Hunting SA or "Wild" Africa - Which is Better

[Red Leg]

Between 10 and 20 other hunters in camp while we were there. I don't know where they were hunting, I don't know where I was hunting, where ever my PH took me. Never saw another hunter in rhe field, only in camp.

I think a lot of hunters, having had a "once in a lifetime experience" with a certain outfitter, feel comfortable only returning to that setting. We have members here who have been to Africa several times always with the same outfitter.

If we think about it, a good comparison would be flying into San Antonio from Germany to hunt the 777 ranch. Our jaeger leaves a week later after rebooking with a whitetail, axis, and elk, to tell his friends what it is like to hunt North America. I would simply note that even just the southern half of the African continent is a huge place with vastly different hunting experiences.

Additionally, I personally can't imagine sharing an African hunting "camp" with 10-20 other people. A duck or goose lodge in Maryland or Louisiana - maybe - but not hunting Africa. I am also interested in a management plan that can sustain that sort of mature animal take from just self-sustaining herds. Perhaps one of the South African operators can offer insight?

There are fabulous opportunities in Namibia and South Africa that can offer a far more intimate and less obviously commercial hunting experience. Each of those places opens a whole new set of windows on totally different parts of southern Africa.

 

[Frederik]

A few points I might add about South Africa specifically.

There are hidden gems outhere and the transformation of land that used to be grazing only for cattle and sheep over the last 35 years or so is amazing.

Species like even the common old blue wildebeest was not found on all game farms. Nyala was an animal found only found in Northern Natal you were lucky to see sable nevermind roan.
Rhinos only in national parks and special reserves.

Then the trophy hunters came not just the hunters who came to shoot yearly rations of biltong. The farm owners saw an opportunity and suddenly game farms started to come up like mushrooms all over especially in the 90's and early 2000's.

Now every private owner thought of his own property as a piece of paradise and through times and tested recipes you will find hunting lodges of all kinds and shapes. Then the tented camps popped up for those that didnt feel like they were in Africa at a luxury lodge.

What I'm trying to get at is that as every owner of a farm have his own ideas so does the individuals who visit and hunt there and have their experiences. There is a spot for everyone to enjoy his flavour of hunting and becaue of that South Africa can boast and declare that there is more game to be found than there ever was before any fences were erected and the diversty is just incredible.

Do your homework and speak to hunters who you know think the way you do and go and visit different areas if you can. There are gems found everywhere and sometimes they are so rare you don't even talk about it and keep it to yourself.

As a last sidenote when reading old hunting and explorers books you really had to go out of your way to find real wild Africa even if it was the 17th century and you landed in the Cape of good Hope.
Animals were not restricted by fence or boundaries and was dependant on water and feed. They migrated after it and you could find yourself in millions of acres of land without seeing any game except a steenbuck who is not dependant on surface water.

I blame it on the wonderful movies like Out of Africa, Hatari, Tarzan and King Solomon Mines.
All of those give you a false view of what Africa was like just like me seeing Cowboy movies and expecting a Bison and Red Indian bearing a tomahawk to be around every corner when visiting America.

 

[Frederik]

To reply to myself on the above post as a hunter going back 30 years in memory imagening to hunt my own buffalo and lion meant that I would have needed a fortune and very good luck. Here now I had the opportunity to hunt lion twice and gathering trophies of species that was difficult to find.

So I am very thankfull that farmers saw the gap and the opportunity to make South Africa the top hunting destination in Africa.

 

[Vintageguy]

To reply to myself on the above post as a hunter going back 30 years in memory imagening to hunt my own buffalo and lion meant that I would have needed a fortune and very good luck. Here now I had the opportunity to hunt lion twice and gathering trophies of species that was difficult to find.

So I am very thankfull that farmers saw the gap and the opportunity to make South Africa the top hunting destination in Africa.

Well said. I’ve read many times of those hunters of old spending weeks in land devoid of game. I’ve thought many times of how the current times, speed of transportation, and current affordability of Africa for those working class folks to whom the dreams are worth the sacrifice in other areas to save and go have allowed me to experience it. What I saw in South Africa was an industry benefiting everything and everyone associated with it. It’s saddens me to think that people who are so passionate about wildlife won’t take the time nor listen to learn what has been done there and what would be lost if hunting were stopped. There’s something for everyone to enjoy in Africa and all hunters and lovers of wildlife should applaud that and need to if it’s to last.

 

[Deepfork]

I think a lot of hunters, having had a "once in a lifetime experience" with a certain outfitter, feel comfortable only returning to that setting. We have members here who have been to Africa several times always with the same outfitter.

If we think about it, a good comparison would be flying into San Antonio from Germany to hunt the 777 ranch. Our jaeger leaves a week later after rebooking with a whitetail, axis, and elk, to tell his friends what it is like to hunt North America. I would simply note that even just the southern half of the African continent is a huge place with vastly different hunting experiences.

Additionally, I personally can't imagine sharing an African hunting "camp" with 10-20 other people. A duck or goose lodge in Maryland or Louisiana - maybe - but not hunting Africa. I am also interested in a management plan that can sustain that sort of mature animal take from just self-sustaining herds. Perhaps one of the South African operators can offer insight?

There are fabulous opportunities in Namibia and South Africa that can offer a far more intimate and less obviously commercial hunting experience. Each of those places opens a whole new set of windows on totally different parts of southern Africa.

Interesting how some seemed shocked "" I said there were 10-20 hunters in our camp. Maybe "camp" was the wrong word. It was a lodge with great facilities to take care of that many hunters. I enjoyed the atmosphere. That being said the camp was empty before daybreak and few returned before dark. The area we were in Limpopo was nothing but game farms. I never saw other hunters from our camp or any other outfitter for that mater while we were there, once we left camp.

I had questions about management and sustainability, talked to our outfitter and even some land owners in depth about it. No doubt there are put and take operations in South Africa, we did not hunt any, our outfitter does not guide on any. They explained what type of management they do, its very limited.

We also spent part of our trip in Free State. Totally different experience and different landscapes. We were the only hunters in the lodge. No game farms we were on a large private reserve.

I had a great experience. One of the most memorable parts was the interaction with those "10-20" other hunters in the evenings. People from all over..couples, familes with kids. I was there with my two sons. We were all cheering for a young girl, 12 I think that was there with her dad. She badly wanted a Zebra, needed a rug for here room of course. She got lots of advise, got to hear of everyones zebra sighting. Finally on their last hunting day she got her Zebra, everyone was elated! She was quiet all week but enjoyed telling her story over and over and being the hero in camp that evening.

My sons and I have booked again with the same outfitter, and are taking our wives next time.

There is a amazing amount of information on this site.

Also a fair number of snobs that think if you are not doing it their way you are doing it wrong.

 

[WAB]

Interesting how some seemed shocked "" I said there were 10-20 hunters in our camp. Maybe "camp" was the wrong word. It was a lodge with great facilities to take care of that many hunters. I enjoyed the atmosphere. That being said the camp was empty before daybreak and few returned before dark. The area we were in Limpopo was nothing but game farms. I never saw other hunters from our camp or any other outfitter for that mater while we were there, once we left camp.

I had questions about management and sustainability, talked to our outfitter and even some land owners in depth about it. No doubt there are put and take operations in South Africa, we did not hunt any, our outfitter does not guide on any. They explained what type of management they do, its very limited.

We also spent part of our trip in Free State. Totally different experience and different landscapes. We were the only hunters in the lodge. No game farms we were on a large private reserve.

I had a great experience. One of the most memorable parts was the interaction with those "10-20" other hunters in the evenings. People from all over..couples, familes with kids. I was there with my two sons. We were all cheering for a young girl, 12 I think that was there with her dad. She badly wanted a Zebra, needed a rug for here room of course. She got lots of advise, got to hear of everyones zebra sighting. Finally on their last hunting day she got her Zebra, everyone was elated! She was quiet all week but enjoyed telling her story over and over and being the hero in camp that evening.

My sons and I have booked again with the same outfitter, and are taking our wives next time.

There is a amazing amount of information on this site.

Also a fair number of snobs that think if you are not doing it their way you are doing it wrong.

It really gets down to what you like and what you are willing to spend your money on. I have a strong preference for bush camps in wild concessions. I do not want other parties in camp. That doesn’t make your experience bad or denigrate South African game ranches, it is just not what I prefer, or where I would choose to spend my money.

The practicality of the type of hunting I prefer would be very difficult to execute in the environment you enjoyed. I like tracking hunts. This means long walks (some days may be 20 to 25 km) on the tracks of eland, buffalo or elephant. Although I have done spot and stalk hunting for plains game, it is not what I fly to Africa for. The important thing in either type of hunt is to do your research and hunt with a quality outfit that understands and will meet your expectations.

 

[0002S]

If we think about it, a good comparison would be flying into San Antonio from Germany to hunt the 777 ranch. Our jaeger leaves a week later after rebooking with a whitetail, axis, and elk, to tell his friends what it is like to hunt North America. I would simply note that even just the southern half of the African continent is a huge place with vastly different hunting experiences.

This man gets it.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Wildlife ranching in South Africa has been the saving Grace for all wildlife in Southern Africa. There are more privately owned game animals in SA than in all the National parks including lions and rhino but excluding elephants. It is only possible thanks to you the hunter that makes it viable.Most outfitters use large concession areas so you don’t feel like you are hunting fish in a barrel! If you prescribe to ethical hunting a fenced in areas will still be a challenge!

Wildlife ranching in South Africa has been the saving Grace for all wildlife in Southern Africa. After the years of work and expense in Zimbabwe all we had to do was sit back and let RSA save our wildlife?

 

[375Fox]

Interesting how some seemed shocked "" I said there were 10-20 hunters in our camp. Maybe "camp" was the wrong word. It was a lodge with great facilities to take care of that many hunters. I enjoyed the atmosphere. That being said the camp was empty before daybreak and few returned before dark. The area we were in Limpopo was nothing but game farms. I never saw other hunters from our camp or any other outfitter for that mater while we were there, once we left camp.

I had questions about management and sustainability, talked to our outfitter and even some land owners in depth about it. No doubt there are put and take operations in South Africa, we did not hunt any, our outfitter does not guide on any. They explained what type of management they do, its very limited.

We also spent part of our trip in Free State. Totally different experience and different landscapes. We were the only hunters in the lodge. No game farms we were on a large private reserve.

I had a great experience. One of the most memorable parts was the interaction with those "10-20" other hunters in the evenings. People from all over..couples, familes with kids. I was there with my two sons. We were all cheering for a young girl, 12 I think that was there with her dad. She badly wanted a Zebra, needed a rug for here room of course. She got lots of advise, got to hear of everyones zebra sighting. Finally on their last hunting day she got her Zebra, everyone was elated! She was quiet all week but enjoyed telling her story over and over and being the hero in camp that evening.

My sons and I have booked again with the same outfitter, and are taking our wives next time.

There is a amazing amount of information on this site.

Also a fair number of snobs that think if you are not doing it their way you are doing it wrong.

I am focusing on on your final comment. What I’ve seen here is all first time hunters to South Africa think their hunt couldn’t be better and liked everything they saw. However, it’s easy to focus on the experience at hand and close your eyes to what goes on behind scenes. The more African hunts and outfitters you hunt with the more you can compare. 10-20 hunters a week isn’t normal and isn’t sustainable. No South African outfitter that operates this way wants to openly admit it, so the definition of sustainable gets changed, those properties have to have a huge yearly supplementation to sustain that level of trophy hunting. Property owners don’t let their properties sit idle when there is game readily available to buy and a camp with 20 hunters in it that week and the next week to sell to. The last time I visited my taxidermist, he was able to show me a recent South Africa shipment with multiple trophies with ear tag holes. Most clients are going to be too caught up in experience to even notice, but it’s there.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

These guys with 10-20 people in camp are hunting on various areas
Its a different model to how we operate. I have nothing against it
These outfitters probably have exclusive access to 20 different farms and have quotas on those areas that they need to meet for the season

The hole in the ear thing is blown way out of proportion. Could be from fighting and could be from a tag. This doesnt mean the animal is domesticated in anyway. Maybe it was tagged at sometime for a variety of diffetent reasons but may have been fending for itself in that area for the last 10 years.

I have seen pics of buff taken in zim amd zambia with “tag holes” in the ear

Stop pointing fingers at each other guys
Just enjoy the hunting

 

[Red Leg]

Also a fair number of snobs that think if you are not doing it their way you are doing it wrong.

Sigh. I quoted your first message, but my comments really were directed at the larger readership. I truly regret you may have taken offense. Though, the 10 - 20 other hunters did catch my somewhat horrified eye.

I suppose you could be correct and those with broader experience are by definition "snobs." It would not be my definition. That would seem to be like labeling the mechanic snobbish who is showing me around my new truck. Nowhere did I suggest you should do it "my way." whatever that is.

I could turn this around and ask what to call someone who has been to Africa once, experienced the offerings of a single outfitter. and now has it all figured out.

I am thrilled for you that you had a great experience on that first trip. Indeed, a well appointed lodge may be just the ticket for a non-hunting spouse. Virtually any hunting experience in southern Africa is better than sitting at home.

I simply tried to point out that there is a lot of Africa besides that type of PG hunting experience. Those comments are offered generally more than they are specifically to you. For roughly the same costs and in a far less contrived environment, there are vast conservancies and ranches in Namibia and South Africa teaming with truly self-sustaining game. Many, particularly in Namibia, are low fence. All will be far less industrial in their throughput of clients.

Or save a bit more and be a bit bolder and do a PG hunt in Mozambique or Zambia, hunting Nyala, Lechwe, Waterbuck, Sable, etc in their actual environment rather than high desert in the RSA (my Texas example).

And of course, a buffalo should be awaiting you in your future as well.

My real message is that the client who returns exclusively to the same outfitter is simply denying himself those far broader experiences.

 

[BRICKBURN]

…….

Stop pointing fingers at each other guys
Just enjoy the hunting

There is an interesting idea.

 

[Nyati]

I think we are again

Most of us, I´m sure, would prefer hunting wild Africa, but SA has made African hunting affordable to the middle class.

 

[John Wasmuth]

Also a fair number of snobs that think if you are not doing it their way you are doing it wrong.

Snobs? Lol!!! That’s putting it lightly ……

 

[revturbo9967]

I think we are again

Most of us, I´m sure, would prefer hunting wild Africa, but SA has made African hunting affordable to the middle class.

I'm having a hard time seeing how SA is more affordable then some other areas. I did about as much research as any in the booking stage and once I compared the numbers, I would not pay mush more in Zim then I would in SA for the same animals.

I think there is more guaranteed satisfaction that surrounds SA which makes it so appealing.

 

[Deepfork]

Sigh. I quoted your first message, but my comments really were directed at the larger readership. I truly regret you may have taken offense. Though, the 10 - 20 other hunters did catch my somewhat horrified eye.

I suppose you could be correct and those with broader experience are by definition "snobs." It would not be my definition. That would seem to be like labeling the mechanic snobbish who is showing me around my new truck. Nowhere did I suggest you should do it "my way." whatever that is.

I could turn this around and ask what to call someone who has been to Africa once, experienced the offerings of a single outfitter. and now has it all figured out.

I am thrilled for you that you had a great experience on that first trip. Indeed, a well appointed lodge may be just the ticket for a non-hunting spouse. Virtually any hunting experience in southern Africa is better than sitting at home.

I simply tried to point out that there is a lot of Africa besides that type of PG hunting experience. Those comments are offered generally more than they are specifically to you. For roughly the same costs and in a far less contrived environment, there are vast conservancies and ranches in Namibia and South Africa teaming with truly self-sustaining game. Many, particularly in Namibia, are low fence. All will be far less industrial in their throughput of clients.

Or save a bit more and be a bit bolder and do a PG hunt in Mozambique or Zambia, hunting Nyala, Lechwe, Waterbuck, Sable, etc in their actual environment rather than high desert in the RSA (my Texas example).

And of course, a buffalo should be awaiting you in your future as well.

My real message is that the client who returns exclusively to the same outfitter is simply denying himself those far broader experiences.

No offense taken I promise! I also was trying to make a point about a bunch of posts, not just yours.

 

[Deepfork]

These guys with 10-20 people in camp are hunting on various areas
Its a different model to how we operate. I have nothing against it
These outfitters probably have exclusive access to 20 different farms and have quotas on those areas that they need to meet for the season

The hole in the ear thing is blown way out of proportion. Could be from fighting and could be from a tag. This doesnt mean the animal is domesticated in anyway. Maybe it was tagged at sometime for a variety of diffetent reasons but may have been fending for itself in that area for the last 10 years.

I have seen pics of buff taken in zim amd zambia with “tag holes” in the ear

Stop pointing fingers at each other guys
Just enjoy the hunting

Exactly what I was getting at. Quite a few hunters at the lodge yes. But we scattered over a very large area, and a lot of different farms and reserves.

 

[Deepfork]

I think we are again

Most of us, I´m sure, would prefer hunting wild Africa, but SA has made African hunting affordable to the middle class.

Wow, truth be told no one is allowed to hunt "wild Africa". Once again, snobery! I can hunt ANYWHERE I WANT! I've hunted in Spain, have you? My two boys and I took 26 animals last year in SA in six days of hunting. We all have good gear and know how to shoot. We had a ton of fun and spent a ton of money. And we are booked again! We could actually spend much less and stay in a tent some where and walk more and see fewer fences and take fewer animals and pretend we are superior because our camp looks like 1923 instead of 2023. And that might be worth it to keep from having to cross paths with the middle class riff raff.

Quote By: Nyati

"SA has made African hunting affordable to the middle class"

You sir, are clueless! I don't go South Africa because I can only afford the cheap seats. I go because I like it.

 

[Scott CWO]

Wow, truth be told no one is allowed to hunt "wild Africa". Once again, snobery! I can hunt ANYWHERE I WANT! I've hunted in Spain, have you? My two boys and I took 26 animals last year in SA in six days of hunting. We all have good gear and know how to shoot. We had a ton of fun and spent a ton of money. And we are booked again! We could actually spend much less and stay in a tent some where and walk more and see fewer fences and take fewer animals and pretend we are superior because our camp looks like 1923 instead of 2023. And that might be worth it to keep from having to cross paths with the middle class riff raff.

Quote By: Nyati

"SA has made African hunting affordable to the middle class"

You sir, are clueless! I don't go South Africa because I can only afford the cheap seats. I go because I like it.

@Deepfork I think you took his comment wrong. @Nyati was just saying that we are beating a dead horse by now with this thread. He is a regular here on AH and wasn’t directly referring to you as to the middle class. I believe he was just saying that South Africa is more affordable than wilderness safari areas in other countries and that he appreciates South Africa for that. There are good deals posted on AH all the time in SA for several animals for very reasonable prices compared to wilderness safari areas. He wasn’t putting SA or you down. He was actually complimenting SA for offering reasonable prices that the middle class can afford.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

guys, each to their own, and ive said this before
we cant impose our ideas on each other, as long as we are hunting and advocate for hunting, then thats all thats important.
shoot from a stand with a rifle, bow or pointed stick, or walk 30km with a double in hand....end of the hunt there is hopefully a dead animal. there is no difference!!
all the stuff that happens in between are momories, moments to savour. not to compare or degrade. you eat your burger with a knife and fork, other by hand, others take tomato off other like extra sauce, other prefer drive thru and some like to sit down. whats the f*@#ing difference. the burger gets eaten

we all have our own way and choice and we are all different and we should all appreciate each other for exactly these reasons. if everyone in the world were the same or every hunt was conducted only in one manner, how boring the world would be!!!!