COVID vaccination required by Safari Company or not, your suggestion

[sestoppelman]

Yes I think most outfitters try to avoid booking 2x1 with strangers. The benefit rarely outweighs the risks.

My first safari in Tanzania in 1985 was such a hunt. Fella from Austria and I shared the hunt. We made an odd couple but it worked out OK.

 

[markm]

Starting to sound too much like Nazi Germany for my comfort. Little Bush took us down this path after 9-11. And every President since with the possible exception of Trump (and I'm not one of his biggest fans, more in the best option available camp) has taken us further away from our Constitutional rights.

And it blows my mind the idiotic majority allows this!

View attachment 417191

People are funny they fall for more bull crap.sooner or later businesses will start getting hurt by the so called shot card.and what are these business going to do have a medical expert at the doors reading the cards don't think so.

 

[1dirthawker]

My first question is: Is/was there a policy in place requiring that everyone at camp (PH, staff, hunters, visitors, etc.) have a covid shot that was clearly laid out and communicated prior to booking? If such a policy is in place, then Non-Covid Shot (NCS) hunter clearly violated the outfitters policy and it is his loss. He is excluded.

If there is no such policy in place, and Covid Shot (CS) hunter does not want to hunt with NCS, then he can either 1) go home. 2) sit at camp until NCS gets his buffalo and then go out after. If all the hunt is used up on NCS hunter, well, he excluded himself by refusing to go along.

From the perspective of a hunter, I would not book a 2 on 1 hunt with an unknown person, because even if you eliminate covid from the situation, too many variables on potential issues come to my mind.

And that is my opinion to your hypothetical situation, Good Sir.

Gina


just Gina:

very well stated!!! again, why do the vaccinated need to worry about those that are not. they obviously now, CAN get covid, but wont get sick. they can get sick from vaccinated people as well, so whats the big deal??!! go live your life, stop living in fear!!!

 

[1dirthawker]

If you have been exposed to it and did not get sick or died, your immunity system did it's job - protected you of the virus and now you already have the immunity that the vaccine is suppose to trigger. So why would you be forced to take a vaccine?

Second, if the vaccines works, why would you care if others are vaccinated or not. You are "protected". Apparently it works so good that a "booster" is now required after less than 6 month.

To each his own. But to impose your belief on others it is never a good thing. In any dictatorship the leaders are always right.

+1

why DO people with natural immunity, that got covid and were asymptomatic need to get a "vaccine passport"??

anyone in america that wants a shot can get one, period.

why do individuals with the shot, insist on others getting the shot?? even the vaccinated can spread the disease, so whats the diff? if you guys are worried about me getting it, don't. thanks for the concern, but I'm fine. and, i can't get you sick enough to matter.

 

[1dirthawker]

Postscript:
For those who spout anecdotal information about knowing people who get the "shot" and yet were infectious and/or sought medical attention and are against vaccination as a result, you are not really understanding the science and yet I do understand, as there is a huge amount of (mis)information on the Internet. For those, however, who think that it is not a serious disease, that it is some kind of means of government control, that the vaccine does not in any degree confer protection and that you should shun your responsibility and recommend actions as your professed personal right or freedoms to otherwise protect the vulnerable and in preventing spread of the virus, please shut the F**K up!

Chris M,

first, the internet is where most people (even you) get their info. second, there is a huge amount of mis information out there, you are correct. the bummer is, there is a huge amount of mis information about covid from your/my government as well.

regarding your last sentence, shut the F up, hmmm, i certainly don't want to take recommendations from individuals that wont recognize there have been some horrible mistakes made, and recommendations that make NO sense (masks on kiddos in shcool, etc) while they are "following the science". we can simply agree to disagree, without the angst or vulgarities.

 

[Philip Glass]

Would you hunt with a Safari Company that required Covid vaccination for all hunters and staff?

After my wife and I having a bad case of Covid we had our entire staff to have Covid Vaccinations. Here is my question, should Safari Companies require all visiting hunters to have had full vaccination for Covid? Believe me I believe in personal rights as much as anyone, but I am asking for everyones opinion.

Are you kidding?

 

[Deleted member 40394]

@Tokoloshe Safaris

To answer your original question, no I would not hunt with an outfitter or patronize any other business for that matter who would require proof of vaccination. Although I recognize the right of a private business to require this, it is also my right to choose who I do business with based on my personal principles.

To force unwanted or unnecessary medicine or medical procedures upon someone is not only a violation of human rights, it defies the fundamental freedoms we were afforded by our US Constitution that at least some of us still hold sacred. This is not just a US concept. The entire free world post-WW2 formulated and agreed to these basic human rights. I suppose western society has forgotten the Nuremberg Code over the last 70+ years?

Regardless of the rationalizations they offer, when you allow a government to manufacture reasons for taking away your freedoms in the name of the "greater good", you have opened the door to tyranny. I personally believe upholding the foundational principles of our freedoms as the true "greater good" in the end..

Dang right!

 

[sestoppelman]

Chris M
Postscript:
For those who spout anecdotal information about knowing people who get the "shot" and yet were infectious and/or sought medical attention and are against vaccination as a result, you are not really understanding the science and yet I do understand, as there is a huge amount of (mis)information on the Internet. For those, however, who think that it is not a serious disease, that it is some kind of means of government control, that the vaccine does not in any degree confer protection and that you should shun your responsibility and recommend actions as your professed personal right or freedoms to otherwise protect the vulnerable and in preventing spread of the virus, please shut the F**K up!

You sounded quite reasonable and knowledgeable right up until your last insulting sentence. What on earth makes you think that telling those who dont agree with you will suddenly change their minds by being told to shut the f up!? Seriously?
Methinks you been drinking waaaay too much Koolaid!!

 

[shootist~]

Yes to the original question.

 

[Vintageguy]

My wife is an ER nurse and the hospital she works at has been swamped with Covid D and almost all they’ve seen with it have been vaccinated. Good news is that they haven’t seen much in way of serious cases almost all get some fluids and go home.
As far as requiring it. I have had the vaccine but I personally know many who have had serious health issues caused by it and some appear to possibly be long term like a good friend’s wife who was healthy late forties and is now into her fifth month of continuing high fever and non ceasing joint and muscle pain like she’s got severe arthritis. I will have to see some real perks before I would go for a booster, so far I haven’t seen those perks so much. I say to each their own, but stop forcing crap on others. I asked the outfit I’m going with this year if they required masks and if they had I wouldn’t be going, they have a choice and so do I.

 

[Spearhead]

L

Thank you Bob! And thank you for the prayers! She needs them!
Hi Gina,

In my original post I asked for suggestions concerning a Covid policy for any Safari Co.. Wow did I start a firestorm. I respect your opinion so i would like to ask you a question on how you would handle a hypothetical situation.
Safari co. X sell a 2 on 1 buffalo to 2 unknown to each other hunter. 1 has been vaccinated 1 has not. Upon meeting in camp vaccinated hunter, will not hunt for 10 days with un-vaccinated hunter. Keep in mind there is one cruiser and one PH?
Oh, We did not ask either hunter if they had been vaccinated in their pre hunt info since we respect privacy.

cheers, Lon

Lon,
Don't sweat it. Kids have been mandated for certain vaccines to go to school for years and years. Doesn't seem to be any fuss about that.
There will always be experts that will gladly offer you their opinion. This is a hunting site so the number of immunologists here is probably slim that can give you facts instead of opinions.

In response to a previous expert post, it IS a vaccine and NOT a shot. Shot is slang for a therapeutic injectable medication. Vaccines don't have a therapeutic value YET. They are in the works. See how that misinformation thing happens??????

 

[Excessexpress]

On the OP, in the absence of specific information in your health and safety requirements, I would suggest the following;

* As an employer, vaccination of your staff is a reasonable means of reducing their risk. They will likely appreciate you taking care of their health given the prevalence of other infectious disease that will make COVID significantly more risky for them.

* As a service provider, I would suggest the terms and conditions to require customers to declare whether they have been vaccinated. This allows you to make decisions about 2 on 1 hunts, preventative measures, whether you want to accept the booking at all etc.

* There isn’t anything wrong with a expressing a strong preference/recommendation for clients to be vaccinated as well as promoting that your staff have been.

* These measures may be taken out of your hands in part, with the likelihood of vaccinations being required for travel. As more information comes to light, there may be a need to clarify a date of last vaccination etc.That is likely to be more a regulatory matter that all will have to meet.

 

[1dirthawker]

I have heard that a very high percentage of current cases (90+%) are from the Delta variant and are the un-vaccinated.

For some it might be business, but for the ones taking the jab is as personal as it can get.

It's funny that the conversation completely ignores 2 significant aspects of this Covid pandemic.

If you have been exposed to it and did not get sick or died, your immunity system did it's job - protected you of the virus and now you already have the immunity that the vaccine is suppose to trigger. So why would you be forced to take a vaccine?

Second, if the vaccines works, why would you care if others are vaccinated or not. You are "protected". Apparently it works so good that a "booster" is now required after less than 6 month.

To each his own. But to impose your belief on others it is never a good thing. In any dictatorship the leaders are always right.

For those "know-it-all" my I suggest to research what is happening right now in Israel - the country with the highest number of vaccinated people?

negative information about the experimental/unapproved vaccines is fairly difficult to find. also, positive information about the treatments/therapudics is also hard to find, due to suppression by big tech. for example, hydroxyclhoroquine was maligned very early by a study that was found to be unsupported by the "science" and was removed by a famous medical org. the report was in the "lancet" i believe, and it stated that hydroxy caused heart issues and did not work on covid. when the peer review was started, it was found to be unsupported and removed from the publication, but the damage was done and Facebook, instagram, twitter and other social media blocked positive info about hydroxy. which is one of the worlds safest drugs and is sold over the counter in many counties.

that is the part that make me the most skeptical regarding the benefit of the vaccine, any dissension regarding the vaccine is squashed or maligned. the treatments are very inexpensive and pretty darn effective. as time goes on, this will come to light more and more. i will attach a screen shot my wife showed me regarding israel and its current covid experience.

lastly, my wife got covid (she was on hydroxy for her RA) and had mild symptoms and tested negative not once but twice, but lost her sense of taste and smell for a month. (her doc said she had it, the tests were wrong.) i suspect i got it as well and was pretty asymptomatic so i have a natural immunity. that is another reason i am reluctant to get a vaccine.

 

[BSO Dave]

For those, however, who think that it is not a serious disease, that it is some kind of means of government control, that the vaccine does not in any degree confer protection and that you should shun your responsibility and recommend actions as your professed personal right or freedoms to otherwise protect the vulnerable and in preventing spread of the virus, please shut the F**K up!

Shun my responsibility to protect others? Really? My Constitutional freedoms aside for a moment, how about the responsibility for my OWN health and safety? Nobody should be mandated to put their own health and safety at risk for the "greater good" especially when the mandates are politically motivated and not supported by the data. Good luck shutting me up tough guy! LMFAO!

Don't sweat it. Kids have been mandated for certain vaccines to go to school for years and years. Doesn't seem to be any fuss about that.
There will always be experts that will gladly offer you their opinion. This is a hunting site so the number of immunologists here is probably slim that can give you facts instead of opinions.

There was no "fuss" over the school vaccines you reference because they were approved vaccines used to treat diseases which were either highly debilitating or posed a significant mortality rate directly affecting their age group.

The data clearly justifies the "fuss" over mandating children to take an experimental vaccine of which the long-term affects are completely unknown for a disease that has an infinitesimally low mortality rate for their demographic. If there is a 30-50% chance my child is going to die from smallpox or polio, I'm getting them vaccinated regardless of any potential side effects. If there is less than .01 chance of death as is the case of children under 17 with Covid, it seems pretty reasonable for a parent to consider the potential harmful side and long-term effects of an experimental vaccine. No need to be an immunologist or expert to opine on this.. Only the application of some common sense is required.

In regard to mandating children to get vaccinated for the "greater good", see my reply above...

 

[Wyatt Smith]

To the OP, No I would not. I should add that I am 24 years old, and not financially able to do any traveling by airline.
Being young as I am, I am very worried about LONG term side affects. We all know for a fact that this vaccine has only been needed, developed, and distributed for a maximum of three years, that is not long term testing. The very fact that it was called “Operation Warp Speed” scares me.

 

[sestoppelman]

L

Lon,
Don't sweat it. Kids have been mandated for certain vaccines to go to school for years and years. Doesn't seem to be any fuss about that.
There will always be experts that will gladly offer you their opinion. This is a hunting site so the number of immunologists here is probably slim that can give you facts instead of opinions.

In response to a previous expert post, it IS a vaccine and NOT a shot. Shot is slang for a therapeutic injectable medication. Vaccines don't have a therapeutic value YET. They are in the works. See how that misinformation thing happens??????

I have seen this go back and forth numerous times. Is it or is it not a vaccine?
Here is an article from March by a fella I never heard of, not a medico but an economist by the sound of it, but he seems to have a very good grasp of what is going on here.
My wife is also a retired RN nurse of some 30 years experience and she agrees with what this chap has to say about it as do I.
He says the Covid "vaccines" are not vaccines because a true vaccine uses a small dose of the virus or similar virus whereas these "vaccines" do not. Interesting article either way, worth 5 minutes of ones time I think.

The Vaccines Aren’t Actually Vaccines - Daily Reckoning

Jim Rickards: The vaccines don’t prevent you from getting COVID or prevent you from spreading it to others…

dailyreckoning.com

 

[machinistbutler]

I don't believe the astra zeneca is an mRNA .

As to the original post I would have no problem hunting with an outfit that required proof of the vaccine.

I also received the recommended precautionary treatments for typhoid, hepatitis, tetanus and others for where I was travelling based on my Doctor's recommendations. I don't believe my doctor and pharmacist are bogeymen out to get me through some world conspiracy secret plan.

I don't have a tin foil hat , but each to their own.


Best of success with your hunting season @Tokoloshe Safaris

 

[sestoppelman]

"I don't believe the astra zeneca is an mRNA ".

I think this is correct, he sort of lumps them together in the article, but the AZ works a bit differently, however I think its still not being used here, yet.

 

[machinistbutler]

I have seen this go back and forth numerous times. Is it or is it not a vaccine?
Here is an article from March by a fella I never heard of, not a medico but an economist by the sound of it, but he seems to have a very good grasp of what is going on here.
My wife is also a retired RN nurse of some 30 years experience and she agrees with what this chap has to say about it as do I.
He says the Covid "vaccines" are not vaccines because a true vaccine uses a small dose of the virus or similar virus whereas these "vaccines" do not. Interesting article either way, worth 5 minutes of ones time I think.

The Vaccines Aren’t Actually Vaccines - Daily Reckoning

Jim Rickards: The vaccines don’t prevent you from getting COVID or prevent you from spreading it to others…

dailyreckoning.com

I think this one shows it uses a small bit of the virus?

 

[machinistbutler]

"I don't believe the astra zeneca is an mRNA ".

I think this is correct, he sort of lumps them together in the article, but the AZ works a bit differently, however I think its still not being used here, yet.

I just know I got as sick as hell after the first astra shot. It was not pleasant at all! A couple days later all was good though. Was like a bad flu with a wicked fever.