COVID vaccination required by Safari Company or not, your suggestion

[sestoppelman]

View attachment 417373

I think this one shows it uses a small bit of the virus?

Maybe with the AZ but I think the others do not use live Covid virus at all relying on stuffing these spike proteins in our blood, which sadly there is no way to know the long term effects and we wont know for some time.
I wont say it changes our DNA as some do, but it does apparently change the genetic code to train our cells to react to Covid. Its a permanent change too.
Covid sounds really gnarly, but so do the "vaccines" that are supposed to work and already proven to not do as promised.
Oh they work, sort of. But as the article points out, the virus continues to mutate and the flavor of the week is soon to be Lambda I read today. And then it will be something else, and then another.

 

[machinistbutler]

Probably wind up like the flu where every year they guess what variants will hit.

Some get the shot , some don't.

Big pharma make big money regardless.

 

[JGRaider]

Skip to the 15 minute mark and listen to about the 21 minute mark. I'd challenge anyone to argue with this dude..........

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

@Tokoloshe Safaris

Hi Lon,

Well, wow. Thanks for the kind words regarding respecting my opinion. Firestorm, indeed, however that is the current situation in the world right now, unfortunately.

Being that I am a Registered Nurse and not an outfitter or PH, I am not sure I am qualified to answer this question. Since you asked how *I* would handle this hypothetical situation, I shall give you my opinion.

My first question is: Is/was there a policy in place requiring that everyone at camp (PH, staff, hunters, visitors, etc.) have a covid shot that was clearly laid out and communicated prior to booking? If such a policy is in place, then Non-Covid Shot (NCS) hunter clearly violated the outfitters policy and it is his loss. He is excluded.

If there is no such policy in place, and Covid Shot (CS) hunter does not want to hunt with NCS, then he can either 1) go home. 2) sit at camp until NCS gets his buffalo and then go out after. If all the hunt is used up on NCS hunter, well, he excluded himself by refusing to go along.

From the perspective of a hunter, I would not book a 2 on 1 hunt with an unknown person, because even if you eliminate covid from the situation, too many variables on potential issues come to my mind.

And that is my opinion to your hypothetical situation, Good Sir.

Gina

Hi Gina,

My wife and I just returned from camp during the 3 days we were gone several Covid related events have taken place. 1. On Saturday my wife uncle fell ill with Covid & entered the hospital in Harare, died Sunday. 2. One of my workers, who normally does not work safaris has fallen ill with Covid. 3. One of our hunting areas that we had planned on hunting leopard later in the year has just became a Covid hot spot, we will not be hunting that area until further notice.

Do I now require the portion of my staff that comes in contact with clients to be vaccinated? NO, they all did it on their own, I just provided the transportation.

A couple of further comments 1. We would never put to strangers in a 2x1 situation. I don't even like doing it with friends quite often things go south. 2. This was never meant to be a political or personal rights issue. Simply, would this be a good or bad company policy. I guess this is how civil wars start.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

@Tokoloshe Safaris

Hi Lon,

Well, wow. Thanks for the kind words regarding respecting my opinion. Firestorm, indeed, however that is the current situation in the world right now, unfortunately.

Being that I am a Registered Nurse and not an outfitter or PH, I am not sure I am qualified to answer this question. Since you asked how *I* would handle this hypothetical situation, I shall give you my opinion.

My first question is: Is/was there a policy in place requiring that everyone at camp (PH, staff, hunters, visitors, etc.) have a covid shot that was clearly laid out and communicated prior to booking? If such a policy is in place, then Non-Covid Shot (NCS) hunter clearly violated the outfitters policy and it is his loss. He is excluded.

If there is no such policy in place, and Covid Shot (CS) hunter does not want to hunt with NCS, then he can either 1) go home. 2) sit at camp until NCS gets his buffalo and then go out after. If all the hunt is used up on NCS hunter, well, he excluded himself by refusing to go along.

From the perspective of a hunter, I would not book a 2 on 1 hunt with an unknown person, because even if you eliminate covid from the situation, too many variables on potential issues come to my mind.

And that is my opinion to your hypothetical situation, Good Sir.

Gina

Hi Gina,

My wife and I just returned from camp during the 3 days we were gone several Covid related events have taken place. 1. On Saturday my wife uncle fell ill with Covid & entered the hospital in Harare, died Sunday. 2. One of my workers, who normally does not work safaris has fallen ill with Covid. 3. One of our hunting areas that we had planned on hunting leopard later in the year has just became a Covid hot spot, we will not be hunting that area until further notice.

Do I now require the portion of my staff that comes in contact with clients to be vaccinated? NO, they all did it on their own, I just provided the transportation.

A couple of further comments 1. We would never put to strangers in a 2x1 situation. I don't even like doing it with friends quite often things go south. 2. This was never meant to be a political or personal rights issue. Simply, would this be a good or bad company policy. I guess this is how civil wars start.

On the OP, in the absence of specific information in your health and safety requirements, I would suggest the following;

* As an employer, vaccination of your staff is a reasonable means of reducing their risk. They will likely appreciate you taking care of their health given the prevalence of other infectious disease that will make COVID significantly more risky for them.

* As a service provider, I would suggest the terms and conditions to require customers to declare whether they have been vaccinated. This allows you to make decisions about 2 on 1 hunts, preventative measures, whether you want to accept the booking at all etc.

* There isn’t anything wrong with a expressing a strong preference/recommendation for clients to be vaccinated as well as promoting that your staff have been.

* These measures may be taken out of your hands in part, with the likelihood of vaccinations being required for travel. As more information comes to light, there may be a need to clarify a date of last vaccination etc.That is likely to be more a regulatory matter that all will have to meet.

Thank You!

 

[PARA45]

No sir, I would not hunt with a safari company that requires me to have the vacc.

Whatever happened to our HIPAA rights? We don't ask individuals to take a test to see if we are 100% healthy, or if they are HIV positive, or if they have TB, etc, etc. It's ironic how the media is only reporting on the unvaccinated being sick, but they do not report on the vaccinated who are sick.

 

[Scott CWO]

Lon, as operators/outfitters, we are in a hell of a predicament. I know other outfitters in Colorado that had significant portions of their seasons impacted when traveling clients infected their staff. What a mess. Luckily, we dodged that bullet last year. This year? Who knows? Even though I am vaccinated, I haven’t required it of my staff or clients due to choice and privacy concerns. About half my staff are vaccinated. As for clients, I haven’t addressed it because of the ramifications both ways. All the way around, this situation sucks. What bothers me a little is that some people think that their personal decision only affects them. This whole situation is a mine field. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

I was in Botswana in June. I didn’t ask Johan Calitz ahead of time about vaccinations. I got vaccinated before I went because I didn’t want to get COVID and not be able to go on such an expensive trip. Lots of money on the line. I also didn’t want to infect someone else. Still, the vaccines are 90-95% effective and not a guarantee. For a few weeks before I left, I avoided large gatherings and church and asked my wife not to go as well. During conversations with my PH, he told me he had received the first of the two shots. I didn’t ask him, it just came up in conversation. Same for Johan.

If you feel strongly about clients getting vaccinated, I would suggest asking them if they are vaccinated before booking. Then, the choice is YOURS, whether to book them or not and you are not laying down a mandate.

 

[1dirthawker]

My wife and I just returned from camp during the 3 days we were gone several Covid related events have taken place. 1. On Saturday my wife uncle fell ill with Covid & entered the hospital in Harare, died Sunday.

Lon,

you asked a very reasonable question, and yes it did kick off a bit of a fire storm. my sincere apologies for my part in "hijacking" or at the very least diverting your thread to some degree.

also, i am very sorry for your loss of a family member. i hope things go well for you this safari season. good luck and god speed.

don

 

[Hunting Hitman]

One of the young guys an work who had covid, his father got it whilst he was down and the father died. Our engineering supplier, really nice guy called Hilton, he was dropping off a delivery on a Thursday and I said hello, on Monday he was dead. His daughter is going to try to carry on. My good friend of 40 years died of it last week, he was cremated yesterday.
So unfortunately quite a few in our circle. None of these folks were vaccinated.

Kevin,
We haven't had many exchanges but I wanted to extend my condolences on the passing on what appears to be more than a few close people to both yourself and your business. I'm hoping that things everywhere get better soon.

 

[PARA45]

Well, I guess now I don’t have much of a choice but to get vaccinated. Biden approved for all military, DOD civilians and contractors to be vaccinated.

 

[shootist~]

My DIL is a DOD employee and was in the front of the line to get the jab. In large part to protect her husband and other family members, at that time. Most of those, including me, followed when it became available. (One even went on Safari )

It's really not that big of a deal, IMHO.

 

[Don458]

Would you hunt with a Safari Company that required Covid vaccination for all hunters and staff?

After my wife and I having a bad case of Covid we had our entire staff to have Covid Vaccinations. Here is my question, should Safari Companies require all visiting hunters to have had full vaccination for Covid? Believe me I believe in personal rights as much as anyone, but I am asking for everyones opinion.

https://rumble.com/ve0oap-doctors-around-the-world-warn-against-covid-vaccine.html. This should be seen

 

[Hogpatrol]

In other news, the yearly flu shots are available.

 

[CoElkHunter]

If your hunting crew is or decides to get vaccinated, great. I’ve had Covid and by MY choice, I’ve been vaccinated. Still can’t taste or smell much. I wouldn’t REQUIRE visiting hunters to be vaccinated. If they aren’t, that’s on them. Today, it’s the Delta variant, this fall it’ll be the United or Quantas variant and it won’t end anytime soon. If I ever decide to go on a hunt in Africa, what I want is an 18 hour direct flight at about $1500US round trip without rebooking flights ten times and with no testing and no threat of spending 14 days in a non descript quarantine “facility “ at my own expense. Remember, you can still test positive for the virus even though you’ve had it and/or the vaccine. It’s all up to the highly paid airport staff in a foreign country. Until that happens, I ain’t going!

 

[CoElkHunter]

View attachment 417628 In other news, the yearly flu shots are available. View attachment 417629

For which variant this year? Bob would know, since it starts in OZ during their winter.

 

[PARA45]

For me the Vacc is going to be mandatory Hopefully by next May, everything will be normal, whatever that “normal” will be.

 

[Don458]

A link would be helpful

Doctors around the world warn against Covid vaccine

Medical doctors from around the world issue a dire warning not to take the Covid vaccine!

rumble.com

 

[Stuart1970]

It wouldnt bother me if it is requested, we are a guest of the Outfitter and of their country. We have choices and are not beholden to any individual or are we being forced to go on safari. My PH in Namibia contracted the virus and spent three weeks in a hospital, on and off ventilator. He is slowly recovering and I am looking forward to spending time with him next fall. These are all personal choices and we must all weigh them before we make our choices. WE as in the US citizens have much greater access to the Pfizer, Moderna and J&J products. I chose the Vaccination based on my ability to travel, I feel once this is fully approved by the FDA we will see more and more companies requiring employees and clients to be vaccinated.

 

[Tbitty]

Most (or all) of us voluntarily get vaccinations before travel for area specific diseases, such as malaria. The only real difference is those vaccines have been around for many years and the side effects (both short and long term) are well known. To my knowledge, none of them are "required" for travel, they are only recommended.

To me, it would be equally efficient to require a negative covid test OR be fully vaccinated. It should help keep the risk low for you and your staff, while not alienating those who are against the vaccine. However, it is your business and your right to set the parameters for joining you on a hunt. Sure, there will be some who rule out joining you due to policy, and others who find it easier to book with someone else. But I'd venture there are an abundance of willing hunters to agree to your terms.

Assuming 50%+ of the population is fully vaccinated, your question really only pertains to the remaining minority who are not. If a 50/50 split (or majority) of those remaining are willing to get it for the hunt, then I don't presume you would see any negative impact to your business.

I personally would not let a vaccination policy be the determining factor in my next hunt. I prefer to feel good about the people I'm using, belive it is the right fit for my style of hunting, and be receiving the right value for my money.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Would you hunt with a Safari Company that required Covid vaccination for all hunters and staff?

After my wife and I having a bad case of Covid we had our entire staff to have Covid Vaccinations. Here is my question, should Safari Companies require all visiting hunters to have had full vaccination for Covid? Believe me I believe in personal rights as much as anyone, but I am asking for everyones opinion.

Lon,

Do you feel like you've grabbed a wounded leopard by the tail yet? I think by now you can identify 3 separate groups.

Group 1: Doesn't care if you require a vaccine. They got the shots and aren't worried about if you and your staff got yours.

Group 2: Supports you, got the shots but feel better hunting with you because you and your staff also got yours.

Group 3: Are opposed to the vaccine and won't get it. Obviously they would not hunt with you.

This really comes as no surprise to me, it was my guess when you started this thread. At this point, I think you just have to make a decision and let the chips fall where they may. You and only you can decide what's best for your business and your employees. Make your decision, move forward and don't bother looking back. You'll just drive yourself nuts if you start double guessing the decision. Many people, who don't have to suffer any consequences of that decision, will do that for you. You just can't waste your time worrying about those opinions.

I think in reality this decision will probably be made for you within the next year. We here in the U.S., much to my dismay, are already seeing the signs that vaccines will be mandated. My guess is most countries will require the international traveler to their countries to be vaccinated for Covid the same as some African countries require a yellow fever vaccine.

Whatever you decide, you have my best wishes for continued success!