC while he was VP than he was expected to have.. but thats neither here nor there)... So how does a guy that promises to drain the swamp, that knows how to (and is willing to) hire and fire, that knows how to evaluate leadership and capability, that has an entire team thats sole purpose is the vetting of leadership candidates... end up bringing swamp creatures into his own administration?

Was it willful and intentional? or was it out of ignorance? was he "tricked"? how did it happen?

It certainly shouldnt have.. and there is really no good excuse for it...

Like I said, Trump made some poor choices. Who's fault? Some Trump's, some not.

When you have a swamp rat like Mitch McConnell whispering in your ear .......

"Hire this guy Mr. president"

"Choose this person Mr. President"

"Nominate this Person Mr. President"

What could possibly go wrong when the swamp that you want to drain is trying to persuade you?

I realize everyone wants to bash Trump for everything under the sun, but you can't blame Trump for rookie mistakes after the quagmire he stepped into. A viper's nest of distraction trying to take him down.

Jeff Session's was a huge mistake. The moment Sessions announced his recusal in the Russia investigation hoax would lead me to fire him 2 minutes later. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

 

[Zambezi]

Actually, you can put quite a bit of the blame on them...

Millennials and Gen Z's are voting and their voting record is directly reflective of the entirety of these asinine ideologies that are dictating democratic policy. Aside from their age and voting record, their grossly ignorant and naive ideologies are destroying the culture and the moral fabric that used to unify this country.

I appreciate that a small minority of these kids are still being raised to have morals, values, respect for others, and an understanding of the Constitution, but not nearly enough of them... The vast majority are driving the bus, and they are driving it off a cliff...

Sorry a few days late to the party, been living my life...

Can't agree with you to a large extent. We know we are living in a world where technology, the internet, schooling / universities and liberal ideas pervade every hour of our kids lives. It is imperative that we counter that and instil good morals, values an ability to use critical thinking. If your child grows up an Anitifa libtard a-hole then look in the mirror. (NOT MEANING YOU BSO DAVE)

Nature versus nurture... If the worldly nature is pervasive then your nurture and home tuition better be stronger. Unfortunately the Boomer gen (my parents) allowed the destruction of the good morals and values that existed in the 50's and very early 60's and gave birth to an abundance of liberal assholes in the late 60's and 70's (me and my generation)... those same parents taught their kids (my generation) to be libtards.... so you cant blame those kids (GenX) for being assholes due to the internet etc. And the millennials are a product of GenX.

My kids (born 2002 & 2008) are conservative and critical thinkers because I instilled those vales in them.
If millennials are assholes it's because you/me/us allowed them to be so!

So when you blame the guy's kids next door to you just remember you were there and you didn't kick his ass or educate him. Kids live what they see and are taught. They are assholes because Bob next door made him that way. He was a boomer or GenX.

I know it's awesome to bash the Millennials, I love to do it to!... But their parents are largely to blame.

 

[mdwest]

Like I said, Trump made some poor choices. Who's fault? Some Trump's, some not.

When you have a swamp rat like Mitch McConnell whispering in your ear .......

"Hire this guy Mr. president"

"Choose this person Mr. President"

"Nominate this Person Mr. President"

What could possibly go wrong when the swamp that you want to drain is trying to persuade you?

I realize everyone wants to bash Trump for everything under the sun, but you can't blame Trump for rookie mistakes after the quagmire he stepped into. A viper's nest of distraction trying to take him down.

Jeff Session's was a huge mistake. The moment Sessions announced his recusal in the Russia investigation hoax would lead me to fire him 2 minutes later. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

We're likely in agreement on most of this sort of thing...

His mistake was listening to long residing and well established members of "the swamp".. believing that they actually wanted to drain their home and would assist him in doing that..

If you want to drain the swamp, you dont ask its most revered members to help.. Mitch McConnel is a prime example.. you go get outsiders.. Desantis might have been a good go-to guy for example... a FL governor who spent a short time in DC (5 years) and understands how it all works, but isnt a long time resident, who is also a very well regarded attorney, and you solicit the assistance of those types of guys...

But instead he attempts to befriend and relies heavily on McConnell.. while vilifying and pushing away people like Desantis..


I had high hopes for Sessions.. but it was pretty clear very early on that he was going to be a complete dud in the administration.. I agree he was allowed to stick around for far longer than he should have been..

 

[Zambezi]

It’s very different in the US.

Under our welfare program housing can be provided that includes water and utilities and garbage pick up, etc for 30% of the tenets adjusted gross income…

Mind you that’s 30% of the money that the US government is already giving them under the SSI program.. which is on average $914 per month for the person filing, plus and additional $617 per month per child…

So… for the sake of argument.. a single mom with 2 kids is getting $2148 each month… then gives back $644 for housing, which leaves $1504 in her pocket after her rent, utilities, water, and garbage pick up is paid for…

But… that’s not all… SSI and subsidized housing are just 2 of the 6 welfare programs in the US…

Welfare recipients also get SNAP…a monthly food allowance.. which averages $424 a month in the US right now..

They also get TANF for a period of time.. that’s temporary supplemental assistance to the tune of $418 a month for a parent with 2 children..

And then there is the earned income credit that’s worth about $2411 annually among welfare recipients…

they also receive Medicaid.. a free health insurance package.. that has an annual value of $10,400…

So…for NOT working… they get a place to live with all utilities, water, and garbage services… health care coverage for themselves and all children… and get paid $30,437 annually between all the various programs…

While $30k is far from getting rich in the US…that’s the equivalent of $14.37 an hour in wages…

So.. what’s the incentive for most of these people to change? The average wages for food service is $13.18 in Texas… the average wages for working in retail is $12.44…

Why work? You take a pay cut, you have the additional cost of child care to bear… and now you have to answer to “the man” every day and actually be responsible for your actions…

That’s what many of these young people growing up in our impoverished areas are being taught by both the person raising them and by society at large… that it is far easier to just get on, and stay on, the dole… why bust your ass sweeping the floors at McDonald’s? It doesn’t pay…

Which is why they keep buying into all the living wage bullshit and “free” handouts bullshit…

Mathematically it makes no sense… but no one is talking to them about math or economics..

They’re just being taught that living in the projects is an acceptable way of life.. and how to best game the system so they can take maximum advantage of it…

FWIW these aren’t the musings of some mid 50’s Gen X who THINKS this to be true.. I spent a decade working every day in one of the most impoverished wards of one of the toughest cities in the US… I personally witnessed this… and heard the opinion and the position of the people living in my ward(s) routinely…

They all know they are “poor” (having no clue what real freaking poverty is)… but… are perfectly accepting of it… it’s simply not worth the effort to attempt to be anything else.. not as long as the government keeps providing for them…

Dave, I'm very disappointed in you for providing facts, logic and reasoning on this thread.

 

[Brent in Az]

Another swamp creature I have no respect for is lindsey Graham. He didn't like Trump when his buddy McCain was alive. After McCain died, Graham started acting like Trump was his best bud. Nauseating.

 

[Zambezi]

Someone said a few pages back that DeSantis was a sell out or idiot (paraphrasing here and maybe a gross misinterpretation) because he couldn't beat trump and win the far right so he is aiming for the moderate and swing vote... Now call me a moron but what the actual FFff... Isn't this what every single candidate should be doing??? If you have your core in your pocket then you should be looking to win NEW votes.

I'm sorry but when you castigate a candidate for trying to win over new/moderate voters then you are no longer a party player you are a candidate zealot. Trump is playing to his crowd, he's not trying to increase it. More's the pity.

 

[Zambezi]

1. Republican position - "Never interfere with an enemy when he is in the process of destroying himself". If the House impeaches Biden, then McCarthy and the House feels enough self destruction has been done and they are changing tactics.

1. & 2. Democrats are in a tough position and having a hard time figuring this one out. They know they have very real problems.

3. There is nothing in the Constitution that disqualifies Trump, regardless of what the talking heads say. It doesn't look like any of the indictments will come to trial prior to the election. There are three currently and there will be at least one more, possibly two that seem to be in the works. It is all about:
a. Throwing mud and hoping something sticks.
b. Keeping Trump tied up and busy with things besides campaigning.
c. Spend campaign money on attorney fees instead of the campaign.

It actually doesn't matter if these come to trial pre-election or post-election. The government will grind to a halt for his ENTIRE term as he will be facing impeachment after impeachment. Much like his first term where he had to fight off the wolves and he was largely ineffective.

I wish to heavens above that the frikken Trump brigade would realise that Trump may win but the quagmire that the Dems create around him means that America will suffer!!

Get a "Trump-like person" elected that isn't a PR nightmare and narcissist and get the country on track again

FFS!!! Wake the F up!

Rant over!

 

[BSO Dave]

Can't agree with you to a large extent. We know we are living in a world where technology, the internet, schooling / universities and liberal ideas pervade every hour of our kids lives. It is imperative that we counter that and instil good morals, values an ability to use critical thinking. If your child grows up an Anitifa libtard a-hole then look in the mirror. (NOT MEANING YOU BSO DAVE)

Nature versus nurture... If the worldly nature is pervasive then your nurture and home tuition better be stronger. Unfortunately the Boomer gen (my parents) allowed the destruction of the good morals and values that existed in the 50's and very early 60's and gave birth to an abundance of liberal assholes in the late 60's and 70's (me and my generation)... those same parents taught their kids (my generation) to be libtards.... so you cant blame those kids (GenX) for being assholes due to the internet etc. And the millennials are a product of GenX.

My kids (born 2002 & 2008) are conservative and critical thinkers because I instilled those vales in them.
If millennials are assholes it's because you/me/us allowed them to be so!

So when you blame the guy's kids next door to you just remember you were there and you didn't kick his ass or educate him. Kids live what they see and are taught. They are assholes because Bob next door made him that way. He was a boomer or GenX.

I know it's awesome to bash the Millennials, I love to do it to!... But their parents are largely to blame.

I beleive we agree on the same principles and we are talking past one another... Your reply to me above is more in reference with a later post where I referred to the exacerbation of liberalism due in large part to the tech and digital media we have expereinced in the last 25 or so years. That exacerbation doesn't erase the fundamental blame which I agree is founded in poor parenting spanning multiple generations...

I absolutely agree that by and large parents of the last two generations have raised a bunch of sheltered, weak, selfish turds free of any sense of personal accountability. That's precisiely why I replied to the poster who asserted that these kids aren't responsible for the political or cultural climate we are currently in becasue they haven't had their chance at "drivng the bus" yet. I disagree... Their parents may be responsible for raising them to be libitards, but their actions as voting adults are directly affecting the politics and culture in real time.

Whether the roots of that irresponsibility or these assinine ideologies come from bad parenting, their culture of peers, social media, or a horrid combination of all of the above, they are ultimately the ones causing the damage here and now. At what point are they going to be accountable for their own actions as adults?

 

[Brent in Az]

We're likely in agreement on most of this sort of thing...

His mistake was listening to long residing and well established members of "the swamp".. believing that they actually wanted to drain their home and would assist him in doing that..

If you want to drain the swamp, you dont ask its most revered members to help.. Mitch McConnel is a prime example.. you go get outsiders.. Desantis might have been a good go-to guy for example... a FL governor who spent a short time in DC (5 years) and understands how it all works, but isnt a long time resident, who is also a very well regarded attorney, and you solicit the assistance of those types of guys...

But instead he attempts to befriend and relies heavily on McConnell.. while vilifying and pushing away people like Desantis..


I had high hopes for Sessions.. but it was pretty clear very early on that he was going to be a complete dud in the administration.. I agree he was allowed to stick around for far longer than he should have been..

Trump should have made Desantis an ally, instead Trump felt threatened by Desantis throwing his hat into the electoral ring, and most likely burned that bridge.

Much to the chagrin of the Trump haters, a Trump/Desantis ticket could be a powerful force. Desantis could run for Prez in 2028. Probably won't happen now.

 

[mdwest]

Honestly I think a Trump/Desantis partnering could have won the election... Desantis represents much of what people liked about Trump and probably could have brought many of those that have fled the Trump camp back to consider voting for him.. and to your point, there would have been a very good shot at Destantis taking the reigns in 2028 and then pulling a second term in 2032.. 12 years of right leaning policy on both the domestic and foreign fronts is what the country needs right now if its going to course correct without a ton of pain from where the likes of the left is taking us..

 

[Tanks]

Trump should have made Desantis an ally, instead Trump felt threatened by Desantis throwing his hat into the electoral ring, and most likely burned that bridge.

Much to the chagrin of the Trump haters, a Trump/Desantis ticket could be a powerful force. Desantis could run for Prez in 2028. Probably won't happen now.

Hmmm, no. While Trump demands loyalty he has no qualms throwing everyone around him under the bus. An example is him attacking the Iowa governor for being impartial which is the known position for all Iowa governors to date due to the caucus occurring in that State. DeSantis running for VP would kill all his future political chances as his future would be tainted by Trump.

Not to mention if someone chooses the Constitution instead of him, then that person is labeled disloyal and a traitor. If one is not a "Yes man" then they have no business working for Trump as at some point they will be cast aside.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I beleive we agree on the same principles and we are talking past one another... Your reply to me above is more in reference with a later post where I referred to the exacerbation of liberalism due in large part to the tech and digital media we have expereinced in the last 25 or so years. That exacerbation doesn't erase the fundamental blame which I agree is founded in poor parenting spanning multiple generations...

I absolutely agree that by and large parents of the last two generations have raised a bunch of sheltered, weak, selfish turds free of any sense of personal accountability. That's precisiely why I replied to the poster who asserted that these kids aren't responsible for the political or cultural climate we are currently in becasue they haven't had their chance at "drivng the bus" yet. I disagree... Their parents may be responsible for raising them to be libitards, but their actions as voting adults are directly affecting the politics and culture in real time.

Whether the roots of that irresponsibility or these assinine ideologies come from bad parenting, their culture of peers, social media, or a horrid combination of all of the above, they are ultimately the ones causing the damage here and now. At what point are they going to be accountable for their own actions as adults?

Coincides with the end of the military draft in the US, which ended 50+ years ago in 1973. The military has benefitted from an all volunteer service, but there are a lot of lost civilians that would have greatly benefitted from 4 years of service. Aimless boys turned into more productive men and learning what it means to "serve."

 

[Red Leg]

This guy. Apparently released this today. Whatever one thinks of the validity of the charges against him (pick your venue), this certainly will not be entirely helpful with the courts.

Truth Social

Truth Social is America's "Big Tent" social media platform that encourages an open, free, and honest global conversation without discriminating on the basis of political ideology.

truthsocial.com

 

[Brent in Az]

Hmmm, no. While Trump demands loyalty he has no qualms throwing everyone around him under the bus. An example is him attacking the Iowa governor for being impartial which is the known position for all Iowa governors to date due to the caucus occurring in that State. DeSantis running for VP would kill all his future political chances as his future would be tainted by Trump.

Not to mention if someone chooses the Constitution instead of him, then that person is labeled disloyal and a traitor. If one is not a "Yes man" then they have no business working for Trump as at some point they will be cast aside.

I don't agree with that theory, as your description of Trump pretty much sums up the vast majority of politicians in higher power. "My way, or the highway" has pretty much been around for thousands of years.
The only way the Republicans will have any hope for the future, is to create an unwavering unity within the party. Too many RINO'S for any hope of that.

Based on your logic, Desantis best bet would be to withdraw, and come back in 4 years. Ron will get trounced in the primary. What will that do for his image with the voters going forward, since its all about keeping distance from the rabid orange bad man.?
I like Desantis, and would gladly vote for him. If Trump could put a lid on his man child attitude, and tone things down somewhat, a Trump /Desantis ticket could be great thing. The Trump haters have portrayed Trump as Mussolini reincarnate. To each his own.
You might want to tell Mike Pence that being associated with Trump makes you unelectable........ oh wait!

Democrats win this next election, this country is toast.
Love him , or hate him, Trump is the only one on the list who has any chance in the next election.

Scary, eh?

 

[Josh P]

Coincides with the end of the military draft in the US, which ended 50+ years ago in 1973. The military has benefitted from an all volunteer service, but there are a lot of lost civilians that would have greatly benefitted from 4 years of service. Aimless boys turned into more productive men and learning what it means to "serve."

That's a job primarily for fathers, not a government institution.

 

[jpr9954]

Hmmm, no. While Trump demands loyalty he has no qualms throwing everyone around him under the bus. An example is him attacking the Iowa governor for being impartial which is the known position for all Iowa governors to date due to the caucus occurring in that State. DeSantis running for VP would kill all his future political chances as his future would be tainted by Trump.

Not to mention if someone chooses the Constitution instead of him, then that person is labeled disloyal and a traitor. If one is not a "Yes man" then they have no business working for Trump as at some point they will be cast aside.

There is another issue here. That is the Electoral College and the 12th Amendment. While the electors vote for the president and VP separately, they cannot vote for two people from their home state. Thus, the Florida electors could vote for Trump but would then be precluded from voting for DeSantis as Veep. So in an extremely close race you could have Trump elected with Kamala as Veep and vice-versa with Joe as President and DeSantis as Veep.

https://www.history.com/news/can-the-president-and-vice-president-be-from-the-same-state

The relevant part of the 12th Amendment:

The Electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President,

I cannot see Trump returning to NY to become a resident of that state again.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

That's a job primarily for fathers, not a government institution.

Totally agree. The problem is the high percentage of fatherless homes or absentee fathers that aren’t playing a meaningful role in raising their kids.

 

[sestoppelman]

””In their heydays, I'm sure the Lost Generation and Greatest Generation thought Boomers were entitled sh*t-heads and good-for-nothing hippies who would send the country to hell in a handbasket.””

Turns out they were right.

It seems the little “Hard times make hard men” ditty is pretty much spot on.

Overly broad dont you think? Dont paint us all with one brush.