I knew this would be a sideways thread as soon as I opened it, but seemed to settle itself down quickly. Lion is probably my top hunt out of everything on this planet. Unfortunately it’s probably a little out of reach financially.
Every major hunting organization aside from PHASA says this practice is damaging to the reputation of hunters and provides no conservation value, but I should shut my mouth and give full support to whoever participates? I think not.
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DSC, CIC Oppose Captive Bred Lion Shooting - Dallas Safari Club
[box] Read DSC’s Previous Statement on Captive Bred Lion Hunting – January 2018 [/box]www.biggame.org
No worries here! What bourbon was it??my sincere apologies everyone i may have offended!!! i do not drink much. last night i opened an early Christmas present of bourbon and had a wee too much sitting by the fire!!!!
Wild lion are being imported again. Do you get the Conservation Force newsletter?I'm pretty sure you will have to leave your trophy with your outfitter.
I'd love to hunt lion, but only when they are wild and importable into the U.S.A.
Thanks to the Cecil ordeal and Obama...
So you pick and choose the conservation groups you support? There are tons of them against all African hunting. I wouldn’t “brag” about conservation groups being against a particular style of hunting you don’t like.![]()
UNITED AGAINST CANNED LION SHOOTING - Rowland Ward
– by Paul Hunter Rowland Ward joins other conservation groups in taking a stand against the shooting of captive-bred lions. Rowland Ward Ltd. has united with several highly regarded international conservation groups to take a firm stand against the practice of captive-bred lion shooting. The...rowlandward.org
Four Roses Small Batch…embarrassed to say two small glasses did me in!!! thanks for accepting my apology!No worries here! What bourbon was it??
This isn’t a style of hunting we are talking about. This isn’t baiting vs non baiting or hunting over a food plot or a natural food source. This is an animal which is normally a predator in the wild, raised and released only to be shot for a profit. Method of hunting has absolutely nothing to do with the practice.So you pick and choose the conservation groups you support? There are tons of them against all African hunting. I wouldn’t “brag” about conservation groups being against a particular style of hunting you don’t like.
There are several places with wild lion hunting with fully healthy populations of lions. Even so, the quotas are very small and the conservations value is very high. Most areas have a quota of only two male lions per year in Zambia and Tanzania.Hi Derek,
I am in no way affiliated to any lion hunting or organisations directly in SA/Kenya. However I am well aware of differing opinions and organisations within the industry.
In SA you have captive bred hunting. There is vast difference in a proper captive bred lion hunt and what unfortunately has tainted the industry which is known as canned hunting. Almost all organisations are against canned hunting, whereas some are for captive and others against. THis is where you need to do your research and get a proper operator. Then there is the illusion that this (canned and captive breeding species only happens to lion hunting in SA, which is wrong, you have captive bred hunting of all species, specifically Buffalo, Kudu, Sable, crocodile etc.
Kenya, I do not know that well, but a quick search for hunts myself while typing this, seems to be wild unfenced hunts.
Now, I had the pleasure of meeting some pro captive bred farmers and industry leading people (note, all were against canned hunting - whether they do it not, I do not know). The argument for this type of hunt, which I 100% understand, is that on captive bred lion hunts, saves the wild lion population. Why is this? Because the hunt of a wild lion could damage the lion population. How, well if you hunt the pride male, another male would be become the pride male, killing all the previous pride male's cubs. Also, wild lion numbers are not that much, imagine every hunter hunting a wild lion, how numbers would plummet. For this exact reason, countries such as Zim etc. have introduced stringent measures for PH's to determine whether the male being hunted is not the pride male such as age etc.
This is where captive bred lions have the edge, they are bred to be hunted and the hunt will not impact the wild lion population. Also, these hunts are not as expensive.
For me, I would probably prefer a wild lion hunt on a proper 14/21 day safari. But only if I had the money and if the wild lion specifically can be confirmed to be a old lion that was kicked out of the tribe, (not baited from a reserve, nor hunted with dogs - yes all these stuff happen with the supposedly clean wild hunts as well). If not and I still just wanted to hunt a lion for the experience, then I would consider a proper captive bred hunt rather and leave the wild lions.
Currently, a lion hunt is not that high on my list because of all of the above and bad press on it. I would rather do 5X buffalo hunts.
I always thought Four Roses was fantastic. No problem! I’m sure everyone on AH knows I’ve had my moments..Four Roses Small Batch…embarrassed to say two small glasses did me in!!! thanks for accepting my apology!
the only tracking hunt I’ve been able to do has been for buffalo and my trackers were able to track a Lichtenstein hartebeest in Mozambique, an amazing piece of tracking. I wish I would have been able to afford it back when you could track both lion and leopard in Botswana. It seems to have been a very exciting hunt.absolutely thoroughly enjoyed your hunt report with a similar experience. tracking is my favorite way to hunt!
Not one of these lions came from a CBL breeding farm. There is always an attempt in this debate to draw parallels where there are none. Not all fenced lions are CBL. These lions introduced to Mozambique all came from wild managed populations from big reserves in South Africa. CBL lions are raised on 400 sq meter (per SAPA) and bred for characteristics appealing for trophy hunters not survival and released for a week prior to being shot. If there was conservation value to CBL lions originally, it’s long gone now once they started breeding white lions, lions with manes not seen anywhere in the wild, and other characteristics.2nd-ly.
Conservation value is scrutinized, but maybe also not utilized or optimized, or assesed to full potential.
Practice shows there is a real conservation potential in this.
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How the world’s largest lion relocation was pulled off
To bring lions back to central Mozambique, logistics ranged from providing safe transport to blessings from the spirit world.www.nationalgeographic.com
Every one of the organizations listed on that joint statement are a hunting organization. That says something to me. You’ll also notice it’s referred to as shooting not hunting. For good reason as well, it’s a farming practice with a unique harvesting method unfortunately sold as hunting.So you pick and choose the conservation groups you support? There are tons of them against all African hunting. I wouldn’t “brag” about conservation groups being against a particular style of hunting you don’t like.
If we are going to be honest we need to decide the model we support because they are contradictory to each other. We can support the limited quota and sustainable hunting model where we only take off older animals and allow the rest of the herd to thrive. Money paid supports area improvements, anti-poaching, community engagement, etc. Or we can support the farming model such as CBL where Farmer commercially raises animals, animal is transported and stocked prior to hunt for a hunter, animal is harvested. Money goes to outfitter to market more “hunts” and money goes to farmer to commercially raise more lions, none of the money is used to establish a population of lions outside the breeding facility. To me supporting the farming model with lions devalues wild lions and hurts wild areas. No money goes towards conservation shooting a CBL lion. Maybe 50 lions get shot in a year off a 10,000 acre ranch used for CBL shooting. Maybe 2 lions get shot a year off a 100k acre concession. One is conservation, one is farming with a unique harvesting method. It’s not an argument of tracking vs baiting. There are wild and wild managed lions you can hunt by tracking if you’d like. The argument to me is support conservation or support a farming practice.Let's be honest, everything is damaging to the reputation of hunters when it comes to hunting.
Most none hunting people, feel animals have the same rights as people. They live in a fantasy world, they don't even realize their hamburger is made from a cow. Read the comments on YouTube in a hunting series/post. The amount of hate is unreal.
Dog fighting, something I could never do has happened before any of us were every thought about. Shutdown because of people's feelings. Cock fighting same thing (in the US anyways). Reasons are the same. I know this is apple and orange as far as hunting CBL, my point is people who do not agree with hunting can less about how of why the hunt happens, their beautiful Simba was murdered.
CBL is a touchy subject that everyone feels a way about. Some hate it some love it, some it's not a big deal one way or the other. I like the idea of tracking vs baiting. That is my personal preference, someone who baits I get it too. Have hunted black bear both ways, I know which way I like better. At the end of the day people have strong feelings about their beliefs, human nature.
This definition I haven't been aware. Thanks for clarification!These lions introduced to Mozambique all came from wild managed populations from big reserves in South Africa. CBL lions are raised on 400 sq meter (per SAPA) and bred for characteristics appealing for trophy hunters not survival and released for a week prior to being shot.