COVID vaccination required by Safari Company or not, your suggestion

[1dirthawker]

Group 3: Are opposed to the vaccine and won't get it. Obviously they would not hunt with you.

phil,

not quite right. semi opposed, don't need it, but, would hunt with lon if he did not require/mandate me getting it. i suspect many that you have decided would be in group #3 feel the same. would hunt with an outfitter if he did not REQUIRE me to have it.

I think in reality this decision will probably be made for you within the next year. We here in the U.S., much to my dismay, are already seeing the signs that vaccines will be mandated.

unfortunately, you might be right. this might decide if i end up returning to africa in the near future.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

phil,

not quite right. semi opposed, don't need it, but, would hunt with lon if he did not require/mandate me getting it. i suspect many that you have decided would be in group #3 feel the same. would hunt with an outfitter if he did not REQUIRE me to have it.


unfortunately, you might be right. this might decide if i end up returning to africa in the near future.

Hi Phil,

Thank you for your opinion and thoughts. I doubt if many people feel more strongly about their personal rights than myself. That said, I would like to let you know where as a company we stand on this issue.

1. All company employees have been vaccinated.
2. Masks are not worn, unless staff wishes to do so in their private quarters.
3. We request that any National Parks or Campfire ranger provided be vaccinated. (out of our control)
4. On our pre-hunt form we do ask if the client has been vaccinated.
5. Laws of the country are strictly adhered to.
6. Medical insurance such as Ripcort, etc. are recommended.

Since vaccinations are far from foolproof any employee who exhibits symptoms will be removed from the hunting camp with normal pay.

Phil if you have further suggestions feel free to express them. I do believe your chances of contracting Covid is more likely than contracting Malaria, but no one seems to care if a Safari Operator recommends that they take a Malaria Prophylatic, which are also not fool proof or 100% safe.

 

[Rimshot]

Lon, it looks like you are trying to make thoughtful and informed decisions for your company and clients. You are trying to do what's right, and not necessarily what is expedient or popular. I applaud that effort and I'd definitely want to hunt with someone like that, no matter what their ultimate policy decision was.

The Covid situation is dynamic and what was true today or 6 months ago may be invalid by the time the hunt starts. Six months ago, I wouldn't have cared if clients were not vaccinated. The vaccines had such effective sterilizing immunity against earlier, less contagious strains of the virus that the risk of even becoming infected if already vaccinated was minor.

Today, if I were in your place, I'd want my clients to have either been vaccinated or have a documented recovery from Covid. A very small number of people can't get vaccinated for medical reasons. If rapid Covid testing is available, that could also be used to screen for infection. If a positive showed, a follow-up PCR test could confirm. High air exchange indoors has been shown to reduce exposure. Weather permitting, perhaps I'd have meals and personal interaction outside. Simple changes and adjustments can be made to reduce infection risk. It doesn't have to be an always or never decision or policy. If the inconvenience is negligible for a sizable risk reduction, good tradeoff! If something is obtrusive/disruptive and you've already got other mitigations (like vaccination) in place, bad tradeoff!

Nothing is 100% and this silly, all-or-nothing binary thinking has created a real mess, causing people to rely on faulty intuition rather than reason. The barrage of "this vaccinated person got covid, see it doesn't work!" and "I wore a mask and got covid, masks don't work!" perfectly illustrates this. Would the same people argue that because a triathlete with only 5% body fat died of heart disease, exercise is pointless and being morbidly obese carries no extra mortality risk?

The chance of you or your staff becoming infected is reduced because of the vaccine. The chance of becoming severely ill is also reduced if you do become infected. Still, becoming ill would be disruptive to your business, even if symptoms are 'mild'. I think it is perfectly reasonable to make lots of small, unobtrusive changes to limit infection risk. I bet if the vaccine were in pill form, nobody would be freaking out about it, but needle = scary.

 

[machinistbutler]

I heard of a guy who crashed his car and it rolled into a lake and he died because he had his seatbelt on. I am never wearing a seatbelt....

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Hi Rimshot,

Thank you for your input. I just finished a meeting with Binga Council. They are striving to have all of their rangers vaccinated. Any Ranger not vaccinated will receive a Covid test they will then go into quarantine until collected by the Safari co. All Binga Council Rangers must be vaccinated by 17 August.

This is Binga Councils policy, but I think it is a good one.

Again, I state as a Company policy, at this time we do not require that clients be vaccinated.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

phil,

not quite right. semi opposed, don't need it, but, would hunt with lon if he did not require/mandate me getting it. i suspect many that you have decided would be in group #3 feel the same. would hunt with an outfitter if he did not REQUIRE me to have it.


unfortunately, you might be right. this might decide if i end up returning to africa in the near future.

Yes, I should have added for Group 3 if Lon requires the vaccination. My fingers sometimes aren't as fast as my brain.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Hi Phil,

Thank you for your opinion and thoughts. I doubt if many people feel more strongly about their personal rights than myself. That said, I would like to let you know where as a company we stand on this issue.

1. All company employees have been vaccinated.
2. Masks are not worn, unless staff wishes to do so in their private quarters.
3. We request that any National Parks or Campfire ranger provided be vaccinated. (out of our control)
4. On our pre-hunt form we do ask if the client has been vaccinated.
5. Laws of the country are strictly adhered to.
6. Medical insurance such as Ripcort, etc. are recommended.

Since vaccinations are far from foolproof any employee who exhibits symptoms will be removed from the hunting camp with normal pay.

Phil if you have further suggestions feel free to express them. I do believe your chances of contracting Covid is more likely than contracting Malaria, but no one seems to care if a Safari Operator recommends that they take a Malaria Prophylatic, which are also not fool proof or 100% safe.

I think you're trying to do the best you can for you, your family and staff, and I can only respect that. For me personally I got Covid in January and I've also been vaccinated in April. I got the vaccination with some amount of concern, but decided due to my age that the overall risk was higher to not get vaccinated than to get it. I readily concede I may have made the wrong choice and will find out in the long run. As such I respect the decision by anyone to not get it.

 

[Scott CWO]

If your hunting crew is or decides to get vaccinated, great. I’ve had Covid and by MY choice, I’ve been vaccinated. Still can’t taste or smell much. I wouldn’t REQUIRE visiting hunters to be vaccinated. If they aren’t, that’s on them. Today, it’s the Delta variant, this fall it’ll be the United or Quantas variant and it won’t end anytime soon. If I ever decide to go on a hunt in Africa, what I want is an 18 hour direct flight at about $1500US round trip without rebooking flights ten times and with no testing and no threat of spending 14 days in a non descript quarantine “facility “ at my own expense. Remember, you can still test positive for the virus even though you’ve had it and/or the vaccine. It’s all up to the highly paid airport staff in a foreign country. Until that happens, I ain’t going!

Not necessarily. I know a company that can test you in your car in Colorado with results in a few hours. Then, your African outfitter can arrange a test from a trusted professional at camp or nearby. Johan had a doctor come to his house to test me the day before I flew home. Not as big a deal as some people want to blow it up to be. Lots of hype out there on all sides.

 

[Don458]

A link would be helpful

I have posted a link if you do not see it the powers that be are censoring it . This same information has been deleted from many social formats. We won’t stop. 1 st amendment

 

[Strausser]

Saw it,thanks.

I have posted a link if you do not see it the powers that be are censoring it . This same information has been deleted from many social formats. We won’t stop. 1 st amendment

 

[sestoppelman]

Well, I guess now I don’t have much of a choice but to get vaccinated. Biden approved for all military, DOD civilians and contractors to be vaccinated.

You still have a choice, albeit not a very good one.

 

[bowjijohn]

You will have to put up with being inoculated in the forces - seeing it is just part of the biological element of the 6D warfare being directed against the west by our friends from the East

 

[Hogpatrol]

Skip to the 15 minute mark and listen to about the 21 minute mark. I'd challenge anyone to argue with this dude..........

Playing the devil here, the other side of the story. Seems there may be some conflicts of interest.

Indiana Doctor Piles On Bogus COVID-19 Claims in Viral Video - FactCheck.org

In a viral video, an Indiana physician baselessly claimed that the COVID-19 vaccines, which have been shown to be safe and effective, "fight the virus wrong and let the virus become worse than it would with native infection." He also incorrectly said no vaccine prevents infection and contended...

www.factcheck.org

 

[sestoppelman]

Of course, what he said doesnt fit the narrative. Vaccine good, other opinions, not good.
Factcheck.org is not an unbiased group at all.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Of course, what he said doesnt fit the narrative. Vaccine good, other opinions, not good.
Factcheck.org is not an unbiased group at all.

More fuel for the fire, factcheck.org has a center rating by allsides. ASide that, their still seems to be a conflict of interest with this doctor having online sales of vitamins and supplements. Everyone has their opinion but I tend to look at those involved in that industry as quasi-quacks.

Media Bias

Everyone is biased — and that’s okay. But hidden media bias misleads, manipulates and divides us. AllSides makes media bias transparent, helping you to easily identify different perspectives so you can get the full picture and think for yourself.

www.allsides.com

 

[sestoppelman]

Love how they poo poo Ivermectin, Vit C, zinc etc. Say "its not been approved" by the FDA.. LOL!! Neither have ANY of the so called vaccines!!
All of this stuff is experimental. It may be years before we really know what worked best.

 

[Rimshot]

Of course, what he said doesnt fit the narrative. Vaccine good, other opinions, not good.
Factcheck.org is not an unbiased group at all.

What he said doesn't fit reality, much less any narrative. The major feature of propaganda is that it's an asymmetric war of misinformation. It takes much less time and effort to make up a bunch of nonsense, lie, and pepper it with some jargon and truth (what this guy is doing) than it does to debunk each false claim line by line.
By the time someone methodically debunks each invented or misrepresented fact, statistic, or study, the propagandist has moved on with making up a dozen new ones. A great way to enrich yourself by taking advantage of human psychology (confirmation bias) if one is morally bankrupt.

 

[machinistbutler]

9 out of ten doctors prefer chesterfield cigarettes.so light so smooth, so easy on the draw.

 

[sestoppelman]

What he said doesn't fit reality, much less any narrative. The major feature of propaganda is that it's an asymmetric war of misinformation. It takes much less time and effort to make up a bunch of nonsense, lie, and pepper it with some jargon and truth (what this guy is doing) than it does to debunk each false claim line by line.
By the time someone methodically debunks each invented or misrepresented fact, statistic, or study, the propagandist has moved on with making up a dozen new ones. A great way to enrich yourself by taking advantage of human psychology (confirmation bias) if one is morally bankrupt.

Like the fed doesnt get involved in misinformation? Ever listen to Biden or Jen P-socki? How about the DHS boss Mayorkas, always claiming that Bidens border debacle is Trumps fault, which of course is utter nonsense for spoon feeding to the general ignorant public.
Yeah, but one doctor with a different opinion, he is dangerous and must be silenced.

 

[Rimshot]

Like the fed doesnt get involved in misinformation? Ever listen to Biden or Jen P-socki? How about the DHS boss Mayorkas, always claiming that Bidens border debacle is Trumps fault, which of course is utter nonsense for spoon feeding to the general ignorant public.
Yeah, but one doctor with a different opinion, he is dangerous and must be silenced.

I agree with you a lot here. The fed did/does get involved in misinformation. By trying to socially engineer behavior with lies, omissions, and misinformation, they've allowed fake 'experts' to flourish and get rich from the confusion.

I don't listen to Biden or whoever Jen P-socki is. Politicians I find to be either poorly informed or have an agenda that may not be aligned with my own self-interest.

I also agree that doctors/experts/Joe Sixpack should NOT be silenced, no matter how stupid or fabricated their opinion is. I can't think of any good reason for censorship, and the attempt to do so simply ramps up the conspiracy paranoia. They SHOULD be mocked, ridiculed, and debunked with reason and the scientific method. We should be open to the battle of ideas, not control of information