COVID vaccination required by Safari Company or not, your suggestion

[Jfet]

Jfet,
i read a paper the other day that said a child that was vaccinated was more likely to die from the flu than covid. another report i heard on the radio stated that children are at such a low risk from this vaccine that they were more likely to die from the side effects of the vaccine than the disease itself.

regardless, to those that get the vaccine (and this is a decision that is valid for elderly or vulnerable people) you are at very little risk from those that choose NOT to get it. i heard the other day that this is now a disease that only kills unvaccinated people. so, they are the only ones at true risk from the wuhan virus. and it is their choice.

regarding choice, should you be MANDATED to worship at a government church? (so as to not be a dissident) should you be MANDATED to only use so much gasoline in your vehicle? (to help save the planet) should you be MANDATED to be surgically sterilized at age 30 (to prevent overpopulation in the world) should you be MANDATED.....for anything in america?

just wondering, what freedoms people will actually be willing to give up, to be protected from a virus that can be pretty easily treated (hydroxchoroquine/ivermectin)

What I am pointing out is that we do mandate vaccination we have done it for years. Will we mandate this vaccination I don’t know? I hope we don’t.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

The eight people at the factory who got covid resulted in 80 lost people-days. If this were to go on, we would lose the company, most definitely. No mere jobs for anyone, a massive loss all round. So no, there is more to this decision than personal choice - when that choice impacts so many so heavily. I am not in the control vs no control argument, I just want us all to survive, and that means economically too. Whatever helps that happen I am for.

 

[Jfet]

You are allowed to opt out of those mandatory vaccines.

Yes, you are correct. Below is the description for exemption in schools in Texas.

Exemptions​

Texas law allows (a) physicians to write medical exemption statements which clearly state a medical reason exists and the person cannot receive specific vaccines, and (b) parents/guardians to choose an exemption from immunization requirements for reasons of conscience, including a religious belief. The law does not allow parents/guardians to elect an exemption simply because of inconvenience (for example, a record is lost or incomplete and it is too much trouble to go to a physician or clinic to correct the problem). Schools should maintain an up-to-date list of students with exemptions, so they may be excluded in times of emergency or epidemic declared by the commissioner of public health.

Instructions for requesting the official exemption affidavit that must be signed by parents/guardians choosing the exemption for reasons of conscience, including a religious belief, can be found on the Exemption Information page of this website. Original Exemption Affidavit must be completed and submitted to the school.

For children claiming medical exemptions, a written statement by the physician must be submitted to the school. Unless it is written in the statement that a lifelong condition exists, the exemption statement is valid for only one year from the date signed by the physician. More information regarding medical exemptions can be found on the Exemption Information page of this website. Original Exemption Affidavit must be completed and submitted to the school.

 

[sestoppelman]

The point is we mandate vaccinations already. We’ve been doing it for decades. All of those vaccines that are required by the state of Texas were brand new technology at one time. Yes, people contracted polio from the original vaccine. I bet there were people who were skeptical then. So comparing this to Nazi Germany is extreme.

I did not mention Nazi Germany anywhere and not in my post quoting yours.

 

[1dirthawker]

What I am pointing out is that we do mandate vaccination we have done it for years. Will we mandate this vaccination I don’t know? I hope we don’t.

yeah, me too.

i was a fireman for 20 years, just retired about a year ago. we were not mandated to get a flu shot or other shots/treatments at work, and we contacted sick people every day. my concern about any mandate by the government is, at what point will the mandates stop? when will the unvaxed, religious, critical, patriots, etc, become the enemy of the state?

thank china for this disease. and dr fouchi and his cohorts helped PAY for the gain of function that this virus has that makes it more transmissible. i would rather have these players put in jail and held accountable than take an experimental vaccine that the companies that make them wont stand behind.

if a individual wants to take the vaccine, have seen the risks and decided its worth it, then i say more power to you. but to require me to take it, especially when it is still experimental and un approved yet for a virus that i think i already got, naaaah, i'm gonna pass.

 

[375Fox]

The eight people at the factory who got covid resulted in 80 lost people-days. If this were to go on, we would lose the company, most definitely. No mere jobs for anyone, a massive loss all round. So no, there is more to this decision than personal choice - when that choice impacts so many so heavily. I am not in the control vs no control argument, I just want us all to survive, and that means economically too. Whatever helps that happen I am for.

I really like your two very logical posts. I keep being amazed that this is always missing from the vaccine discussion. I got my vaccine in part to reduce my risk of losing thousands by not attending work and also reduce my risk of serious illness in a foreign country. I had practical reasons to get it.

 

[Jfet]

I did not mention Nazi Germany anywhere and not in my post quoting yours.

You are correct. You did not mention Nazi German. It was mentioned in another post on this thread. I should have quoted it. My apologies.

 

[VonJager]

I definitely would. In fact I would feel uncomfortable with a company that wasn't vaccinated. Let me explain why:
I and my wife are vaccinated with Sinopharm. We went to South Africa and whilst there the third wave hit. All in all we were in close proximity with four people who tested positive, one being my daughter - we were in the same car with her all day. In all eight people from our staff of thirty six at the Johannesburg company got it, we were in contact with all of them.
We didn't contract covid.
I managed to get four of the staff up to Harare to get Sinovac. None of them has contracted covid.
But here is the real clincher - we got all of the Harare branch staff vaccinated in May - not one has contracted covid.
Statistically therefore a quarter of the SA branch got it, all unvaccinated, and in our vaccinated sample group not a single case.

How many died?

It’s the modern plague!!!! How many died of Covid?

 

[375Fox]

How many died?

It’s the modern plague!!!! How many died of Covid?

So you’re ok shutting down businesses?

The only real facts we know about covid are governments will take extreme actions on what we may consider small. Your personal opinions and selective facts to support not getting vaccinated don’t change this.

 

[Ddsreese]

Personally, as someone who intends to Safari in the future, I would NOT use someone who requires the shot for their clients

 

[Mountaineer]

I would hunt with you if you require vaccinations. I may even choose you over others that do not require it. I hunted Africa this year while not vaccinated. I have health insurance from my employer and would not pay a cent for Covid related sickness. The camp I was in my PH and staff were vaccinated. He was proud of the fact he could get his staff vaccinated. My view now is he cares about his staff and if he didn’t he probably will not care about you. I stopped reading material and started talking to nurses, chemists etc. it’s a statistical equation. Some will beat the odds others will not. I am now choosing to be with the 95% odds that I will not be admitted to the hospital. I’m tough enough to take the sniffles. I have 3 coworkers in the hospital today. Although they all had been exposed at different times over the last year just now they are positive.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

How many died?

It’s the modern plague!!!! How many died of Covid?

One of the young guys an work who had covid, his father got it whilst he was down and the father died. Our engineering supplier, really nice guy called Hilton, he was dropping off a delivery on a Thursday and I said hello, on Monday he was dead. His daughter is going to try to carry on. My good friend of 40 years died of it last week, he was cremated yesterday.
So unfortunately quite a few in our circle. None of these folks were vaccinated.

 

[Jfet]

Would you hunt with a Safari Company that required Covid vaccination for all hunters and staff?

After my wife and I having a bad case of Covid we had our entire staff to have Covid Vaccinations. Here is my question, should Safari Companies require all visiting hunters to have had full vaccination for Covid? Believe me I believe in personal rights as much as anyone, but I am asking for everyones opinion.

5 pages into a pleasant conversation today, my suggestion would be to vaccinate your staff. Based on the number of staff you have I would either pay the entire cost or part of the cost. If you have hundreds of people working for you, I am not sure how that would work. Control what you can and try to protect your people without destroying your business.
This thread is a prime example of the increased difficulties that the hunting industry has to deal with. The outfitters and PH’s I work with I consider friends and family. I want to protect them, too.

 

[sestoppelman]

You are correct. You did not mention Nazi German. It was mentioned in another post on this thread. I should have quoted it. My apologies.

No worries! If thats the biggest boo boo you make today, you are ahead of the game!

 

[Jfet]

No worries! If thats the biggest boo boo you make today, you are ahead of the game!

Good because I just got a little to close to my wife’s new rose bushes with the weed eater.

 

[R.M.C.]

Currently the vaccines are saying they are any where from 85% to 95% effective. I was told when I got a typhoid vaccination for a future trip that it was 92% effective. If a COVID vaccine is 90% effective then out of a million people a 100,000 people will develop the disease. With today’s fear news you will hear about everyone of them. However, if you have a 90% chance of winning a hunt of a life time I bet you buy the raffle ticket.

Doesn't sound like a "90% chance of winning a hunt". Sounds like 10% chance of a medical issue stemming from a covid vaccination. Gonna be hard to sway me considering I know people who happen to fall in the 10% of unlucky vaccinated people. If I live thru the vaccine and the long flight, I didn't win anything, I still have to foot the bill for my hunt of a lifetime.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Would you hunt with a Safari Company that required Covid vaccination for all hunters and staff?

After my wife and I having a bad case of Covid we had our entire staff to have Covid Vaccinations. Here is my question, should Safari Companies require all visiting hunters to have had full vaccination for Covid? Believe me I believe in personal rights as much as anyone, but I am asking for everyones opinion.

@Tokoloshe Safars
I personally don't think it's to much to ask that clients be vaccinated. You are trying to provide a safe environment for a client to come to the least that could do is provide a safe client.
I doe believe people have the right to NOT be vaccinated but that is their choice.
In Australia at the moment a lot of employers are saying no vac no job and when we get out of our current lock down they are talking of a vaccine passport so people can go to sporting events, concert's and travel overseas.
We are living in a brave new world that is rapidly changing. I chose to get vaccinated not to protect me but to protect my family and friend's.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

No. I would not. Currently, my son's stepmother is on a vent in ICU with COVID and it is not looking good at all for her. She has been "fully vaccinated". I personally do not support any organization of any sort that would force a covid shot.

@Just Gina
Sorry to hear about your sons stepmother I sincerely pray that she recovers. Yes you can still get sick even after 2 vaccinations but it is supposed to limit the effect. Unfortunately we are caught between a rock and a hard place at the moment.
Bob

 

[One Day...]

A few thoughts...

"I know someone who got the vaccine and is sick". So what? What part of 95% effectiveness is hard to understand? As of today ~165 million Americans have been fully vaccinated. 5% of these will possibly still get COVID, hopefully in a milder form. Expect 8.25 million possible "I know someone who got the vaccine and is sick" cases.

"It is not a vaccine because it uses never used before mRNA technology". So what? Does medicine continuous improvement arbitrarily stop in 2020? If any medical treatment that was never used before is illegitimate, I guess that all recent cancer drugs, stem cells therapy, each year annual flue shot cocktail, etc. etc. are off the table too...

"I will not be forced to receive a vaccine". Well, before going to Africa the first time did you get, or verified you got as a kid going to school, Polio, Measles-mumps-rubella (MMR), Tetanus-diphtheria-pertussis (TDaP), chickenpox Shingrix, typhoid Vivotif or Typhoid VI, hepatitis A & B Twinrix vaccines? Did you take Malarone when going in malaria areas? As an aging adult, did you consider Pneumococcal and Meningococcal vaccines? Did you receive an annual flue shot over the last few years? Did you advise your kids to get your grandkids the HPV vaccine? If you did not, you should really think about all this. I you did, what is different about COVID?

Etc. etc. etc.

It seems to me that the real differences about COVID are threefold:

1) It turns out that COVID is nowhere near as lethal as originally feared. If we were talking about Cholera with a 25-50% mortality rate, I reckon that that there would not be much noise about getting vaccinated ASAP. Apparently the mortality rate with COVID in the US is 1.7% overall, and concentrated in very limited segments of the population (elderlies and pre-conditions). Note that this is the mortality rate WITH COVID, not FROM COVID. Enter the jokes about "secondary cause of death: head crash with an 18 wheeler at 95 mph"...

2) COVID as been weaponized as a political football. 'nough said about this one, but to say that it poisoned the well...

3) Admittedly, some of the Government officials up to and including Presidents under various administrations have said some pretty stupid and mutually contradicting things about it. 'nough said about this one too, but to say that this did not help...

Like many on this forum I received so many vaccines for so many things (mandatory in France to go to school; mandatory in the French Army which sustains many deployments all over the place in Africa including the most insalubrious...), etc. so I did not think too hard about COVID. Although I had COVID in 2020 - turned out to be no worse than getting a bad case of the flue for me - I did get vaccinated 6 months ago because I expected that it could become a GO/NO GO issue for my hunt in Zimbabwe coming in 2 weeks.

Would I personally hunt with Lon and Tokoloshe Safaris? Heck yes! But I would also respect those who would not, even though I would not necessarily share their logic

 

[VonJager]

I have the standard "dead or inert" virus vaccines. I have the yellow fever vaccine, I keep up with tetanus boosters.

I do not get the flu shot, and won't be getting the COVID shot. IF the "new technology" was proven safe and effective, that might be another story, but so far it has yet to be proven safe or effective and it should not have been emergency approved based on the fact other medications work for COVID. YMMV.