Politics

[Dragan N.]

@Louis Toadvine makes valid points..

I still remember sitting in a sociology 101 class as a sophomore.. where one of the very few points a professor has ever made that I found lifelong value in was made..

He was discussing the US welfare system (as it existed in 1988).. and asked the class about how they felt when they saw 18 year old, able bodied men sitting on the porch in the projects drinking a 40 oz at noon, drawing welfare checks to live on rather than pursuing work (that they were clearly capable of doing)..

The class was more than a little vocal about how it pissed them off.. (Im sure the class would respond very differently today when filled with Gen Z'ers as opposed to all the Gen X'ers that were in the class with me at that time)..

He then went on to explain that the welfare system was created in 1935.. and that at the time of his lecture we were at the onset of the 4th generation of families in this country that had never worked.. that while it doesnt apply in ALL situations... it was far more common than any of us understood... that the 18 year old kid was the product of the parenting and of the system he was raised in.. and that his 36 year old daddy had essentially trained him to be who and what he is... and that oh, by the way.. the 36 year old daddy was trained by society and by his 54 year old parents (the grand parents).. and oh, by the way.. those grandparents were trained and raised by their 72 year old parents (the great grand parents).. and that society had been telling 4 generations that it was perfectly ok not to work even when able to do so... you'll be taken care of...

Its easy to get pissed off at the 18 year old sitting on the porch drinking the 40 at noon, collecting a check, refusing to work...

but who we should all be getting pissed at is the 72 year olds that were absolutely capable of working, but instead gamed the system, trained others to game the system, and all of society that sat around in 1935 and thought "this is all going to work itself out at some point".. and for decades did nothing to correct the system or society itself..

Its easy to get pissed at millennials.. they give a lot of reasons for older generations to be pissed at them..

but we shouldnt forget.. millennials didnt create helicopter parenting.. Gen X did.. millennials are simply the product of it... millennials didnt create the concept of participation trophies.. Gen X did... millennials are simply the product of it.. etc..etc..

And guess who created the Gen X'ers... that was the boomers...

so.. hate the guys that decided helicopter parenting and participation trophies were going to be the solution for setting society straight? well.. ownership of that probably falls upon the generation that created them (the boomers)..

and it goes on, and on, and on..

We can all claim "well... Im not like that!"... (I am not like many in my generation (Gen X)).... so what?.... the truth is most of the boomer generation is a particular way.. as most of Gen X is a particular way.. as most of Gen Y / millennials are a particular way, etc.. and if youre not part of the solution, you are indeed part of the problem...

I don't know what welfare in the US is like, but in Ontario you recieve $700 and something dollars a month from welfare. That money is split into housing (which is $370 or so a month) and utilities/groceries which is something like $350 per month. I don't know if these numbers are 100% accurate but it is in that ballpark. In Toronto renting a 6'x9' room in someone's basement, where you share a kitchen and bathroom with 1 or 2 other people, is about $1000-1200 per month.

In Toronto you cannot even rent a condemned shack for $400 per month. So if a person is actually unable to work due to mental or physical issues, their lives would genuinely be miserable trying to survive off welfare. These are people who are actually unable to work and generate additional income. I feel horrible for these people.

However when it comes to most able bodied people who are on welfare, I would wager that very few of them are only living off the money they get from the government. Most of them have alternative sources of income to go along with the social assistance they receive. These sources of income are:

1) Doing legal jobs such as being a general labourer and getting paid under the table in cash.

2)Doing illegal things to generate additional income- such as dealing drugs, shoplifting, break and enters, car theft etc... The people who do this are mostly drug addicts and/or drug dealers.

Or a combination of the 2.

If you even mention that this category of able bodied people who game the welfare system exist you would probably get labelled as a bigot, especially if you said this in a sociology class at a Toronto area university.

 

[Louis Toadvine]

I think you seriously misinterpreted my original post with a tangent that's gone way into left field.

It's hard to take someone seriously, who's screen name is based on a violent fictional outlaw killer from Blood Meridian.

Yes, you're totally right about that. I forgot. One's name or choice of online handle delegitimizes their actual words. I believe that's the first rule of discourse.

You win this one!

 

[Hunter4752001]

Can anyone help clarify US law re Power of Attorney. I read this morning that Senator Feinstein's daughter held a power of attorney to manage her affairs. This has come into the news because the daughter is taking various entities to court on behalf of her mother.

In my country I always thought that a legal power of attorney could only be acted on when the subject was shown to be unable to manage their own affairs. Is this the case in the US, and if so how does the Senator remain in office? Does such a Power of Attorney also extend to exercising the mother's senate vote?

 

[shootist~]

US senators have to vote in person on the senate floor. Not there, no vote.
The house has different rules.

I'm not a lawyer, but there are all sorts of powers of attorney. A medical POA ( based on my wife's and mine) is worded so someone can decide on your medical care if you are incapacitated and unable to do so yourself.

I suppose a financial POA could be worded any way you want.

A US Import Agent gets a limited POA from the hunter so they can handle the customs paperwork on one's behalf.

 

[SaintPanzer]

re: Power of Attorney, I can't answer your Senate vote question, but I can tell you that "unable to manage their own affairs" is not exactly it. That is to say "unable to manage" can be for any reason. For example, my wife has a PoA for my car. If I'm deployed, I cannot be there to register/sell/transfer, etc., so she has the ability to do that for me. So it wouldn't be unreasonable for someone who works in DC, but resides in CA to appoint someone to manage things while she is away. The presence of the PoA, by itself is not significant. How it's being used now, however, could be.

There are also differences between a "Limited PoA" and a complete PoA. The example I showed above is a limited one, it speaks specifically to matters relating to my car.

In the above case, it would matter greatly if the PoA was originally given by the mother, or if it was directed by the state due to non copos mentos issues: i.e. the state determined others had to manage affairs. So more information is needed.

 

[Tanks]

So what's the point of all that babble?

...
White Liberals, minorities,and generation pansy, is what has caused the current state of affairs in this country by voting foolishly. ...

Unfortunately, both sides are more concerned with divisive social issues than actual issues that matter.

It seems like both sides are trying to outdo each other to the extreme opposite view on the social issues.

Not to mention people plainly lying about stuff. An example is the recent laws that got passed in IL that would allow legal immigrants that can qualify to possess a firearm to become police officers. Instead of pointing out that they'd be giving foreign citizens power to arrest US citizens (and residents) the usual suspects on the GOP side (including Desantis) immediately started crying about illegal aliens becoming police officers. It was a false statement, but more sensational and a lot of people do not do the research and read the law before becoming irritated.

I think there are voters on both sides who just listen to their chosen candidate and ignore any facts.

 

[mdwest]

I think there are voters on both sides who just listen to their chosen candidate and ignore any facts.

Absolutely true.

I’d say it goes even further…

You’ve got a huge number of American voters that listen to their media outlet of choice and ignore any facts…

Additionally… they lack any desire to critically think for themselves… they’d much prefer to let AOC, Trump, Biden, Desantis, CNN, Fox, or whoever tell them not only how they feel about a given subject, but also dictate all they care to know about it..

Even when given facts, they don’t care to consider them in context or from multiple vantage points to draw a conclusion… it’s much easier to let Tucker or even freaking Kim Kardashian tell them what it all means and what to do about it..

 

[Red Leg]

You’ve got a huge number of American voters that listen to their media outlet of choice and ignore any facts…

Exactly. Regrettably, politics, both sides, have become a belief system. Belief systems are generally immune to facts. Followers look for the comfort of reinforcement and a congregation of fellow believers. To stretch the analogy a little farther, it turns some politicians into prophets who lead followers rather than represent a particular political, philosophical, or fiscal movement. And of course true believers are absolved of any responsibility to independently and factually understand anything. Any opinion contrary to the approved doctrine is met with anger and rejection, not debate.

 

[mdwest]

I don't know what welfare in the US is like, but in Ontario you recieve $700 and something dollars a month from welfare. That money is split into housing (which is $370 or so a month) and utilities/groceries which is something like $350 per month. I don't know if these numbers are 100% accurate but it is in that ballpark. In Toronto renting a 6'x9' room in someone's basement, where you share a kitchen and bathroom with 1 or 2 other people, is about $1000-1200 per month.

In Toronto you cannot even rent a condemned shack for $400 per month. So if a person is actually unable to work due to mental or physical issues, their lives would genuinely be miserable trying to survive off welfare. These are people who are actually unable to work and generate additional income. I feel horrible for these people.

However when it comes to most able bodied people who are on welfare, I would wager that very few of them are only living off the money they get from the government. Most of them have alternative sources of income to go along with the social assistance they receive. These sources of income are:

1) Doing legal jobs such as being a general labourer and getting paid under the table in cash.

2)Doing illegal things to generate additional income- such as dealing drugs, shoplifting, break and enters, car theft etc... The people who do this are mostly drug addicts and/or drug dealers.

Or a combination of the 2.

If you even mention that this category of able bodied people who game the welfare system exist you would probably get labelled as a bigot, especially if you said this in a sociology class at a Toronto area university.

It’s very different in the US.

Under our welfare program housing can be provided that includes water and utilities and garbage pick up, etc for 30% of the tenets adjusted gross income…

Mind you that’s 30% of the money that the US government is already giving them under the SSI program.. which is on average $914 per month for the person filing, plus and additional $617 per month per child…

So… for the sake of argument.. a single mom with 2 kids is getting $2148 each month… then gives back $644 for housing, which leaves $1504 in her pocket after her rent, utilities, water, and garbage pick up is paid for…

But… that’s not all… SSI and subsidized housing are just 2 of the 6 welfare programs in the US…

Welfare recipients also get SNAP…a monthly food allowance.. which averages $424 a month in the US right now..

They also get TANF for a period of time.. that’s temporary supplemental assistance to the tune of $418 a month for a parent with 2 children..

And then there is the earned income credit that’s worth about $2411 annually among welfare recipients…

they also receive Medicaid.. a free health insurance package.. that has an annual value of $10,400…

So…for NOT working… they get a place to live with all utilities, water, and garbage services… health care coverage for themselves and all children… and get paid $30,437 annually between all the various programs…

While $30k is far from getting rich in the US…that’s the equivalent of $14.37 an hour in wages…

So.. what’s the incentive for most of these people to change? The average wages for food service is $13.18 in Texas… the average wages for working in retail is $12.44…

Why work? You take a pay cut, you have the additional cost of child care to bear… and now you have to answer to “the man” every day and actually be responsible for your actions…

That’s what many of these young people growing up in our impoverished areas are being taught by both the person raising them and by society at large… that it is far easier to just get on, and stay on, the dole… why bust your ass sweeping the floors at McDonald’s? It doesn’t pay…

Which is why they keep buying into all the living wage bullshit and “free” handouts bullshit…

Mathematically it makes no sense… but no one is talking to them about math or economics..

They’re just being taught that living in the projects is an acceptable way of life.. and how to best game the system so they can take maximum advantage of it…

FWIW these aren’t the musings of some mid 50’s Gen X who THINKS this to be true.. I spent a decade working every day in one of the most impoverished wards of one of the toughest cities in the US… I personally witnessed this… and heard the opinion and the position of the people living in my ward(s) routinely…

They all know they are “poor” (having no clue what real freaking poverty is)… but… are perfectly accepting of it… it’s simply not worth the effort to attempt to be anything else.. not as long as the government keeps providing for them…

 

[WAB]

If only we could distribute critical thinking skills to our citizens. There was a time that our universities did this, but those days are gone.

 

[mdwest]

If only we could distribute critical thinking skills to our citizens. There was a time that our universities did this, but those days are gone.

Sad, but true.

I’m in the middle of a doctoral program…

Education, even at this level, is almost completely devoid of a requirement to actually think for yourself…

Listen to the lecture.. regurgitate what you have been told.. don’t deviate from the path established for you… and by God do not challenge your professor in any way…

And oh, by the way… APA7 formatting is far more important than the actual content of your paper or the quality of your research… if you can’t 100% follow the rules related to formatting, we don’t need to bother considering your actual findings…

Drives me insane honestly…

 

[Flipper Dude]

””In their heydays, I'm sure the Lost Generation and Greatest Generation thought Boomers were entitled sh*t-heads and good-for-nothing hippies who would send the country to hell in a handbasket.””

Turns out they were right.

It seems the little “Hard times make hard men” ditty is pretty much spot on.

 

[WAB]

Sad, but true.

I’m in the middle of a doctoral program…

Education, even at this level, is almost completely devoid of a requirement to actually think for yourself…

Listen to the lecture.. regurgitate what you have been told.. don’t deviate from the path established for you… and by God do not challenge your professor in any way…

And oh, by the way… APA7 formatting is far more important than the actual content of your paper or the quality of your research… if you can’t 100% follow the rules related to formatting, we don’t need to bother considering your actual findings…

Drives me insane honestly…

My education is in engineering, chemical to be precise. I have often said that the greatest benefits my education provided me were problem solving and critical thinking skills. There was no hand holding in that program. We started with 120 freshmen and graduated 22. I vividly remember my thesis defense (defining the sorbtion isotherms of benzene on Davison x & y zeolites). One of the profs examining me was a Nobel laureate, back when you actually had to do something to get a Nobel prize. To say it was intense was an understatement. After graduating, I remember thinking how easy work was as compared to school. I don’t think that is the case these days.

 

[MD Driver]

Yes it seems in Europe there system for training skilled tradespeople is a bit more straightforward and structured than it is here. In Ontario skilled trades suffer from the following 2 problems:

1) Trades have a somewhat "bad rep" in high school. Teachers and guidance counselors typically encourage the students who are flunking school to go into trades. If a student has decent grades they encourage them to go and get a university degree. Even if is a nonsensical degree like gender and sexuality studies.

2) Getting into the trades is a bit convoluted. It can be a bit tricky to get an apprenticeship, as you have to find someone or a company that is willing to train and pay/hire you. One problem I have noticed is that some people use their apprentices for manual/menial labor and they don't really teach them all that much. Obviously the reverse holds true as well- there are journeymen who go above and beyond when it comes to training their apprentices. In Europe it seems this process is a bit more streamlined and structured. It is a mixture of dedicated in-classroom training time and practical experience...

Here in Indy, the local trade unions will train kids for free and guarantee them jobs once finished. They can’t get people, it’s just nuts. Shootings and murders every night instead.

Our son was in his high school marching band, and we traveled quite a bit as parent volunteers. Some seniors were destined to go on and study under “professor Smith at this/that expensive conservatory in an upstate New England location.” Probably $70K per year to play the flute like no one’s business. One of the fellow parents owned an electrical contractor company and lived larger than everyone. They scoffed at the idiocy of the plans of some of these other kids. Still, some of those parents just had to believe. Now, their flute players are barely making it.

Once at Purdue, my engineering major son joined the marching band there. At freshman orientation, the upperclassman cycled through… “hi, I’m Suzie Q from Peoria, and I’m an aerospace engineering major, and I play the flute.” On and on it went… biomedical engineering, mechanical engineering, biochemistry,…. Finally, the band director introduced himself, and said “notice there are no music majors? That’s because we don’t have any here. Parents, you raised your kids well.” And the funny part was they had a heck of a Big 10 marching band at Purdue.

My UPS delivery driver has a degree from Butler University. He never stopped driving after he graduated 35 years ago, and is getting ready to retire and live very well.

Point of these anecdotes is…. life will generally reward you based on your productivity, not how esoteric you are. The trades (original point) are a fabulous way to lift up so many people, but the paradigms of American life today undervalue those lines of work. It’s nuts and so sad.

 

[Red Leg]

Another of these interesting videos that likely offers insight far beyond the battlefield into the Russian culture and the Russian way of war in contrast to the West. Additionally, because no one does anything in the Russian army without orders, burning these bodies would be a command directed activity. It further allows the MOD to list the serviceman as MIA rather than KIA which obviates the need to offer any compensation to the family.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/15hyy8u

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Another of these interesting videos that likely offers insight far beyond the battlefield into the Russian culture and the Russian way of war in contrast to the West. Additionally, because no one does anything in the Russian army without orders, burning these bodies would be a command directed activity. It further allows the MOD to list the serviceman as MIA rather than KIA which obviates the need to offer any compensation to the family.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/15hyy8u

Enemy or not, that made me sick. BaXtards!

 

[Red Leg]

Last night, the Ukrainians carried out a naval drone attack against a Russian naval vessel. This morning Russia, naturally announced to the world that there was nothing to see. that the drones had been destroyed and no damage was caused to any naval asset.

First below is Ukrainian release of the video of the attack.

Regrettably for the Russian narrative, the Gornyk was in sinking condition it had dragged into port in broad daylight in front of Russian tourists with cell phones.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/15hsv6f

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/15htj4s

 

[dobber]

but in Ontario you recieve $700 and something dollars a month from welfare.

add one child you now get about $1200 from welfare
Add the $660 baby bonus you are at almost $1900 a month and think the baby bonus just went up a little
Throw in another kid or two and that's more $$

Nothing there makes a person want to work when they can drop another kid

 

[Brent in Az]

Another establishment swamp turd that continues to float around in the political punch bowl.

 

[dobber]

I forgot about low income housing, which again is good for those in need, but .........
Hired a guy to do some light supervision, hourly wage, OT after 44hrs and flexible schedule. Want to work 7 days a week? great, only 5? sure
He did a decent enough job for us, but quit. The reason he quit was due to him being in low income housing and he was earning too much money and may get bumped out of that program.
His wife worked somewhere, was going to earn $80k with us and just couldn't break the mindset of the government handout vs earning it yourself