COVID vaccination required by Safari Company or not, your suggestion

[flat8]

@Longwalker, I respectfully ask what you think of natural immunity? Should a person who has already had COVID be forced to take a vaccine if they don’t wish to be ‘free to choose to stay home?’ Data from Israel- arguably the best we have in the world right now - shows that a fully vaccinated person is 5.96x MORE likely of getting a breakthrough case than a person who had Covid has of being reinfected.

 

[lwaters]

@Longwalker, I respectfully ask what you think of natural immunity? Should a person who has already had COVID be forced to take a vaccine if they don’t wish to be ‘free to choose to stay home?’ Data from Israel- arguably the best we have in the world right now - shows that a fully vaccinated person is 5.96x MORE likely of getting a breakthrough case than a person who had Covid has of being reinfected.

I had a breakthrough case. It's not really a bad thing to happen.

 

[flat8]

I had a breakthrough case. It's not really a bad thing to happen.

I agree. But that wasn’t my question.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

@Longwalker, I respectfully ask what you think of natural immunity? Should a person who has already had COVID be forced to take a vaccine if they don’t wish to be ‘free to choose to stay home?’ Data from Israel- arguably the best we have in the world right now - shows that a fully vaccinated person is 5.96x MORE likely of getting a breakthrough case than a person who had Covid has of being reinfected.

I'm not an epidemiologist, virologist or an expert on vaccines. Nor am I answering for Longwalker. The numbers from Israel however I think need to be taken in context.

As I understand it, Israel has a roughly 80% vaccination rate. And yes, particularly as new variants come about, even those who are vaccinated can get Covid. That being the case, since the vaccinated population far outnumbers the unvaccinated in Israel, it stands to reason that those who are vaccinated will likely show a higher infection rate than those who aren't.

So the question is if one gets Covid after being immunized, was the vaccination a failure? If we define failure as simply did the vaccinated get it or not, then yes it is. If the vaccination however protects you from severe disease resulting in you actually being asymptomatic or only exhibiting lighter symptoms for a shorter period of time, is that a success?

These Israeli COVID graphs prove Pfizer vaccine works

***

www.haaretz.com

I'm really not promoting that anyone get or not get the vaccination. I stand by that it's an individual decision and should remain that way. But I would argue you should make the decision as fully and accurately informed as you can be.

 

[flat8]

@PHOENIX PHIL - good points. My main question is why the dismissal of natural immunity? If you’ve had Covid, the likelihood is that you are at least, if not far more, protected from acquiring the virus or spreading the virus. And yet this is rarely even considered in the rush to get a shot in EVERY arm.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

@PHOENIX PHIL - good points. My main question is why the dismissal of natural immunity? If you’ve had Covid, the likelihood is that you are at least, if not far more, protected from acquiring the virus or spreading the virus. And yet this is rarely even considered in the rush to get a shot in EVERY arm.

Agree and as someone who has had Covid and decided to get vaccinated anyway. It was one of those things that I wish there was more information on before I decided. I guess I could have waited....oh well.

 

[lwaters]

@PHOENIX PHIL - good points. My main question is why the dismissal of natural immunity? If you’ve had Covid, the likelihood is that you are at least, if not far more, protected from acquiring the virus or spreading the virus. And yet this is rarely even considered in the rush to get a shot in EVERY arm.

I think it is because some think they have had covid but never got tested. My stepdaughter a Physician Assistant and has had covid and hasn't been vaccinated. She did think her mother and I should get vaccinated. Her mother is a RN and thinks her daughter should get vaccinated . She says more will die if we wait on natural immunity because that will take longer and gives more time for variants to mutate. But what about the rest of the world. The argument never ends. I got vaccinated had a breakthrough case toke regeneron monoclonal antibody infusion and it quickly toke care of it. I can't have a third shot for 90 days. I see another year of messed up school the economy is slowing. I look for some tough economic times ahead if a concensus on what to do isn't reached.

 

[cls]

It's funny that I was just talking to my GP about that this week, why isn't there more information or studies out there about those like us that have had COVID? He really didn't have much of an answer, but he did say that those that have had covid and then have been vaccinated as well were be even less likely to be infected again, no break through cases. I still wonder why there Isn't more information on the immunity of us poor slobs who've been infected.

 

[lwaters]

It's funny that I was just talking to my GP about that this week, why isn't there more information or studies out there about those like us that have had COVID? He really didn't have much of an answer, but he did say that those that have had covid and then have been vaccinated as well were be even less likely to be infected again, no break through cases. I still wonder why there Isn't more information on the immunity of us poor slobs who've been infected.

Thats true. I don't know anybody that has caught covid twice. Not saying it can't happen. Maybe if you had covid and had a positive test they should give you a card just like the vaccinated. I just wonder how many have had it and don't know. It really is a weird disease.

 

[shootist~]

I read today on Next Africa (a weekly Bloomberg publication) about yet another variant starting to spread. Seems to be something SA scientists are really good at detecting.

Guess we will know more soon.

 

[lwaters]

I read today on Next Africa (a weekly Bloomberg publication) about yet another variant starting to spread. Seems to be something SA scientists are really good at detecting.

Guess we will know more soon.

There a bunch of variants showing up in South America also. In Kansas ICUs are getting full. Some small towns are sending patients over 250 miles to an available ICU. Now were having nurses taking traveling nursing jobs for the big pay. You can't blame them if you have to be around sick people might as well get the big bucks. Be another long winter.

 

[CoElkHunter]

It's funny that I was just talking to my GP about that this week, why isn't there more information or studies out there about those like us that have had COVID? He really didn't have much of an answer, but he did say that those that have had covid and then have been vaccinated as well were be even less likely to be infected again, no break through cases. I still wonder why there Isn't more information on the immunity of us poor slobs who've been infected.

+1. I've had Covid and have been vaccinated 7 mos. later. I haven't been able to find any empirical data as to the immunity to variants when a person has had both? Or how long any of it lasts against the original virus or mutations. Seems those answers are buried somewhere under the constant barrage of "get vaccinated" or now one will "need a booster"? With the same current vaccine? How will that be effective against the Delta and other mutations? And now the "UM" variant is circulating and apparently the current vaccines don't work against it. The "science" seems to continually shift and I'm losing faith in it.

 

[Saul]

For those who have said that you would not hunt with an outfitter that required you to be vaccinated, does your opinion change if vaccination is required by the airlines?

 

[CoElkHunter]

I think it is because some think they have had covid but never got tested. My stepdaughter a Physician Assistant and has had covid and hasn't been vaccinated. She did think her mother and I should get vaccinated. Her mother is a RN and thinks her daughter should get vaccinated . She says more will die if we wait on natural immunity because that will take longer and gives more time for variants to mutate. But what about the rest of the world. The argument never ends. I got vaccinated had a breakthrough case toke regeneron monoclonal antibody infusion and it quickly toke care of it. I can't have a third shot for 90 days. I see another year of messed up school the economy is slowing. I look for some tough economic times ahead if a concensus on what to do isn't reached.

A few months ago, there was a clinic here in the US which tested for Covid everyone that passed through their doors, both vaccinated and unvaccinated. 80% of the patients tested positive for Covid, although most never realized they had it. My point being, while being vaccinated will most likely prevent one from ending up getting very sick and/or having to be admitted to a hospital, it won't prevent one from testing positive before a return flight to their home country and thus having to quarantine in a foreign country at their expense and unpaid time off from work. My work won't compensate me for days off being quarantined in a foreign country. Maybe small odds, but nevertheless very possible.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

A few months ago, there was a clinic here in the US which tested for Covid everyone that passed through their doors, both vaccinated and unvaccinated. 80% of the patients tested positive for Covid, although most never realized they had it. My point being, while being vaccinated will most likely prevent one from ending up getting very sick and/or having to be admitted to a hospital, it won't prevent one from testing positive before a return flight to their home country and thus having to quarantine in a foreign country at their expense and unpaid time off from work. My work won't compensate me for days off being quarantined in a foreign country. Maybe small odds, but nevertheless very possible.

This is why I'd hoped that we would get to the point that for air travel, the proof of vaccination would be enough and avoid all of this testing hassle and the uncertainty that comes with it.

 

[CoElkHunter]

This is why I'd hoped that we would get to the point that for air travel, the proof of vaccination would be enough and avoid all of this testing hassle and the uncertainty that comes with it.

+1. That's what I thought. A vaccine card would be enough to board a flight without testing and thus avoid the possibility of being quarantined. Seems like with the Covid variants popping up we're back to square one with the testing. But, we can still fly thankfully for now, it's just a matter of an individual's life circumstances and the risks vs. the benefits?

 

[lwaters]

Yes I wonder about the tests. My wife had more symptoms than me but tested negative. The reason they gave us that I had caught it first and she never had it long enough to be positive. Our doctor recommended us both get the regeneron infusion and we were both symptom free in three days. The county never called us and the quarantine instructions was just some paper the testing site gave us. Than the state called me and said if no fever for three days I no longer needed to quarantine. I never ever had a fever. They called my wife a few days later and told her the same. She was actually on quarantine a few more days than me. The day I was tested they asked if I would take a variant test. It was voluntary but I would never know the results. I did it but still don't know why I wouldn't know the results. Maybe money or personal issue. It all seemed kind of haphazard.

 

[Randy Bo]

I have followed this thread with great interest and the differences in opinion mirrors what I see in my community and even within my own family. My wife and I have decided to get vaccinated but, only after weeks of talking, praying and ”trying” to look at all of the scientific data. Many people state that there is no scientific data to support the vaccine and I don’t know if I’m really intelligent enough to refute this but, I would appreciate everyone’s thoughts on the following chart:

 

[davsel]

Read the fine print at the bottom of that graphic - it is a useless chart.
Several similar reports are circulating that attempt to show that unvaccinated individuals are at greater risk of hospitalization and death, however the fact that they consider "unvaccinated" to mean an individual has not had both shots is very misleading.
Just look at the stats coming out of Israel to see that the "vaccine" is at best worthless, and may be more harmful than Covid.
Also, "varients" are very seldom tested for - they're making assumptions and employing additional scare tactics.

 

[Randy Bo]

Read the fine print at the bottom of that graphic - it is a useless chart.
Several similar reports are circulating that attempt to show that unvaccinated individuals are at greater risk of hospitalization and death, however the fact that they consider "unvaccinated" to mean an individual has not had both shots is very misleading.
Just look at the stats coming out of Israel to see that the "vaccine" is at best worthless, and may be more harmful than Covid.
Also, "varients" are very seldom tested for - they're making assumptions and employing additional scare tactics.

The note at the bottom of the chart reads:
“Those not fully vaccinated includes those who are not vaccinated, not yet fully vaccinated, or where vaccination status is unknown.”
I don’t understand how this definition of ”not fully vaccinated” makes this chart useless.
What is your definition of “not fully vaccinated”?