Gun Control - The Debate, Argument Or Whatever ...

[edward]

i think ive said this before,this world was conquered 6 or 7 times as history tells it,millions of people were killed,slaughtered,murdered,etc.not one person was killed with a gun,no bullet holes,but they were all dead,Christ was not killed by a drive by shooting with an ak47 rifle with a 30 round mag,,hammer and nails did the job, so my question is,how does anybody with a brain think that if you could get rid of all the guns in the world that nobody would ever be killed again?that is stupid thinking,as long as this world has two people left their is a potential for one to kill the other.not being chuck norris,or any other martial arts expert,you must forgive me,but ill keep my guns to protect my wife,cats,property and any thing else or any body who i want to protect.thank you,over and out.

 

[sestoppelman]

To the question about arming teachers, I can understand the trepidation, especially when we consider who most teachers in this country now are, snowflake liberals! However I am still for it if they are. What I don't like is telling the bad guys where to go to kill children. Its called a school, because guess what? Schools are "gun free" zones! Yep, that will keep the bad guys out of there, just broadcast that no one is armed. Bad guys love that stuff.

 

[Shawn.54]

To the question about arming teachers, I can understand the trepidation, especially when we consider who most teachers in this country now are, snowflake liberals! However I am still for it if they are. What I don't like is telling the bad guys where to go to kill children. Its called a school, because guess what? Schools are "gun free" zones! Yep, that will keep the bad guys out of there, just broadcast that no one is armed. Bad guys love that stuff.

We are a small rural school after Sandyhook shooting several of our teachers approached the board to volunteer to take training and and carry we are blessed to have to have a very conservative leaning staff.
Shawn

 

[Royal27]

From a friend's FB page. The comment at the bottom is his, but I agree:

Propaganda must always address itself to the broad masses of the people. (...) All propaganda must be presented in a popular form and must fix its intellectual level so as not to be above the heads of the least intellectual of those to whom it is directed. (...) The art of propaganda consists precisely in being able to awaken the imagination of the public through an appeal to their feelings, in finding the appropriate psychological form that will arrest the attention and appeal to the hearts of the national masses. The broad masses of the people are not made up of diplomats or professors of public jurisprudence nor simply of persons who are able to form reasoned judgment in given cases, but a vacillating crowd of human children who are constantly wavering between one idea and another. (...) The great majority of a nation is so feminine in its character and outlook that its thought and conduct are ruled by sentiment rather than by sober reasoning. This sentiment, however, is not complex, but simple and consistent. It is not highly differentiated, but has only the negative and positive notions of love and hatred, right and wrong, truth and falsehood."
Propaganda must not investigate the truth objectively and, in so far as it is favourable to the other side, present it according to the theoretical rules of justice; yet it must present only that aspect of the truth which is favourable to its own side. (...) The receptive powers of the masses are very restricted, and their understanding is feeble. On the other hand, they quickly forget. Such being the case, all effective propaganda must be confined to a few bare essentials and those must be expressed as far as possible in stereotyped formulas. These slogans should be persistently repeated until the very last individual has come to grasp the idea that has been put forward. (...) Every change that is made in the subject of a propagandist message must always emphasize the same conclusion. The leading slogan must of course be illustrated in many ways and from several angles, but in the end one must always return to the assertion of the same formula."
"I will provide a propagandistic casus belli. Its credibility doesn't matter. The victor will not be asked whether he told the truth."[13][14]

~Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

It is crazy how much this applies to those pushing for gun control and pushing for certain ideas in society. It scares me that the same behavior outlined by one of the most evil men in history is being exemplified in American Society. This is quite the red flag

 

[sestoppelman]

We are a small rural school after Sandyhook shooting several of our teachers approached the board to volunteer to take training and and carry we are blessed to have to have a very conservative leaning staff.
Shawn

That is unusual in America today, especially in our institutions of "higher learning", AKA college.

 

[Royal27]

A couple of good articles:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/01/us/armed-teachers-guns-schools.html


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...47dd2df3829_story.html?utm_term=.9aa0def9c6aa

 

[sestoppelman]

Interesting event in LA yesterday. Cops tried to arrest a murder suspect, who fired his gun at them, 7 cops I guess. They returned fire and eventually the suspect was arrested without injury. No one was hit by bullets and the cops fired 65 times. So when I hear people argue about how teachers aren't trained and cant shoot or whatever, I always think about stories like this one. Another a couple of years ago in NY, cops tried to grab a suspect, shootout ensued, many rounds fired. One victim was hit, an innocent bystander, none of NY's finest hit their intended target.

 

[Royal27]

Interesting event in LA yesterday. Cops tried to arrest a murder suspect, who fired his gun at them, 7 cops I guess. They returned fire and eventually the suspect was arrested without injury. No one was hit by bullets and the cops fired 65 times. So when I hear people argue about how teachers aren't trained and cant shoot or whatever, I always think about stories like this one. Another a couple of years ago in NY, cops tried to grab a suspect, shootout ensued, many rounds fired. One victim was hit, an innocent bystander, none of NY's finest hit their intended target.

As @Bullthrower338 would say, it is all about training.

In the article I posted about teachers with guns there is a comparison of a group of teachers being required to shoot 600 rounds per year, while the local police are required to shoot 25. Go figure....

 

[Shawn.54]

A couple of good articles:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/01/us/armed-teachers-guns-schools.html


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...47dd2df3829_story.html?utm_term=.9aa0def9c6aa

Those are two great articles the second really hits the nail on the head. I don’t have a lifetime membership to the NRA but I mostly keep up my yearly dues and I will admit I let it go this past year and have this past week renewed it.
I don’t always agree with them but I don’t disagree enough to not belong.
That being said I don’t believe that belonging is enough anymore I’m just not sure what to do.
I can stand on my soapbox here and preach to the choir like I’m doing now. Or I can get off my duff and do something. Any suggestions here on AH on what.
Maybe we as gun owners could make these companies who pulled out on the NRA aware of how much business they going to loose.
Shawn

 

[Royal27]

Maybe we as gun owners could make these companies who pulled out on the NRA aware of how much business they going to loose.

I think Delta may just be starting to figure it out.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...r-delta-after-airline-cuts-ties-with-nra.html

I don't fly much anymore, but Delta is off the list now. I had some terrible experiences with them last time that didn't help, but this is the last straw for me. There are more ways to get to Joberg than flight 200.

 

[Hogpatrol]

FK Delta. They jacked up the ATL JNB prices 400 bucks. In April, I'm flying SAA to RSA.
Besides, those raggedy ass, crap seat, crap entertainment system, worn out triple sevens aren't worth the money.

 

[sestoppelman]

Hope nobody here is a RSA landowner! Doesn't sound good.

 

[IdaRam]

I think Delta may just be starting to figure it out.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...r-delta-after-airline-cuts-ties-with-nra.html

I don't fly much anymore, but Delta is off the list now. I had some terrible experiences with them last time that didn't help, but this is the last straw for me. There are more ways to get to Joberg than flight 200.

We need more lawmakers like that! People with a spine instead of mealy mouthed, flap with the prevailing breeze jelly fish politicians.
I’m with you Royal, after flying both Delta and Emirates to JoBurg, I’ll take Emirates every time. No comparison. Delta, 2 strikes, I’m done.

 

[Nature Boy]

This whole debate misses the entire point. You aren't going to change anything making the buying age 21, passing stupid laws, etc. They had about 3500 shootings in Chicago last year, got about the 7th toughest gun laws in the USA. Conclusion? The thugs don't care about the laws, ESPECIALLY when you only slap them on the hand when they get caught. The liberals who want these laws WILL NOT punish the illegal owners because they had "tough childhoods", lmao. Okay then. You can't stop crazies and you are not going to take away all guns so you better figure out something else.

 

[meigsbucks]

When a drunk driver kills a person, we don't blame the car or the alcohol, we blame the person. When a person is stabbed to death, we don't scream "ban knives"; we blame the person. But, when a person is shot to death, the gun is the first thing people clamor to ban.
Arming teachers... Get them some additional training and they can at the very least protect their classroom. If they feel that can confront the attacker, fine. Then they have the means to do it. Just another layer of defense.

 

[Hogpatrol]

This whole debate misses the entire point. You aren't going to change anything making the buying age 21, passing stupid laws, etc. They had about 3500 shootings in Chicago last year, got about the 7th toughest gun laws in the USA. Conclusion? The thugs don't care about the laws, ESPECIALLY when you only slap them on the hand when they get caught. The liberals who want these laws WILL NOT punish the illegal owners because they had "tough childhoods", lmao. Okay then. You can't stop crazies and you are not going to take away all guns so you better figure out something else.

In my state, the DAs plea bargain away gun charges like they were candy canes at Christmas time.

 

[stug]

Here in NZ you can own a rifle from 16 (drivers licence at 16, drink and vote at 18). To get your firearms licence you need to attend a 2 hour lecture on firearm safety and then pass a 30 question multi-answer question. There are 7 questions you cannot get wrong. Someone from the NZ Police will come to your home and interview you about your reason for owning a firearm and to see if you are suitable to own a firearm. You also have to supply the names of two referees to support your application. They also have to have a personal interview with the NZ Police about your suitability to own a firearm. You also have to have suitable security in the house to store the firearm.
Your licence lasts for 10 years and then needs to be re-newed in a similar process.
To own a handgun is a lot stricter. You must belong to a shooting club, and the handgun can only be used at a shooting club.
We have two classes of semi-automatic firearms. "Normal" semi-autos, and "Military style Semi-Autos". This difference was bought in after a mass shooting in the 90's.
A "normal" semi-auto magazine can hold no more than 7 rounds, cannot have a free standing pistol group, bayonet lug or flash suppressor. You need a special licence and reason to own a "military style semi -auto" but they can be used anywhere, although only you are allowed to shoot your rifle.
So far in NZ we have had two mass shootings, the one inthe 90's and an earlier one in the 40's/50's. We have never had a school shooting.

 

[Hogpatrol]

@stug, NZ has less than 5 million people. We have 325 million plus or 65 more times the amount. We have a drug problem, a racial problem, a financial inequality problem, a jobs problem and a family breakdown problem. I don't know about NZ but as a result of these issues, we have a lot more dysfunctional people on the streets.

 

[stug]

Yep we have all those problems as well. Gangs/criminals have reasonably easy access to firearms, but not many robberies result in shootings. Most violent robberies are with bats, knives etc.
our drug problem is methanphetamine and the organised crime that goes with that. The equality gap in NZ is large and getting larger.
But there seems to be something in the NZ psyche where mass shootings are not the answer/option.
I am a school teacher in a rural high school of 800 students, we have regular lockdown drills etc. I would hate to see NZ get to position where arming teachers or having armed guards was seen as the best option that is real ambulance at the bottom if the hill stuff.
Stopping mass shootings in any country is only going to be solved by the whole society looking at the root cause of what made the individual think this was the best option. It will be a generational change. Taking guns away, arming teachers won't stop it happening. Look at Europe where the car or truck has become the weapon used for mass carnage.

 

[Nyati]

Now, just a question for discussion, and I am not going to refer to gun laws in the US or any other country, this is just a general idea.

It seems that we all agree that guns are not the problema, and I mean any type of guns.

The problem is the shooter, right ¿

So, would the solution be that those that are likely to use the guns in a harmful manner are prevented to acquire guns in any way. Those could be people with

A criminal record

A mental illness

Known and proven agressive behaviour

Drug users

Others I´m forgetting.....