Bullets For Buffalo

[WAB]

Predictable reaction from those lacking stones, when challenged, is to want to run.

Seriously dude? Let it go.

 

[BWH]

Predictable reaction from those lacking stones, when challenged, is to want to run.

Dude... stop, ok...

 

[machinistbutler]

I can't wait, if the stars align correctly, to be able to test a bullet or two on a Buffalo!

Read so much over the years about it when I finally get lined up on one I will probably faint.

 

[fourfive8]

Forever the debate about buffalo bullets, solid vs expanding. I've tested a lot of the bullets mentioned in these discussions but not the Peregrines. I have either shot or been around a lot of big animals shot with a wide variety of bullets and calibers. To be perfectly honest, I am still not 100% convinced one way or the other. Maybe for some hunters with some PHs, the expanding design only is the way to go. For others maybe expanding first shot then penetrating solids after that. I've done it both ways. I know for a fact that once in a while there is simply no substitute for a straight line, deep penetrating solid on shots after the first shot. Other times, exclusively using nothing but bullets like the Swift A Frame works perfectly well. For those instances where the hunter shoots an expanding bullet for the first shot and the buff puts it in that odd, hopping gear buff have when buggered, and is leaving the country, usually offering at best only a quartering away shot, there simply is no way an expanding bullet is going to reliably get to the vitals if having to traverse possibly a hind leg plus three feet of compact, wet rumen forage to get there. Some hunters seem perfectly happy to get the first shot in then let the PH do the rest. That attitude kind of gives me an uneasy feeling though. I would rather be contributing in a real way to the finality of killing what I have chosen to shoot in the first place. But make no mistake, there are those who simply can't shoot well (crappy shots to put it bluntly) or are so rattled by the experience they muff the first shot. Then it really doesn't matter- I'd say if the PH sees the hit on the buff and it is smack in the flank on a broadside... it is time to start shooting to try to end it. But that's two different things and a bad first hit by a hunter has little to do with the type of bullets or any combination of bullets he may have in his rifle.

But I'll say it again, I'm not 100% convinced one way or the other and can see both sides of the debate. And I'm sure it will continue long after we're gone.

As to the theme of the OP's post comparing a couple of bullet designs, the results of the Peregrines look really good. Not unlike both the TSX and the "late, great" North Fork Cup Point Solid. Interesting the "plunger" insert stayed in a couple of those shown.

 

[Professor Mawla]

Are you able to get Woodleigh projectiles and ADI (Hodgdon) powder in you neck of the woods Professor Mawla?

l only ask as I’m loading the 550gn Woodleigh in front of 73gn of
ADI Benchmark 2 (Hodgdon BENCHMARK) powder in my .458WM and in my 24” barrel I’m getting a strong 2080fps.

In your 25” barrel you’ll probably be on 2100fps or possibly more - and that should be reasonably effective on your Gaur!

BTW the load I mentioned came directly from Geoff McDonald the owner of Woodleigh...

Cheers,

Russ

@Badboymelvin

I sincerely apologize for the delay in reading your inquiry . I invariably source all of my .458 Winchester Magnum ammunition and / or reloading components whenever I travel to the United States . I have used Woodleigh 600 grain round nosed steel jacketed solid bullets in a .505 Gibbs , when I hunted water buffalo in Australia ( these were handloaded rounds ) . I actually found their performance to be most satisfactory .

I have not been fortunate enough to try Woodleigh bullets in my custom .458 Winchester Magnum ( yet ) , but I imagine that they should be superior to Hornady bullets . Next time I visit the United States , I intend to acquire some 500 grain Woodleigh round nosed steel jacketed solid bullets and some 500 grain Woodleigh soft nosed bullets for handloading . Is your .458 Winchester Magnum a Zastava Model 70 ?

 

[Badboymelvin]

@Badboymelvin

I sincerely apologize for the delay in reading your inquiry . I invariably source all of my .458 Winchester Magnum ammunition and / or reloading components whenever I travel to the United States . I have used Woodleigh 600 grain round nosed steel jacketed solid bullets in a .505 Gibbs , when I hunted water buffalo in Australia ( these were handloaded rounds ) . I actually found their performance to be most satisfactory .

I have not been fortunate enough to try Woodleigh bullets in my custom .458 Winchester Magnum ( yet ) , but I imagine that they should be superior to Hornady bullets . Next time I visit the United States , I intend to acquire some 500 grain Woodleigh round nosed steel jacketed solid bullets and some 500 grain Woodleigh soft nosed bullets for handloading . Is your .458 Winchester Magnum a Zastava Model 70 ?

Professor Mawla,

No need to apologise at all!

Yes, my .458 is a Zastava M70 and I love it.
Out of the 5 .458’s I’ve had this just may be my favourite...
Straight out of the box it fed flawlessly, ejects perfectly and is accurate. It has nice deep blueing and is a rugged and dependable DG rifle.
This would be the last rifle I’d ever part with.

l have tried the Woodleigh 500gn PP in a couple of the .458’s l had (a custom CZ and a Winchester M70) but then I got talking to a well known Australian gun writer who has considerable experience with the .458.
He told me to skip the 500gn and go straight to the 550gn as they load easy in the .458 case.
l took his advice and I found that I could get 2080fps with the 550gn in my 24” barrel.
Someone I know has used these 550gn on Water Buffalo in the Northern Territory out of his .458 - going a nearly identical speed to mine and he says that they hit HARD.
They might be worth a try? Am happy to send you some if you want...

When I run out of 550gn Woodleigh‘s I think I’m going to try the CEB bullets...
PaulT and Michael458 have done enough to convince me that these are THE projectile to use.
The only problem is all these 550gn Woodleigh’s I’ve got to get through!

Kindest regards,

Russ

 

[CoElkHunter]

Professor Mawla,

No need to apologise at all!

Yes, my .458 is a Zastava M70 and I love it.
Out of the 5 .458’s I’ve had this just may be my favourite...
Straight out of the box it fed flawlessly, ejects perfectly and is accurate. It has nice deep blueing and is a rugged and dependable DG rifle.
This would be the last rifle I’d ever part with.

l have tried the Woodleigh 500gn PP in a couple of the .458’s l had (a custom CZ and a Winchester M70) but then I got talking to a well known Australian gun writer who has considerable experience with the .458.
He told me to skip the 500gn and go straight to the 550gn as they load easy in the .458 case.
l took his advice and I found that I could get 2080fps with the 550gn in my 24” barrel.
Someone I know has used these 550gn on Water Buffalo in the Northern Territory out of his .458 - going a nearly identical speed to mine and he says that they hit HARD.
They might be worth a try? Am happy to send you some if you want...

When I run out of 550gn Woodleigh‘s I think I’m going to try the CEB bullets...
PaulT and Michael458 have done enough to convince me that these are THE projectile to use.
The only problem is all these 550gn Woodleigh’s I’ve got to get through!

Kindest regards,

Russ

Nice rifle. What brand of stock is that?

 

[Badboymelvin]

Professor Mawla,

Nice rifle. What brand of stock is that?

It's a Hogue stock - but it's the one with the full aluminium bedding block, not just the pillars.
I absolutely love this stock.
Its comfortable and grippy in the cold and wet and it seems to soak up recoil really well. It hides scratches really well too!
If you're looking for a replacement stock for your Mauser 98 that is strong and affordable I highly recommend the Hogue with the aluminium bedding block

Russ

 

[Brian]

IvW,
You are right. Shooting buffalo from a hide at a watering hole is not hunting, It is shooting, in this case we were testing bullets to learn which killed best, with a similar centre shoulder shot from the same range for each. We killed 3 buffs with 500 cal. CEB bullets and one with a 700 grain 577NE Peregrine Bushmaster bullet. ( Actually a semi-expanding bullet when fired at moderate big bore velocities.) All were Dead Right There.

Proff. Mawla,
When I am not using a CEB Raptor for the first shot on a buffalo. I use CEB Solids which gives deep, straight line penetration with a big wound channel. Not like a round nose solid. One can usually get the CEB solid bullet to got straight to the heart from most angles. You have to be lucky to get an expanding bullet or a round nose solid to do that reliably.

Also I don't take my first shot on a buffalo when there animals behind my target animal.

 

[Foxi]

Shooting an animal from a blind over water is hunting.

yes,i see it that way too,but the weaker edition of it.

A small roebuck hard stalked is worth 5x more to me than a strong 6-pointer from the hochsitz/blind simple killed.
I think most people will agree that stalking is the crown of hunting.
Regrettable who should not be physically able to do so.
Nevertheless-suum cuique

 

[Brian]

Foxi, I agree with you. Usually that is what do.

 

[Frederik]

Brian, with my limited buffalo experiences and hunting buffalo where they are hunted I would rather take a shot when it presents itself as sometimes you don't get that many chances to wait for other animals not being behind your buffalo.

So I would always carry softs first in the magazine and let the hunters carry softs and have some solids on their belt. But for me loosing the chance on a once and lifetime buffalo because I had solids loaded and waiting for a gap where the coast is clear I will rather take my chances with a premium soft first.

After that first shot and following up its easy just to top up the mag with solids if you need to.

Buffalo are unfortunately animals that enjoy company even old dagga boys tend to hang together untill none is left. So the chances are far more normal to have multiple animals together than just a lone buffalo.

 

[Brian]

I think most hunters start out with a soft. Some PH's insist on it, I'm told. brian

 

[Brian]

fourfive8, good point. I have been told by a guy I trust, that the Peregrine BushMaster performs like a NF Cup Point solid. ( I used one once in a 375HH. It expanded a bit and held together perfectly. John sold NF Bullets to a Swede, as I remember. He will sell to N. America and probably still makes the NF CPS.

 

[Foxi]

Professor Mawla,

No need to apologise at all!

Yes, my .458 is a Zastava M70 and I love it.
Out of the 5 .458’s I’ve had this just may be my favourite...
Straight out of the box it fed flawlessly, ejects perfectly and is accurate. It has nice deep blueing and is a rugged and dependable DG rifle.
This would be the last rifle I’d ever part with.

l have tried the Woodleigh 500gn PP in a couple of the .458’s l had (a custom CZ and a Winchester M70) but then I got talking to a well known Australian gun writer who has considerable experience with the .458.
He told me to skip the 500gn and go straight to the 550gn as they load easy in the .458 case.
l took his advice and I found that I could get 2080fps with the 550gn in my 24” barrel.
Someone I know has used these 550gn on Water Buffalo in the Northern Territory out of his .458 - going a nearly identical speed to mine and he says that they hit HARD.
They might be worth a try? Am happy to send you some if you want...

When I run out of 550gn Woodleigh‘s I think I’m going to try the CEB bullets...
PaulT and Michael458 have done enough to convince me that these are THE projectile to use.
The only problem is all these 550gn Woodleigh’s I’ve got to get through!

Kindest regards,

Russ

View attachment 405062

Badboy,
how far do you shoot with it (550 gn) ?
Have you measured the speed (2080) yourself ?
The case volume is already very low.
I get 2150 fps with a 480 gn bullet with an upper center charge.

Regards from the upper side of the world.
Foxi

 

[John Wasmuth]

fourfive8, good point. I have been told by a guy I trust, that the Peregrine BushMaster performs like a NF Cup Point solid. ( I used one once in a 375HH. It expanded a bit and held together perfectly. John sold NF Bullets to a Swede, as I remember. He will sell to N. America and probably still makes the NF CPS.

Forgive me if it was mentioned, but what single shot rifle were you using in the photographs?

 

[Brian]

John,
Thanks for the question. I like to talk about this rifle. It is a converted H&R , NEF 10 ga. shot gun with custom big bore barrels. 577NE and 50-110 Winchester with custom chamber, necked down to shoot the true .500 cal bullets as 500 S&W. A gunsmith did the barrel conversions and I did the stock work. The rattle-can paint job is my final "bubba" touch. It weighs 12 lbs. without the scope. It is safe to say that it is probably the cheapest 577NE that ever hunted Africa. ( chuckle.)

It is fine to shoot actually, with it's weight and straight stock, and it's very satisfying, the way it kills buffalo with the bullets I use. I have killed 7 cape buffalo with it, three with 700 gr cast bullets, all one shot kills at close range. With the 700 gr, 577NE Peregrine Bushmaster bullet and the 410gr CEB Raptors each buffalo was dead-right-there.
The CEB Raptor bullets defy conventional theory/concepts on terminal performance.

 

[John Wasmuth]

That’s what I thought it was. Great rifles. I have one in .45/70 that’s a beast and one very old .58 cal black powder rifle. The SB2 receivers can take some really impressive pressures. Thank you. Great read.

 

[Brian]

That’s what I thought it was. Great rifles. I have one in .45/70 that’s a beast and one very old .58 cal black powder rifle. The SB2 receivers can take some really impressive pressures. Thank you. Great read.

John,
Yes, the SBs receivers. The 45/ 70 is a great calibre for that rifle.
I will make a suggestion, like Captain Obvious. You can router/carve out a trough in the forend and fill it with 1/2 lb of epoxy ( or JB Weld) lead shot mix. It helps to hold the muzzle down during recoil and study during aiming.(No one but your hair dresser will know.)
You can add apiece of wood to the comb and shape the top of it to be parallel with the bore.
Bubba has spoken.

 

[John Wasmuth]

Thanks, I’ll give it a try!