Hunting SA or "Wild" Africa - Which is Better

[Deepfork]

@Deepfork I think you took his comment wrong. @Nyati was just saying that we are beating a dead horse by now with this thread. He is a regular here on AH and wasn’t directly referring to you as to the middle class. I believe he was just saying that South Africa is more affordable than wilderness safari areas in other countries and that he appreciates South Africa for that. There are good deals posted on AH all the time in SA for several animals for very reasonable prices compared to wilderness safari areas. He wasn’t putting SA or you down. He was actually complimenting SA for offering reasonable prices that the middle class can afford.

I disagree with his premise. South Africa offers something different in the game farm / game ranch packed areas. Its not necessarily cheaper.

And I am middle class, maybe even lower upper middle class. All we can hope for is that safari prices SA don't drop enough that the upper lower class can get in!!!

 

[HookMeUpII]

I am slated to hunt SA in May. My take on "true wild" vs. "semi wild" (I think is a better term) is what exactly is high-fence? Is it high-fence around 1000 acres? Or is it high-fence around 70,000 acres? We run into the same thing here in NA. 3 years ago we planned a wild boar hunt. The experiences we came across ranged from:

- We will release your hog, it may take a little to find it, but we will, and you may shoot it against a fence. Hard pass.
- We run a managed property of XXX acres. We have a ton of hogs. There is a good chance you may find one. Probably better than 60-70%. Still not our cup of tea.
- We lease the rights to hunt a bunch of different areas. We have lots of hogs down here. None of the areas are high fence, some have fences but the hogs can go right through them as they please. This is what we chose.

On that hunt, 5 out of the 12 hunters harvested pigs. Less than 50% success rate. I was fortunate to do so. Now if you ask me, I thought it was a great experience. If you ask the other 7, the answer may be different. Some of those 7 went on to book more high success rate hunts afterwards with other outfits.

It's a tough call really. I know SA was an easy choice for us for a few reasons:

1) Seems like travel to and from as well as import process of firearms is more than straightforward. In our case with the boar hunt, a 13 hour drive within our country of domicile was not a big deal. Traveling somewhere that flies loose with the rules in terms of restrictions and/or has a very difficult travel process definitely weighs into the decision.

2) The accommodations seem very nice. I've experienced everything from sleeping in a tent during the rainy season on the border of Venezuela to bunking in a small, but comfortable lodge in Georgia with 11 of my closest friends and family. I don't think sleeping in a spike camp in the middle of the wilderness makes it more hunting than another experience. But, some people thrive and live for that. You also may THINK you live for that until you experience it. Case in point, my experience in Colombia/Venezuela. It's all fun and games until you're in the proverbial "poo" and you realize: "Wow, this is pretty serious." There were people in my party that when the lights went out, the rain started coming down, and the mosquitoes were so thick it looked like smoke; they went to pieces.

3) While I am NOT by any means a high-fence or put-take hunter, I did want something where we may have at least a better chance of success. A high fence around 10's of 1000's of acres seems reasonable to me. 14-15 hours on a plane is a long way to go to potentially not see a darn thing.

But, once again, I am very much a novice. I think the answer for someone who has cut their teeth in more semi-wild areas might be seeking more.

 

[Rare Breed]

I'm going to open a can of worms here and I realize that. Before I start I want to say that I'm speaking from my own personal experiences and from talking to others that have hunted both fenced areas in SA and "open" concessions. My conclusion is there is good and bad about both areas and you need to understand this when going to both the fenced and wild areas.

Let me start with the obvious, no matter how large the fenced area, you are still within a fence. No way around that in SA and much of Namibia. My first hunt like many of us was in SA on a large and very well known ranch. When I say large it was right at 40,000 acres. We saw tons of animals, good quality trophies, and the animals were super spooky. They didn't stand there and let you shoot them. We took long hikes, stalked our animals, and shot nice animals. My hunting partner shot a nice average hard boss buffalo with a bow after a long stalk. We walked away very satisfied and we had a great time. The only animals I ever saw at a feeder of any kind were Rhinos. Still, I said to myself I'll never hunt behind a fence again, no matter how large.

Fast forward a few years and I plan a trip to Zimbabwe for buffalo. Not knowing it at the time, I booked with a crook and was badly taken. I wrote a report about it on this site which you can find if you dig a little. Lets just say I only saw a couple buffalo in 12 days and ended up shooting a Zebra on the last day which took three years and a lot of dollars to get home because they didn't fill out the paperwork. This trip almost made me avoid Africa in the future. My own fault, I didn't dig deep enough before booking. The references he gave wrote glowing reports, but had I dug deeper I would have found other very disturbing reports.

Now I decided I'm really going to do it right and went with a very well known PH in Mozambique. It was brutal getting to camp but I honestly didn't mind that because it was wild Africa! After 4 plane rides and three truck rides and two boat rides I made it to camp. To say I was pumped was an understatement. We were on buffalo every time we left camp and on the third day we shot an average buffalo which I was told to shoot by the PH. It was the first shooter bull I had ever seen and I took him at his word and shot. Had I known what I know now I wouldn't have shot. So I got my first buffalo. However, after all that travel, we would be out hunting and we would continually see locals walking around, riding bikes, etc. There were poacher snares and gin traps everywhere, and we even caught some poachers while out on a hunt. It was 115 degrees and of course no air conditioning, but after the second night we were given a small battery operated fan which at the time was wonderful!. I was in "wild" Africa but I saw more people on this trip than on my other two trips and far more than my trip in SA. The animals seemed to be accustomed to seeing humans and really didn't react in the same spooky manner that they did in SA.

Now I decide I'm really going to go overboard, do my homework, spend more money than I had before and book with a very well known PH in Zambia. We land at the airport and a PH is there to pick us up but not our PH. On the way to camp I ask if our PH is in camp and he said no, he was in another country and not feeling well so they wouldn't let him on the plane. No one had taken the time to tell us this even though we all had email and texting and they had know this for some time. Then we get to camp and we go to sight in the rifles. I was going to bring my Blaser R8 but my PH says don't bother, we have a Blaser R8 here in camp with a Swarovski scope that you can use. Well guess what, they forgot to bring the rifle to camp. I now have a CZ. Bad start but we were determined not to let it ruin our trip. The PH we now had was great, hunted hard, long days, for 10 days. Saw tons of buffalo and I mean tons. On one herd I stopped counting at 600 but not one hard bossed bull. Once again, we saw tons of people walking around, hiking riding bikes, farming, etc. Animals seemed accustomed to seeing people and my friend killed an average bull with a bow that allowed us to drive up and get close to so he could get out and shoot. That was the only decent hard bossed bull we saw in ten hard days of hunting. It was his first bull and he was happy. Two days we drove 2 1/2 hours each way to hunt a certain area, so 5 hours of our day was wasted driving. We saw lots of other animals but nothing of trophy quality. Not a decent Impala, warthog, Kudu, etc. My friend did shoot a nice Croc and there was no shortage of Crocs or hippo. I left there after 10 days and didn't fire a shot. I honestly had a great time hunting with the PH and would hunt with him again anytime, but not in that area. There is nothing we could have done any differently to give ourselves a better chance. It just wasn't in the cards for me on this trip and that is hunting.

So now I'm eating my words and going back to SA on another large fenced area this May. This one is 50,000 acres. Hunting with a young PH who's family has been in the business but has had mostly European clients and wants to break into the American market. I chose to go back to SA for several reasons. The first being, while I like to see the villages and meet the local people I don't like running into them while I'm hunting. I don't like all the poaching that goes on in many of the wild areas and not being able to find decent trophy quality no matter how hard you hunt. To be honest, it feels more wild to me in SA than it does in some of the other so called wild areas. Animals seem more wary because they are hunted, you don't waste time driving to distant areas to hunt, and trophy quality and cost are better. I want to say, money factors in to all my decisions as I'm a retired school principal so when I take these trips it is because I've saved to take them. If I had unlimited funds sure I'd go to Tanzania or some of the other places, but I just can't justify double the cost and believe me I've tried. I know this is going to rub people the wrong way, and some are going to say if you'd done your homework you would have had better hunts. Believe me I did my homework. The guy in Zim was a crook and a very slick crook who conned many people. The others were just tough luck.

I'm writing this to see if any of you feel the same way as I am beginning to feel. Many of the "wild" areas aren't really that wild, and if you choose the right place SA can be a very positive and challenging experience. Believe me I'm not looking for easy. I'll hunt as hard as the PH will allow. I don't need a guarantee to kill something, as I said I had a great time last year in Zambia and I never fired a shot and honestly was never tempted by any of the animals to fire a shot. I would just not like to deal with the extra stuff that you can run into in some of these "wild" areas. I just want to go to an area with a reasonable expectation of finding some quality animals and hunt with someone that will hunt hard and make things enjoyable and at the same time not spend all of my life's savings. Am I the only one who feels this way?

To me it is 100% the hunting experience. I have hunted multiple times in SA and going to Zim in August. I just do not ever get hung up on fence or no fence…what is the experience like. On my last Safari the jes was so thick I tore up two hunting shirts before getting the animals I came for with three being what Africa gave me at the time. The acreage has nothing to do with it. The animals acted totally wild meaning one wrong wind shift and they were gone. Just my POV. So sorry for the bad experiences. With AH.com it just seems extremely hard to hunt with an outfit without our members warning someone of a bad experience. For myself I just choose not to hunt with any outfitter I can’t vet on our forum period

 

[Scott CWO]

I disagree with his premise. South Africa offers something different in the game farm / game ranch packed areas. Its not necessarily cheaper.

And I am middle class, maybe even lower upper middle class. All we can hope for is that safari prices SA don't drop enough that the upper lower class can get in!!!

Okay, well there are very few areas in SA that approach $1000 per day daily fees for plains game. I know of a few and a few more that are $750. The vast majority are less.

Plains game daily fees in most open concession wilderness areas in other countries start at $750 and go up from there. I paid $1600 daily fees last year in Zambia. So, in all but a few instances, SA is less expensive. That’s all @Nyati was saying.

 

[WAB]

Okay, well there are very few areas in SA that approach $1000 per day daily fees for plains game. I know of a few and a few more that are $750. The vast majority are less.

Plains game daily fees in most open concession wilderness areas in other countries start at $750 and go up from there. I paid $1600 daily fees last year in Zambia. So, in all but a few instances, SA is less expensive. That’s all @Nyati was saying.

Totally agree with Scott, and I think that offense was taken where none was intended.

Also, saying one prefers one venue over another does not mean that you are denigrating others preferences. A thicker skin may be in order.

 

[Deepfork]

Okay, well there are very few areas in SA that approach $1000 per day daily fees for plains game. I know of a few and a few more that are $750. The vast majority are less.

Plains game daily fees in most open concession wilderness areas in other countries start at $750 and go up from there. I paid $1600 daily fees last year in Zambia. So, in all but a few instances, SA is less expensive. That’s all @Nyati was saying.

I get that. The variable is the opportunity to spend a lot more on
trophy fees on the Limpopo game farms than you could/would in other settings.

 

[375Fox]

I get that. The variable is the opportunity to spend a lot more on
trophy fees on the Limpopo game farms than you could/would in other settings.

If your goal at this stage is getting the most animals in shortest days South Africa is the place. I’m glad you enjoyed your first African hunting experience but you can’t compare unless you’ve hunted other areas as well. Everyone thinks their first African hunt is the best and it probably is their best hunt to that time. You can call me and others snobs, but there are people with a lot of experience to compare experiences on this forum. I’ve hunted 3 European countries on 6 trips, 5 African countries on 11 trips, Australia/NZ, USA/Canada, many others with here have more experience than me. You can’t compare without seeing multiple operations in different countries. There are a lot of things I love about hunting in South Africa but a lot of things I disagree with as well particularly in how hunts are marketed. Hunting other African countries gives a completely different perspective.

 

[Rickmt]

Geeez enough already !

 

[PARA45]

It all boils down on how deep your pockets are, and what experience you want out of the hunt. I've hunted SA twice and had a great experience especially with the last safari in the Eastern Cape. I worked my tail off and earn every one of the animals I shot. I'd love to go to a true wild place and listen to the wild African night serenade, but I know what my limitations are ($$$), so, I'll stick to what I can afford and enjoy hunting different areas of SA.

 

[Scott CWO]

I get that. The variable is the opportunity to spend a lot more on
trophy fees on the Limpopo game farms than you could/would in other settings.

I glad you now understand that @Nyati didn't mean what you thought.

The trophy list available on my hunt in Zambia was for 28 animals. I shot 10 but could have shot many more. It all depends on what is available, what you have already taken and the trophy fee costs. There are open areas with lots of species and high success. Zambian trophy fees are pretty steep so I stopped and I had already shot some of those animals in other areas and countries. Good luck on your next safari!

 

[Mountaineer]

I have hunted “wild” places. 200 to 300 miles from any road. I love those places in Alaska. I was supposed to be visiting PH’s in Harrisburg last weekend and Nashville in two weeks looking for a wild area my wife and kids (youngest 19) would all be comfortable with. Then came the curve ball. I’m now sitting in a hospital where we have been for 4 days due to a crohn’s flare up. Now it’s apparent we will need to consider are there medical facilities available. I have hunted SA and Namibia and loved them both. All that said, do what you can with who you can and enjoy every minute. Life changes.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

I am slated to hunt SA in May. My take on "true wild" vs. "semi wild" (I think is a better term) is what exactly is high-fence? Is it high-fence around 1000 acres? Or is it high-fence around 70,000 acres? We run into the same thing here in NA. 3 years ago we planned a wild boar hunt. The experiences we came across ranged from:

- We will release your hog, it may take a little to find it, but we will, and you may shoot it against a fence. Hard pass.
- We run a managed property of XXX acres. We have a ton of hogs. There is a good chance you may find one. Probably better than 60-70%. Still not our cup of tea.
- We lease the rights to hunt a bunch of different areas. We have lots of hogs down here. None of the areas are high fence, some have fences but the hogs can go right through them as they please. This is what we chose.

On that hunt, 5 out of the 12 hunters harvested pigs. Less than 50% success rate. I was fortunate to do so. Now if you ask me, I thought it was a great experience. If you ask the other 7, the answer may be different. Some of those 7 went on to book more high success rate hunts afterwards with other outfits.

It's a tough call really. I know SA was an easy choice for us for a few reasons:

1) Seems like travel to and from as well as import process of firearms is more than straightforward. In our case with the boar hunt, a 13 hour drive within our country of domicile was not a big deal. Traveling somewhere that flies loose with the rules in terms of restrictions and/or has a very difficult travel process definitely weighs into the decision.

2) The accommodations seem very nice. I've experienced everything from sleeping in a tent during the rainy season on the border of Venezuela to bunking in a small, but comfortable lodge in Georgia with 11 of my closest friends and family. I don't think sleeping in a spike camp in the middle of the wilderness makes it more hunting than another experience. But, some people thrive and live for that. You also may THINK you live for that until you experience it. Case in point, my experience in Colombia/Venezuela. It's all fun and games until you're in the proverbial "poo" and you realize: "Wow, this is pretty serious." There were people in my party that when the lights went out, the rain started coming down, and the mosquitoes were so thick it looked like smoke; they went to pieces.

3) While I am NOT by any means a high-fence or put-take hunter, I did want something where we may have at least a better chance of success. A high fence around 10's of 1000's of acres seems reasonable to me. 14-15 hours on a plane is a long way to go to potentially not see a darn thing.

But, once again, I am very much a novice. I think the answer for someone who has cut their teeth in more semi-wild areas might be seeking more.

Come on! Colombia is not that bad! You are going to scare off all our tourists!

You are going to enjoy your upcoming trip to SA.

Safe travels and Safe hunting

 

[HookMeUpII]

Come on! Colombia is not that bad! You are going to scare off all our tourists!

You are going to enjoy your upcoming trip to SA.

Safe travels and Safe hunting

By and large I have a tremendous love for Colombia. My wife's family are the absolute best of people. I think it's like anything else really. You can find yourself wandering into trouble wherever you go.

For the average tourist visiting Medellin, Cartegna, Bogota, Cali, etc., you would have to try very, very hard to find yourself where we were lol

Literally, counting the minutes until we depart!

 

[KAROO WILD Safaris]

A lot has been said of South Africa’s high fenced properties and reserves. In reality however, only a small fraction of SA’s total privately owned properties are fenced. I’m interested to know what the perception is of the animal numbers in South Africa in the low fenced areas (ie outside of private fenced properties, parks and national parks. How would the total numbers of animals compare to the total number of animals in low fenced areas and un-fenced areas of other Southern African countries (Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe, Mozambique and Zambia). And what would the perception of the distribution be like. More evenly distributed throughout the country or confined to certain areas in relation to the other countries mentioned.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

By and large I have a tremendous love for Colombia. My wife's family are the absolute best of people. I think it's like anything else really. You can find yourself wandering into trouble wherever you go.

For the average tourist visiting Medellin, Cartegna, Bogota, Cali, etc., you would have to try very, very hard to find yourself where we were lol

Literally, counting the minutes until we depart!

Next time y’all are here reach out to me and come visit us en la zona cafetera. I know the areas you are talking about and probably know Colombia better than most Colombians.

You are going to hunt with Kuche? PM me if you have any questions.

safe travels

 

[0002S]

Are we still arguing about how high the fence is and whether or not my Kudu relaxing on his bush couch, with coffee, is "rangy" enough to shoot?

 

[Frederik]

Are we still arguing about how high the fence is and whether or not my Kudu relaxing on his bush couch, with coffee, is "rangy" enough to shoot?

So it will argued over the next 100 + years also always.

To summarize:
You can have a very good hunting experience in any country do your homework and tell the Outfitter/PH what you expect of the hunt.
Its your money and time if you are happy how the hunt was conducted take that back home and relive it with photos or trophies in years to come.

 

[NDWoods]

I have a great deal of respect for your post, Gerry. It is a great sign of a man's character to share his thoughts in company where it may not be the popular view.
It was not that long ago that I joined here looking for information on booking my first safari, and the consistency of guidance on SA for maybe first time, or if that is what you can afford, was weighing heavily on me.
I saw an offer in SA posted, checked with a couple of experienced guys who said they were always willing to help, and was told it really appeared to be a solid hunt. The PH feedback on this site was consistently positive, and I had an amazing hunt. Decision made, even on my arrival, I was still silently praying I did not get up to a fence and see hand fed animals with tags in their ears.
I love your perspective and experience of just because it is in a "wild" country does not mean it will be a better or wilder hunt. Your honesty I think will continue to help others in their decisions by reinforcing how key research, referrals, and communication with the PH on what your expectations are. Without this site, I would probably still be trying to make a decision on where to go and who to go with.

 

[PhotoCollector73]

Last August as we were tracking some dugga boys about 10km into the jess we encountered lion tracks on top of the buffalo tracks (realized why they were super vigilant). You are not going to see that at a fenced RSA farm.

Honestly, a lot (and I do mean A LOT) of your comments on this forum in regards to hunting 'wild Africa' or SA (because somehow the latter just doesn't count in your opinion) come across as pompous, arrogant, and downright snobbish. Yes, wild hunting DOES exist in South Africa. You just need to know where to find it as it admittedly isn't the norm, though that might change in the years to come. Fortunately, with the advent of social media, many more top-quality outfitters are now capable of selling their product on a much larger scale than they would just 15 years ago.

I was once under the impression that wild hunting simply didn't exist in South Africa until I found outfitters such as Coenraad Vermaak (Khamabab Kalahari Reserve), Shumba Safaris (their area in the A.P.N.R. adjacent to Kruger National Park), Chapungu Kambako (Kalahari Oryx Private Game Reserve), Wintershoek (pretty much all of their areas in the Northern Cape), and many more which all do, in fact, offer wild hunting in the country (note that I've never hunted with any of them and am not advertising for them). Now I know you probably think fences are all that distinguish 'wild' from 'put-and-take' but that simply isn't true. The Bubye Valley, Save Valley, and Waterberg Plateau all have some kind of fencing, yet are known for offering truly fair-chase and wild hunting.

Hell, the entire northern region of Botswana has a veterinary fence that cuts it off from the rest of the country, specifically to prevent F.M.D. from the buffalo herds in the north, from crossing over into the cattle herds in the south. While elephants, leopards, eland, and even lions don't have any problem crossing this barrier, many others are simply not capable. So, with those facts presented, does that, to you, mean that Botswana doesn't offer wild hunting?

If any of this came across as rant-like or ugly then I apologise to any who may be reading, and the moderators are more than welcome to remove my comment. But this notion that wild hunting doesn't exist in South Africa, even with all the information available now at our fingertips, is simply baffling.

 

[KAROO WILD Safaris]

Honestly, a lot (and I do mean A LOT) of your comments on this forum in regards to hunting 'wild Africa' or SA (because somehow the latter just doesn't count in your opinion) come across as pompous, arrogant, and downright snobbish. Yes, wild hunting DOES exist in South Africa. You just need to know where to find it as it admittedly isn't the norm, though that might change in the years to come. Fortunately, with the advent of social media, many more top-quality outfitters are now capable of selling their product on a much larger scale than they would just 15 years ago.

I was once under the impression that wild hunting simply didn't exist in South Africa until I found outfitters such as Coenraad Vermaak (Khamabab Kalahari Reserve), Shumba Safaris (their area in the A.P.N.R. adjacent to Kruger National Park), Chapungu Kambako (Kalahari Oryx Private Game Reserve), Wintershoek (pretty much all of their areas in the Northern Cape), and many more which all do, in fact, offer wild hunting in the country (note that I've never hunted with any of them and am not advertising for them). Now I know you probably think fences are all that distinguish 'wild' from 'put-and-take' but that simply isn't true. The Bubye Valley, Save Valley, and Waterberg Plateau all have some kind of fencing, yet are known for offering truly fair-chase and wild hunting.

Hell, the entire northern region of Botswana has a veterinary fence that cuts it off from the rest of the country, specifically to prevent F.M.D. from the buffalo herds in the north, from crossing over into the cattle herds in the south. While elephants, leopards, eland, and even lions don't have any problem crossing this barrier, many others are simply not capable. So, with those facts presented, does that, to you, mean that Botswana doesn't offer wild hunting?

If any of this came across as rant-like or ugly then I apologise to any who may be reading, and the moderators are more than welcome to remove my comment. But this notion that wild hunting doesn't exist in South Africa, even with all the information available now at our fingertips, is simply baffling.

Well said. I'm going to make statement that I can't factually prove - the date simply isn't there because Africa isn't very adept at collecting accurate statistics - but I know it to be true. South Africa has more kudu on low fenced property than any other Southern African country. By a long way