Gun Control - The Debate, Argument Or Whatever ...

[Brent in Az]

This shooting was a system failure. The FBI, as well as the local authorities, knew this kid was a problem child. But in typical government fashion, they try and close the barn door after the cows have already run off.

 

[Brent in Az]

Dick's sporting goods, just announced, that they will no longer carry AR-15's.

 

[Shawn.54]

Dick's sporting goods, just announced, that they will no longer carry AR-15's.

I’ll have to check on Field and Stream store and see if they are still carrying them (owned by Dick’s) last time I was in there they had a pile of AR stuff and Rifles also.
Shawn

 

[Shawn.54]

Maybe they will stop at Dick’s to appease anti’s and save face and still have them at F&S
Shawn

 

[Tom Hawk]

I think that the mental drugs use to fix these problems are part of the problem if not most of it.
I have a friend who lost her husband at 40 and her Dr gave her happy pills to help her cope with it. She found someone else 2years later who made her get off the drugs today she freely admits that for a little over 2 years she floated through life not knowing what was real and what wasn’t.
Now give that crap to someone who is unstable and set them in front of a video game and see if they can tell the difference.
Shawn

I’m starting to think his alligator story (He beloved the children will alligators) might be true

 

[Shawn.54]

This shooting was a system failure. The FBI, as well as the local authorities, knew this kid was a problem child. But in typical government fashion, they try and close the barn door after the cows have already run off.

The guy called the sheriff and reported himself.
Shawn

 

[Royal27]

This shooting was a system failure. The FBI, as well as the local authorities, knew this kid was a problem child. But in typical government fashion, they try and close the barn door after the cows have already run off.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/02/exposing_the_deep_rot_in_the_deep_state.html

Exposing the Deep Rot in the Deep State

Once again, the president has pried behind the stucco of the Deep State's institutional edifice and shown that the pillars are termite-ridden. Over at Instapundit, law professor Glenn Reynolds said it most succinctly:

FL Shooting Survivor Colton Haab: CNN Told Me I Needed To "Stick To The Script"; Entire Town Hall Scripted. ​

Trump's luck is pretty amazing. The entire media sets up a week-long hatefest aimed at the NRA, culminating in that shameful fake "Town Hall," and then the very next day it comes out that there was a police officer there who was too cowardly to do anything, and Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel, who was shaming and lecturing gun owners the night before, must have known it while he was up there on stage.

Trump's superpower is his ability, just by existing, to bring out the deep and pervasive rot in America's institutions and the people who run them.​

In fact, there were four armed deputies at the Parkland, Florida high school, none of whom entered to intervene when the shooting occurred. Heroes like the JROTC students and the coach gave up their lives to protect others, while four armed cops did nothing to end the carnage. At least one witness said he saw the first deputy (Scot Peterson), who has since resigned, hiding behind a stairwell in a separate building while talking on his phone radio during the four to six minutes the shootings occurred, and it is likely he was talking to his superiors at the time. It defies belief that four deputies at the scene did nothing and that their headquarters were not informed and fully aware that the men were not going in to help.


After Columbine, the FBI training and tactical advice to local law enforcement officials was not to wait for a SWAT or tactical team to show up, but to immediately engage and disarm the shooter. On Facebook, Philip Smith notes, citing various FBI planning guides:

Lessons learned from this tragedy included the need for all police officers to be properly trained, equipped and empowered to immediately intervene in an active shooter situation to stop the ongoing violence regardless of their assignment.​

Modern day law enforcement training and tactics dictate that the primary objective of the first law enforcement officer(s) on the scene of an active shooter situation is to locate and stop the person or persons believed to be the shooter(s). As law enforcement active shooter training has evolved, there has been a move away from waiting for several officers to arrive and form a "team" prior to searching for the shooter. ​

Today, many agencies and trainers recommend a solo officer entry into an active shooter situation if it is believed the officer on scene can locate, isolate and/or stop the shooter prior to other arriving law enforcement officers. The solo officer entry can be a very dangerous response strategy. However, properly trained and equipped police officers acting alone without the benefit of backup have stopped ongoing active shooter situations, thereby saving lives.​

So how is it that four armed cops remained outside the building and did nothing? For that, you have to go to Sundance on Conservative Treehouse, who, beginning with the Trayvon Martin case, has been keeping an eye on the Broward and Miami-Dade County Police Departments, filing FOIA requests and winkling out a major scandal. In sum, these actors, in order to obtain federal grants under Obama and Eric Holder, who conned governments into thinking that disparate outcomes – that is, more arrests and school expulsions of black kids than white kids – were the result of discrimination, did not discriminate regarding conduct issues. Local governments were rewarded with grants if they kept school arrests down, the cover being "let's stop the pipeline from schools to prisons." Without arrests, there was no record in background checks to keep violent people from having guns. It's that simple: no matter what steps you put into place to prevent such things, if the procedure is corrupted, it won't work. No matter how many armed deputies are at the site, if they are following orders not to intercede, or at least permitted to just stand idly by, they will be useless as protection. And yet the same people who are for disarming law-abiding citizens want to give the very people who are refusing to follow commonsense dictates for our protection more power and us less.

If journalism awards were handed out to those who actually are engaged in journalism, Sundance would be getting one. Here are some of the things he turned up in his hard years long slogging through Broward and Miami-Dade Counties' police practices and operations.

Broward and Miami-Dade Counties' law enforcement departments are deeply political. Scot Peterson was, until he resigned, a school resource officer (SRO). Backed by responses to repeated FOIA requests, Sundance concludes:

The roles of SRO's are political, not law enforcement.​

Here's what people don't understand. When the county policy is intentionally constructed to ignore criminal behavior in schools, the Sheriff and School superintendent cannot rely on "law and order-minded" SROs to carry out the corrupt policy.

The SRO must carry a political hat and be able to intercept behavior, modify the action based on a specific policy, falsify documents, manipulate records etc, and engage in the system with an understanding of the unwritten goals. SROs are given political instructions, NOT, I repeat, NOT given instructions to uphold laws and regulations.

The School Officers are the primary foot soldiers carrying out political policy. Engaging an active shooter on campus is the furthest thing from their skill-set you could imagine.

Security of school students is just not their role. The Broward County SRO is in place to protect the School System "policy."​

While the press is now reporting the many instances where neighbors and others phoned in warnings to the FBI about the shooter and the many visits (39) by the police to his home about disturbances there, Sundance argues, they didn't "miss warning signs"; they ignored them as part of school and police department policies.

Sundance details the many times tips about the shooter were given the department and deliberately ignored.

Even modern technology was jiggered to help the Broward officials carry out their continuing cover-up of student crimes.

Broward County law enforcement (Sheriff Israel), in conjunction with Broward County School Officials (Superintendent Runcie and School Board), have a standing policy to ignore any criminal engagement with High School students.

When the police are hiding current, actual and ongoing unlawful conduct as a matter of standard procedure on a regular basis, what do we expect the police would do with reports of potential unlawful conduct? Of course they would ignore them.

This is not a "mistake" on their part, the 'doing nothing' is part of the standard practice.

♦ Secondly, the 27-minute tape-delay in the CCTV system is not an "accident", "flaw" or "mistake". It is entirely by design.

As a standard Broward and Miami-Dade practice, when school law enforcement need to cover-up or hide behavior, they need time (when that behavior happens) to delete the evidence trail. As such, the school policy – as carried out in practice – is more efficient with a 30-minute tape delay affording the school officer enough time to deal with the situation, then erase the possibility of a recording of the unlawful activity surfacing.

Building in a 30-minute delay on the CCTV system was one of those pesky add-on items that happened a few years ago when the School and Law Enforcement officials established the policy of intentionally not arresting students.

With modern technology it's tough to hide criminal behavior, especially the violent stuff, when it is being recorded. Duh. Ergo the tape-delay was the best-practice workaround.​

Why would they do such a thing? Sundance again documents it: money. State and federal funds were given to districts who improved their statistics, so Broward and Miami-Dade Counties hid the crimes, improved their statistics, and got the money. (They did this earlier as well when the "secret discipline and diversionary program" was in place allowing Trayvon Martin to avoid a criminal record.)

The primary problem was the policy conflicted with laws; and over time the policy began to create outcomes where illegal behavior by students was essentially unchecked by law enforcement. ...

Initially the police were excusing misdemeanor behaviors. However, it didn't take long until felonies, even violent felonies (armed robberies, assaults and worse) were being excused.​

In time, the situation got so bad that to keep lowering their statistics, they were hiding evidence and failing to recover stolen merchandise because to return it would be to admit that the stuff was the fruit of criminal activity.

Criminal gangs soon realized that the way to avoid arrest was to recruit students to carry out their actions, and they also realized that when the quota for arrests near the end of the month was reached was the best time to get away with crimes.

The system had in a short time become totally corrupted, and the SROs were the "most corrupt." The local media cooperated in covering it all up, and the cops who wanted to do their jobs were demoralized and deprived of the benefits the corrupt ones got, including free housing close to the schools to which they were assigned.

Indeed, Broward County sheriff Scott Israel used the public funds he got by faking crime statistics and ignoring crimes to hire political supporters for his re-election campaign.

This is the story worth telling, not the scripted anti-gun pap CNN offered up or the ten-minute hate town hall designed to play on your emotions while ignoring the truth. But only one blogger, Sundance, did the work to expose it.

The rest of the MSM seem to be fine with jeopardizing students' lives, enabling criminals, and using public funds to advance the fortunes of Democrat candidates who allowed this tragedy to occur. As the press in South Florida stinks, do me a favor – pass this one to friends and relatives who live there and who have elected to Congress these avatars of a one-party system: Alcee Hastings, Ted Deutch, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, and Frederica Wilson.

 

[MAdcox]

Growing up in a small, ranching community in Oklahoma, a lot of the vehicles in the parking lot had guns in them- some visible. Everyone knew it. A friend of mine and
I went coyote hunting some mornings before basketball practice. His truck had a busted window and we told our coach we didn't want to leave our guns in the truck. He said, "put'em in your locker, but leave the ammo outside." There was never a shooting at that school. We all had guns, we were raised on how to use and respect them. We also opened every school day with a prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance.
My 7 year old, 1st grade son, came home from school last week asking about an Xbox game called "grandpa Otto". He didn't know what it was but he didn't think it sounded likea good game because you were supposed to shoot cops for fun. Finally figured out he was talking about Grand Theft Auto- a game were you kill cops, steal cars, hire prostitutes and apparently get bonus points for kicking them out of the car you have stolen and running them over so you don't have to pay them. And my son's 7 year old class mates are playing this at home. I looked at the game and it is age restricted- meaning mom or dad had to buy it for them.
We take God out of the school, expose our kids to these type of games (for untold hours a day) and violent TV, and then blame the gun for school shootings. This is the height of insanity. Unfortunately in a lot of cases it isn't really insanity, it is a knowing, uncaring push for a political agenda- not a desire to actually fix a problem and protect our children.
And while I know there will be teachers who do not wish to carry, I also have spoken to many in my child's school who are mad because they are not allowed to even though they are licensed. I am not a cop, not military, and am quite busy with my day job and running our small ranch. But I damn sure took the time to get training and licensing to carry in order to protect my family. And I am betting there are many teachers who would do the same. It doesn't have to be many- 5, 10, 20% would be a deterrent to these cowards who attack schools knowing they won't have to face return fire.

 

[cpr0312]

Growing up in a small, ranching community in Oklahoma, a lot of the vehicles in the parking lot had guns in them- some visible. Everyone knew it. A friend of mine and
I went coyote hunting some mornings before basketball practice. His truck had a busted window and we told our coach we didn't want to leave our guns in the truck. He said, "put'em in your locker, but leave the ammo outside." There was never a shooting at that school. We all had guns, we were raised on how to use and respect them. We also opened every school day with a prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance.
My 7 year old, 1st grade son, came home from school last week asking about an Xbox game called "grandpa Otto". He didn't know what it was but he didn't think it sounded likea good game because you were supposed to shoot cops for fun. Finally figured out he was talking about Grand Theft Auto- a game were you kill cops, steal cars, hire prostitutes and apparently get bonus points for kicking them out of the car you have stolen and running them over so you don't have to pay them. And my son's 7 year old class mates are playing this at home. I looked at the game and it is age restricted- meaning mom or dad had to buy it for them.
We take God out of the school, expose our kids to these type of games (for untold hours a day) and violent TV, and then blame the gun for school shootings. This is the height of insanity. Unfortunately in a lot of cases it isn't really insanity, it is a knowing, uncaring push for a political agenda- not a desire to actually fix a problem and protect our children.
And while I know there will be teachers who do not wish to carry, I also have spoken to many in my child's school who are mad because they are not allowed to even though they are licensed. I am not a cop, not military, and am quite busy with my day job and running our small ranch. But I damn sure took the time to get training and licensing to carry in order to protect my family. And I am betting there are many teachers who would do the same. It doesn't have to be many- 5, 10, 20% would be a deterrent to these cowards who attack schools knowing they won't have to face return fire.

Spot on!

 

[ScottG]

That is what a lot of this is. Kids not knowing how to deal with things.

My father was no mechanic. But I built fence picked up hay worked cattle. Mowed fed the animals .we were thought work ethics another thing that is missing. If you don't lose you don't get the passion to get better.

 

[charleslabounty]

Dick's sporting goods, just announced, that they will no longer carry AR-15's.

Dick’s also announced “no sales of firearms to anyone under the age of 21”.
How will that play with the ACLU ......
I think them and the courts destroyed a family bakery business for refusing to serve at a gay wedding. I think they would bake the wedding cake but refused to serve at the wedding reception, if I remember correctly.

So can a public bar decide to only serve people over the age of 25. “?”

 

[Bullthrower338]

Dick’s also announced “no sales of firearms to anyone under the age of 21”.
How will that play with the ACLU ......
I think them and the courts destroyed a family bakery business for refusing to serve at a gay wedding. I think they would bake the wedding cake but refused to serve at the wedding reception, if I remember correctly.

So can a public bar decide to only serve people over the age of 25. “?”

Thank God! That will solve the problem! Just like raising the drinking age to 21 eliminated under age drinking!
Open Container law stopped drinking and driving!
Making prostitution illegal stopped promiscuity and put hookers out of business!

 

[BRICKBURN]

I sincerely hope someone leads and starts to focus on a solution and stops the .

......... Kids not knowing how to deal with things. .....

Kids or Adults not knowing how to deal with things, _________________


I'll just offer a couple of options to end the sentence: (Your pick)
1. Properly,
2. Effectively,
3.Confidently,
4. Capably,
5. Appropriately,
6. Accurately,
7. Suitably,
8. Correctly,
9. etc.




This image always stuck with me from school. It's an interesting social pattern.

Crime riddled London and what decent people had to do just to walk down the street to stave off stabbing and the garrote.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Dick’s also announced “no sales of firearms to anyone under the age of 21”.
How will that play with the ACLU ......
I think them and the courts destroyed a family bakery business for refusing to serve at a gay wedding. I think they would bake the wedding cake but refused to serve at the wedding reception, if I remember correctly.

So can a public bar decide to only serve people over the age of 25. “?”

I purchased a shotgun at Dick's and waited over a week for it to clear. They would not release it after the three day holding period. Said it was corporate policy and wouldn't give it to me until the feds called back

Other than that. to the best of my knowledge, Dick's stopped selling ARs after Newtown.

 

[Tom Hawk]

I purchased a shotgun at Dick's and waited over a week for it to clear. They would not release it after the three day holding period. Said it was corporate policy and wouldn't give it to me until the feds called back

Other than that. to the best of my knowledge, Dick's stopped selling ARs after Newtown.

This is why you buy them from your local gun shop

 

[Hogpatrol]

This is why you buy them from your local gun shop

This was over ten years ago and other than filling up a CO2 cylinder, they don't see a nickle of my disposable income.

 

[Shawn.54]

Lets put this into perspective any life lost is 1 to many but look what happens in a shooting like this.
Automatically it’s the guns fault and the NRA.
When someone dies in a car crash we don’t blame AAA we don’t blame car maker.
Usually it is the driver speeding texting or not paying attention.
A lot more people die in car crashes than school shootings.
Hell more people die in Chicago a month than school shootings in a year and they have some of the strictest gun laws on the books.
If what I read about dollars for school funding to reduce crime is true then That makes it worse overlook crime for money.
Which is easier to do stop crime or pretend it doesn’t happen.
Then these punks realize there is no punishment for crime it happens more.
And when crime is overlooked it doesn’t make it into the records that are used in a back round check.
It seems to me that the people who built the bomb so to speak are the ones who crying the loudest that it’s legal gun owners and the NRA who did it.
Liberals have good intentions they just don’t get the results they want.
Shawn

 

[Hogpatrol]

I like Mike Tyson's quote "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth". The Florida school administrators, police, FBI and "guard" had a plan, a poor one, and the kids got punched in the mouth. Failure on so many levels, it's mind boggling.

 

[lwaters]

I'm 67 never been divorced. I've seen a lot over my lifetime with family and friends. It is quite common the kids are used as weapons. Seen some really crazy stuff being pulled by some of these parents. Now the new deal is just have a baby and don't even bother with marriage. I guess they think the taxpayer should pay for their screwing. Future don't look to good. Oh well I've had a pretty good life.

 

[Mr. 16 gauge]

IIRC, didn't Dick's pulled their AR15s off the shelf shortly after the Sandy Hook shooting, saying they wouldn't sell them?........at that time, I decided I would no longer buy anything from Dicks. Not so much because of their decision not to sell, but other reasons (most notably very poor customer service). The other big box stores are not much better; I tried to look at a derringer at Dunhams, and the refused to take the cable lock off the gun (I wanted to see how it closed, how well the lock up was, etc.). The sales woman didn't appear to knowledgeable about firearms, and told me it was "corporate policy", so I opted not to buy......and I won't buy a firearm there anymore. I think a lot of this is nothing more than pandering, as they want the 'soccer moms' to shop there to buy their kids supplies for little league, school, etc.

So have at it......I think it wiser to go to a "mom and pop" gun shop for a firearm; they (and many other smaller businesses) are closing their doors because they cannot compete with the big chain stores, and they need to feed their families, too. I much rather go there and get great customer service and pay a little more than have someone who was stocking bicycles an hour ago try and figure out how to fill out the proper forms necessary to appease the govt.

The Dicks near me have really scaled down the size of their hunting/fishing dept, yet increased the size of their stores............I think the whole "no AR15 sales" is nothing more than a sales gimmick and pandering.
Just my 2 cents............after taxes!