Politics

[Brent in Az]

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Interesting news report on the political division within Oregon, which is sort of a microcosm of the entire US.

 

[HuntingGold]

The riff here is deep.
Marijuana farms everywhere in SW Oregon. The stench in the fall is unbelievable. Legalized "personal amounts" of hard drugs have had predictably bad results. The homeless issue is like a cancer that has spread to places previously unheard of.
Recent ballot driven gun legislation is tied up in courts but that didn't stop the legislature to pick up the baton and write legislative work-arounds.
Generally speaking the Cascades is the ideological dividing line.
This report filed from my pickup truck on a ridge in the Cascades.

 

[Woodcarver]

Interesting news report on the political division within Oregon, which is sort of a microcosm of the entire US.

Very similar to what we have going on here in Colorado, with Metro Denver pretty much dictating to the state.
Washington suffers the same way as Oregon. If they drew a line from the Canadian border to the south border of Oregon, following the Cascade divide, those on the east side in OR and WA would get along well. Let the hyper left in Seattle to Portland suffer their own foolishness.

 

[fourfive8]

@C.W. Richter

Each to their own, and my path doesn't have to be anyone else's. I have never felt drawn to alcohol. I can have an addictive attitude with other things in life, so that was always kind of in the back of my mind. I have never felt like I need something to help me relax, and I really like remembering when I do stuff. And as an elementary teacher, it was important for me - when I first came to Alaska and was teaching and coaching in small rural villages - for the kids to see you could have fun in life without alcohol. Alcohol is a powerfully destructive force across so much of rural AK. Again, my opinion and the path I chose; I have never, ever regretted it. YMMV

And good on your son. I hope he is loving it up here; there is a lot to love, IMHO.

Staying 100% away from that or any "recreational" drug of any kind will never get an argument from me! Setting a strong example for younger people is always a good plan. I am so lucky and grateful for not having a genetic propensity for alcoholism. Some people do, especially within the entire Native American community- it is a physiological fact.

 

[C.W. Richter]

I don't think she can "star" in enough porn flicks to raise that amount of money.

Not at this advanced stage. Long in the tooth should be culled out on the Savannah. If only the initial payment was more than 130k.

 

[Dirtdart]

No one can say but the governor himself. However it’s curious the amount of time he is spending in places like New York. Being quoted constantly in the national press. Maybe it’s just us putting our hopes on him, but I think he’s an active participant.

In most cases I would say it is a safe bet to take anything a politician says and figure the opposite is true.
There is plenty of evidence to suggest that Ron DeSantis will run for POTUS in 2024 but I have only heard him say the opposite and can't find anyone else that has heard him say he was running.
Hope is not much of a strategy.

The Republicans have never in my lifetime nominated anyone that was near as detrimental to this country as what we currently have.

The comrades in the donkey party are going to remove Trump from the equation one way or another so no need to worry about him being in the race.

 

[BSO Dave]

In the case of Trump, it's past one of those lines for me. I know some say the morality aspect shouldn't matter but for some of us it does. I find him to be so repugnant, recalcitrant, and vindictive that I will not vote for him. As I stated earlier I am not convinced that the effective Trump of 2016 is what we would be getting anyway. I want someone who can get things done and do it with a reasonable level of honor, for lack of a better word.

I do understand and actually share your distaste in regard to many of Trump's character flaws and personal demeanor. However, making political decsisons based on these characteristics is emotional and voting out of emotion versus logic and reason is what is supposed to separate us from the asinine ideologies of the left...

For the sake of debate lets assume once again that it came down to the choce between Trump and Biden... By your own standards, you can't be suggesting that Biden is the better choice based solely on morality and character? I find Biden far more morally dispicable just by the mere fact that he has willingly sold out this country to foreign interests for personal gain throughout the course of his entire career. Personally, I find treason for self-interest far more morally reprehensible than banging a porn actress, but that's just me..

Both choices, if indeed they do become our choices, suck monkey balls. I am afraid that either choice, if elected, represents a slippery slope to bad choices becoming the norm.

I disagree... Biden is the train wreck that was anticipated and so much more.. He was incompetent long before his cognative decline which worsens by the day, and those pulling the strings will only become more emboldened with power driving us toward a socialist state with 4 more years of free reign beyond a point of no return.

As much as so many of you all hate to admit it, Trump's positive imact will be swift and immediate based on what he can restore with the power of executive order alone. Energy independence would be restored overnight which would solve the bulk of our self-inflicted ecommic challenges that Biden created on purpose. The markets would explode once again just based on the promise of a business- friendly environment being restored, and the border disaster would be brought back under control to the extent of at least stopping the bleeding.. You can find Trump's personality as offensive as you like, but the immediate positive impacts he would bring making us all more prosperous and secure is absolutely undeniable...

It really is this simple: The celebrity egomaniac that tweets mean things made me richer and safer, and fought to preserve the Consitiution and the rule of law. Biden disregards the Consitution, puts political ememies in jail, and has made me much less safe and much, much poorer.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

@BSO Dave

"However, making political decisions based on these characteristics is emotional"

I disagree. This is not an emotional decision at all. I'm not angry or pissed or any of that, though I probably should be, because he could be doing so much more if he came at it with a different attitude. No, this is taking a lot of time to reflect on how he conducts himself - and yes, it is important to me, and others - and to decide that how he presents himself doesn't represent me. And I will say again: I don't think it's a guarantee we get the same guy from his first term. Combine those two? I need more.

"By your own standards, you can't be suggesting that Biden is the better choice based solely on morality and character?"

Never said that. But the fact is Trump is rapidly approaching the level where I am equally repulsed by both. Hence my statement they both suck monkey balls.

"Trump's positive impact will be swift and immediate based on what he can restore with the power of executive order alone."

Perhaps. I do not share your optimism though that just getting him there will restore things to a happy-happy place.

"The celebrity egomaniac that tweets mean things made me richer and safer, and fought to preserve the Constitution and the rule of law."

I just do not know that I believe he is that guy anymore. I have a hard time considering following someone who sounds so vindictive to so many. He attacks so many people, including other Republicans who have actually supported him. He is, by your own words, an egomaniac, and one with a huge chip on his shoulder who appears to be willing to say or do anything if he feels slighted in the least. That's not a good model for any kind of leader, let alone the leader of the free world. Is Biden better? Hell no.

I would never vote for Biden. At this point Trump's going to have to change or he won't get it either. I still cling to the hope that there is enough time for things to break that another option develops.

 

[spike.t]

U.S. Losing Influence As Saudi Arabia Joins Shanghai Cooperation Organization | OilPrice.com

Saudi Arabia’s intention to join the Shanghai Cooperation Organization as a dialogue member signals that the U.S. is quickly losing influence on the Arabian Peninsula

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[Doug3006]

@BSO Dave

"However, making political decisions based on these characteristics is emotional"

I disagree. This is not an emotional decision at all. I'm not angry or pissed or any of that, though I probably should be, because he could be doing so much more if he came at it with a different attitude. No, this is taking a lot of time to reflect on how he conducts himself - and yes, it is important to me, and others - and to decide that how he presents himself doesn't represent me. And I will say again: I don't think it's a guarantee we get the same guy from his first term. Combine those two? I need more.

"By your own standards, you can't be suggesting that Biden is the better choice based solely on morality and character?"

Never said that. But the fact is Trump is rapidly approaching the level where I am equally repulsed by both. Hence my statement they both suck monkey balls.

"Trump's positive impact will be swift and immediate based on what he can restore with the power of executive order alone."

Perhaps. I do not share your optimism though that just getting him there will restore things to a happy-happy place.

"The celebrity egomaniac that tweets mean things made me richer and safer, and fought to preserve the Constitution and the rule of law."

I just do not know that I believe he is that guy anymore. I have a hard time considering following someone who sounds so vindictive to so many. He attacks so many people, including other Republicans who have actually supported him. He is, by your own words, an egomaniac, and one with a huge chip on his shoulder who appears to be willing to say or do anything if he feels slighted in the least. That's not a good model for any kind of leader, let alone the leader of the free world. Is Biden better? Hell no.

I would never vote for Biden. At this point Trump's going to have to change or he won't get it either. I still cling to the hope that there is enough time for things to break that another option develops.

@tundratiger, you have captured my opinions perfectly! Plus, @BSO Dave, you say that Trump will uphold the Constitution while at the same time, issue more executive orders. That is an oxymoron. I know the other side abuses executive orders too. That doesn’t make it constitutional or proportional or anything other than an abuse of the office. The framers did not anticipate the executive making law all on his lonesome.

I have not been a republican since George Bush Senior fooled me into reading his lips! I am a conservative and I’m looking for someone who believes the same things I do. Trump obviously does not.

 

[BSO Dave]

I just do not know that I believe he is that guy anymore. I have a hard time considering following someone who sounds so vindictive to so many. He attacks so many people, including other Republicans who have actually supported him. He is, by your own words, an egomaniac, and one with a huge chip on his shoulder who appears to be willing to say or do anything if he feels slighted in the least. That's not a good model for any kind of leader, let alone the leader of the free world. Is Biden better? Hell no.

I would never vote for Biden. At this point Trump's going to have to change or he won't get it either. I still cling to the hope that there is enough time for things to break that another option develops.

Well, lets' put some perspective on Trumps' "vindictiveness" ... Lets' not forget this guy is and was hated by the establishments on both the left and right. His agenda faced oppositon on multiple fronts. A lot of people he trusted or was advised to trust stabbed him in the back. ..Then you have the MSM and the left-wing pundits who ran a 24/7 propoganda campaign against Trump from the minute he rode down on that escalator announcing his candidacy.Their lies and provokations alone created the vast majority of the drama surrpounding Trump's term in office... Considering what he faced, a little bit of vindictiveness is justified in my opinon...

The current attacks on DeSantis on others is political theater. It's to be expected and I am a bit suprised that others are suprised... I would remind everyone of the bitter exchanges between Trump and "Lying Ted Cruz" or "Little Marco Rubio" who subsequently became solid Trump allies after the 2016 election was over and Trump recieved the nomination.. Jeb Bush not so much, but the Bushs' have had a hard-on for Trump long before he became 45.. I wouldn't read much into Trump's attacks on anyone at this point..

Admittedly, my perspective is different to this extent.. I beleive we are in way too much trouble as a nation to get caught up in the luxury of endorsing our political leaders based on personality.. I wiill also disagree with your assertion that my faith in Trump's impact is optimistic... Even if he is unsuccessful in passing a single piece if legislation in a second term, he will most definitively have a vital impact on the most signifigant crises we face with his ability to reverse everthing that Brandon repealed from Trump's first term. Sadly, without the support of both houses when he had it, Trump's accomplished the most with the power of executive orders.. We can have a debate on the limits of executive powers, but don't underestiamte their power to alter the course of this country... Just look at how much damage Biden has done with them alone..

A lot can happen in the next year, and all I am saying is that if Trump does indeed become the republican nominee any rational, sane individal must hold their nose and vote for not only what is in their best interest, but for our nations' survival at this point.. My old political science professor once told me that if you don't vote, you also don't get the right to complain..

 

[Tundra Tiger]

"Considering what he faced, a little bit of vindictiveness is justified in my opinion..."

I struggle with this, because we are all capable of this - it's human nature. But all of us have to decide, for ourselves, when anything is "too far" and what I see as too far might be very different than what you see as too far. For me, he's not only too far, he's way too far. Feeling justified about feeling vindictive is one thing. Lashing out over every little thing is "too far". And frankly? I DO want my elected leaders to be able to be above that. I want them to be the bigger person, the adult in the room. I can't remember the last time I thought that he took the high road. No, I don't give a rat's ass what others are saying and doing; I'd like to see him be more magnanimous, and set a better example for everyone.

"The current attacks on DeSantis on others is political theater."

It may well be political theater - I can agree with you on that, though I am far from sure whether I believe that completely. Thing is, not everyone will see it for that and it just looks freaking bad when you're mudslinging your own people. This ties to my answer above, whether it's theater or not. It's just not needed.

"I believe we are in way too much trouble as a nation to get caught up in the luxury of endorsing our political leaders based on personality.."

I both agree with you and disagree with you. I do believe we are way too deep, and I'm not sure what the solution is? I want to believe - the optimistic side of me - that someone like a DeSantis (for example) and a Republican led legislature could start to right the ship. But even that might fall way, way short. As far as a luxury though... For me (my opinion, world view, and values) I do factor in a person's character. I can't not do that; it's just not in me. I want those who represent me to be of good character. His is severely lacking. I do not believe his hubris will ever allow for any degree of change.

"My old political science professor once told me that if you don't vote, you also don't get the right to complain.."

I actually have always kind of thought this. Even as I consider I might not vote, I also consider it might put me in a position of needing to shut the hell up. That's a choice I'm willing to consider.

 

[BSO Dave]

@tundratiger, you have captured my opinions perfectly! Plus, @BSO Dave, you say that Trump will uphold the Constitution while at the same time, issue more executive orders. That is an oxymoron. I know the other side abuses executive orders too. That doesn’t make it constitutional or proportional or anything other than an abuse of the office. The framers did not anticipate the executive making law all on his lonesome.

You bring up an interesting topic of debate and a reference to what the "framers intended" that I will gladly have..

Lincoln famously acknowledged that he himself may have been rightfully regarded as a bit of a tyrant for his emancipation proclamation. Using the South's own demand that as slaves be cosndidered chattle against them, Lincoln used his exectuve power to seize the slaves for the Union as one of his war powers granted to the POTUS. He further rexplained that he trusted the people to decide if his actions exceeded the powers granted to him by his office, and claimed that vindication came from him being re-elected to a second term...

Like it or not, I think Lincoln did what he felt he had to do to get his agenda implemented which was to pass the 13th Amendment by hell or high water evenif he had to be a tyrant to do it, and posertiy rewarded him for it..

Our current state of democracy is grossly dysfucntional. Historically, when the houses are at impass, (as they are sometimes eexpected to be) POTUS' have always probed their limits to implememnt their agenda, and posterity judges accordingly.. If Trump indeed is forced to use the only tools available to him to get his agenda implemented, you can damn sure expect that is exactly what he will do. If it ends up being Trump vs. Biden as the voters must then decide which tyrant they want..

 

[wesheltonj]

"Considering what he faced, a little bit of vindictiveness is justified in my opinion..."

I struggle with this, because we are all capable of this - it's human nature. But all of us have to decide, for ourselves, when anything is "too far" and what I see as too far might be very different than what you see as too far. For me, he's not only too far, he's way too far. Feeling justified about feeling vindictive is one thing. Lashing out over every little thing is "too far". And frankly? I DO want my elected leaders to be able to be above that. I want them to be the bigger person, the adult in the room. I can't remember the last time I thought that he took the high road. No, I don't give a rat's ass what others are saying and doing; I'd like to see him be more magnanimous, and set a better example for everyone. . .

Just remember Bush 2 took the high road and what did it get him. The same crap from the left and the press that Trump received. Save for the the impeachment and criminal charges, but they (the left and press) sure wanted to for "war crimes." Trump just pushed back.

I think DeSantis would make a great candidate and president. But I don't think he could handle the administrative state. Trump's "error" was not "playing ball" when Nancy and Chuck went to the White House and told Trump you either play the game or they will get you. Trump chose not the play and look what happened. Trump is the only candidate that does not have to play the game because of his wealth.

 

[Doug3006]

You bring up an interesting topic of debate and a reference to what the "framers intended" that I will gladly have..

Lincoln famously acknowledged that he himself may have been rightfully regarded as a bit of a tyrant for his emancipation proclamation. Using the South's own demand that as slaves be cosndidered chattle against them, Lincoln used his exectuve power to seize the slaves for the Union as one of his war powers granted to the POTUS. He further rexplained that he trusted the people to decide if his actions exceeded the powers granted to him by his office, and claimed that vindication came from him being re-elected to a second term...

Like it or not, I think Lincoln did what he felt he had to do to get his agenda implemented which was to pass the 13th Amendment by hell or high water evenif he had to be a tyrant to do it, and posertiy rewarded him for it..

Our current state of democracy is grossly dysfucntional. Historically, when the houses are at impass, (as they are sometimes eexpected to be) POTUS' have always probed their limits to implememnt their agenda, and posterity judges accordingly.. If Trump indeed is forced to use the only tools available to him to get his agenda implemented, you can damn sure expect that is exactly what he will do. If it ends up being Trump vs. Biden as the voters must then decide which tyrant they want..

Lincoln’s emancipation of the slaves was a violation of the Constitution, regardless of its moral correctness. The 13th amendment passed by Congress, and ratified by the States, was the proper remedy to that sad chapter. It’s not a matter of me, or anyone, or everyone liking it. His action was Unconstitutional. We either have the rule of law or we don’t.

I‘m more than willing to see some important stuff not get done than to empower any President to make law on his own. Tyranny is the inescapable end of that particular tunnel. Many people disagree with me on that. Our Constitution was designed to save us from ourselves.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

@wesheltonj

I don't want Trump to take the high road because it will make things better with the left, although I think to some degree, in pockets, it actually could accomplish that. I want him to take the high road - to be the adult - because it's the right thing to do, and the right thing is always the right thing.

Maybe you're right about DeSantis and the administrative state? I'm still hoping fervently that we get a chance to find out.

@BSO Dave ... I'm thankful for how you debate here. We may not see eye to eye on this, but I appreciate how you present your points.

@Doug3006 ... "I‘m more than willing to see some important stuff not get done than to empower any President to make law on his own. Tyranny is the inescapable end of that particular tunnel."

Well stated sir.

 

[PARA45]

 

[CoElkHunter]

Lincoln’s emancipation of the slaves was a violation of the Constitution, regardless of its moral correctness. The 13th amendment passed by Congress, and ratified by the States, was the proper remedy to that sad chapter. It’s not a matter of me, or anyone, or everyone liking it. His action was Unconstitutional. We either have the rule of law or we don’t.

I‘m more than willing to see some important stuff not get done than to empower any President to make law on his own. Tyranny is the inescapable end of that particular tunnel. Many people disagree with me on that. Our Constitution was designed to save us from ourselves.

Lincoln, through Secretary of War Edwin Stanton, also sent Union soldiers to a couple of Northern newspapers who were printing anti war and/or pro Confederacy articles and shut down the newspaper businesses. Wow! In 1816, several of the Northern states (Maine, Mass. included) threatened to secede from the Union over mostly unfair trade issues that were beneficial to the Southern states. They were basically told they could secede if they wished as the Constitution allowed it. Obviously, they didn't but then fast forward to Lincoln's election in 1860 and his ardent opposition to the Southern states secession from the Union. Then the creation of West Virginia without Virginia's legislature approving the split as required by the Constitution? A lot of murky and possibly unconstitutional laws were passed during that time in our history. When "exceptions" are made to our Constitution laws as written, it becomes a slippery slope to benefit those in power with different agendas and we have and are seeing this in real time today. IMHO, I believe our Executive Branch of Government had/has way too much power to through "executive actions" that bypass Congress to further their party's agenda. I'm wondering just how much the Executive Branch's power is actually embedded in our Constitution? The War Powers Act comes to mind?

 

[CoElkHunter]

View attachment 527284

Where's the ice cream!!!! LOL