Bullets For Buffalo

[TOBY458]

@Red Leg
Your statement is very sensible . A Gaur weighs about 1360 kilograms , while a really large African Cape buffalo weighs 770 kilograms ( or less ) . I prefer 500 grain solids for Gaur but when I used them on water buffalo in Australia , I was getting complete pass throughs ( which is risky , for obvious reasons ) . Therefore , I always use controlled expansion soft points for water buffalo . For the reasons that you noted , it is also what I will use on African Cape Buffalo in 2022 . I am partial to hand loaded 500 grain Rhino Solid Shanks ( which are solid only in name , but are actually designed to expand ) .

What velocity are you able to achieve in the 458 WM?

 

[Professor Mawla]

What velocity are you able to achieve in the 458 WM?

@TOBY458
With the 500 grain Rhino Solid Shank hand loads , I was able to achieve a velocity of 2093 feet per second . Perfectly adequate for broadside shots on Australian water buffalo , especially double lung shots . When hunting Gaur , I only use Hornady factory loaded 500 grain DGS meplat nosed steel jacketed solids which have an advertised velocity of 2140 fps ( feet per second ) . Actual velocity is 2133-2137 fps , which is perfectly adequate for all dangerous game . My .458 WM uses a 25 inch Douglas Premium barrel . Do you use IMR 3031 ?

 

[TOBY458]

@TOBY458
With the 500 grain Nosler Partition soft nosed hand loads , I was able to achieve a velocity of 2093 feet per second . My .458 WM uses a 25 inch Douglas Premium barrel . Do you use IMR 3031 ?

I haven't loaded for my 458 in awhile, but if I recall correctly, I used H335 for best velocities in this round. The Swift manual shows 2116 fps with their 500 gr A Frame bullet, from a 24" barrel. The last bullets I loaded for my 458 WM were 450 gr Barnes TSX. That gets the velocity up to 2250 or so, and I've read that these bullets perform very well on Buffalo, although I've never hunted Buffalo with a 458. I did however use Barnes 300 gr TSX in my 375 H&H to shoot three water buffalo and one Cape Buffalo. My loads were running 2450 FPS on the three water buffalo, and 2540 FPS on the Cape Buffalo. At 2450 FPS they killed the water buffalo very quickly and penetration was excellent. Expansion was excellent in some cases, and only acceptable in others. (Each buffalo was shot 3-4 times). I don't think any additional shots were needed, I just prefer to keep banging away until the buffalo goes down, if possible.
As for the Cape Buffalo, I made a very steep angling shot as the buff turned to run away and only hit one lung. We tracked the buffalo for over 5 miles before catching up to him. Bullet performance seemed fine on the one lung that was hit, however I never found the bullet to see how it expanded, as it ended up somewhere in the brisket and the skinners never recovered it.
I also shot a Cape Buffalo with a 416 Rem Mag. Using 400gr Swift A Frames at 2325 FPS. One frontal shot took out the heart and ended up in the rear of the buffalo, perfectly expanded.
I think for my future buffalo hunts, I will probably end up using Swift A Frame bullets simply due to the fact that they don't require high velocities in order to expand as required, and seem to perform perfectly at the 2150-2500 fps that most DG calibers achieve.

 

[Foxi]

Premium grade expanding bullets are the best option for buffalo, not solids of any design...

I politely disagree.
There are good reasons for the solid.
Especially if you have to shoot far or thick cover.
If a solid comes across, there is a deep hole in it, but this is not the case with an expanding bullet.
Almost all the old buffalos I have seen were found in dense stuff, so I prefer a solid.
The pieces we needed for the kitchen I shot all with solids.
Only good experiences with them.
And I wouldn't have got one buffalo without solid.
A bullet in the leg doesn't get any better with an expanding bullet.
Ive always both with me.

In principle I do what the PH wants, because I don't want that he is shooting also,if i do not follow his rules.
But there are not so less who prefer a solid for single pieces.
A war of faith, unfortunately too early for beer and chips
Foxi

 

[Brian]

I agree, Shooting buffalo out of a hide over a water hole is NOT "hunting" buffalo. It is "shooting" buffalo.

 

[Ryan]

I can vouch for the 300 grain Peregrine Bushmaster out of a 375 Ruger. This one went maybe 100 yards and piled up dead, though I put an insurance shot in him just in case. Though I didn't see any exit wound the bullet waa never found.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

A sample size of one, and a cow at that (though a large, old cow)...

325 grain Cutting Edge brass solids made for a Marlin 1895. Rifle was a Marlin 1895GBL. My own handloads. Frontal shot at 45 yards. She ran just 20 before falling over and giving a death moan.

 

[AZDAVE]

@Brian Thank you for sharing your testing, I have used the CEB solids but not the raptors. The swift aframes have been my soft of choice for a long time. Who did the barrel work on your HR handi? I have a HR buffalo classic that would be a nice base for a 50/90 50/110 conversion.

 

[MWK]

The Rhino is an excellent bullet though rare on this side of the Atlantic.

I have to agree with Red Leg. I took a Cape Buffalo with 400 grain Barnes TSX out of my 416 Lazzeroni loaded at 2,500 fps. It was a frontal shot and it was a solid hit after seeing the buff jumped. The buff only walked about 10 yards before collapsing. The skinner showed me the heart. It looks like someone use a knife to cut open the heart. The petal broke off and the shank was recovered near the tail side of the buff. My PH told me solid is for elephant, rhino, and hippo. I am reloading my 416 with 400 grain Hornady DGS for elephant next month.

 

[PaulT]

I do not consider shooting buffalo out of a hide over water with a rifle as hunting but to each there own..........

What a low class comment to make

 

[MMAL]

Shooting an animal from a blind over water is hunting. Please consider the young, handicap or older hunters with mobility issues. In your particular instance the level of difficultity may not suit you but by all means please do not take away from other people that would like to hunt.

For some bow hunters, rifle hunting would not be considered hunting. I could go on with examples but you get the point.

Hunting is a very personal thing and we all do it for different reasons but it is important for all of us to accept other hunters methods. Does not mean you have to do it that way but certainly do not give the antis any ammunition. That is why SA is about to ban lion hunting. And do you think they will stop there. After lions maybe another cute animal will be banned, say elephant or buffalo or sable. There is no stopping them.

 

[IvW]

What a low class comment to make

Low class comment??? Last time I checked we where entitled to our own opinions, I gave mine, you prefer sitting in a blind and shooting a buffalo from a blind over water or alfalfa, go ahead have fun enjoy, not my style or the way I prefer to hunt. In many places it is illegal, most dont care....I do, my opinion my choice, you want to pop them out a blind you are welcome to do so....

Any recommendations where I can do so in Zim, Tanzania or Zambia? I would like to add a bit of wild side but dinont want to walk or track?

 

[CoElkHunter]

I haven't loaded for my 458 in awhile, but if I recall correctly, I used H335 for best velocities in this round. The Swift manual shows 2116 fps with their 500 gr A Frame bullet, from a 24" barrel. The last bullets I loaded for my 458 WM were 450 gr Barnes TSX. That gets the velocity up to 2250 or so, and I've read that these bullets perform very well on Buffalo, although I've never hunted Buffalo with a 458. I did however use Barnes 300 gr TSX in my 375 H&H to shoot three water buffalo and one Cape Buffalo. My loads were running 2450 FPS on the three water buffalo, and 2540 FPS on the Cape Buffalo. At 2450 FPS they killed the water buffalo very quickly and penetration was excellent. Expansion was excellent in some cases, and only acceptable in others. (Each buffalo was shot 3-4 times). I don't think any additional shots were needed, I just prefer to keep banging away until the buffalo goes down, if possible.
As for the Cape Buffalo, I made a very steep angling shot as the buff turned to run away and only hit one lung. We tracked the buffalo for over 5 miles before catching up to him. Bullet performance seemed fine on the one lung that was hit, however I never found the bullet to see how it expanded, as it ended up somewhere in the brisket and the skinners never recovered it.
I also shot a Cape Buffalo with a 416 Rem Mag. Using 400gr Swift A Frames at 2325 FPS. One frontal shot took out the heart and ended up in the rear of the buffalo, perfectly expanded.
I think for my future buffalo hunts, I will probably end up using Swift A Frame bullets simply due to the fact that they don't require high velocities in order to expand as required, and seem to perform perfectly at the 2150-2500 fps that most DG calibers achieve.

"I just prefer to keep banging away until the buffalo goes down". Good choice! I've never hunted in Africa or have hunted buffalo or any other DG, but the same holds true with all game. I watched a hunting buddy shoot a cow elk in the left rear hind quarter (terrible, stupid shot!) with an '06. The cow went down, but he took his eye off the cow and she got up and ran and after looking for her for several hours over several miles, we couldn't find her. Probably a survivable shot, but NOT good and unnecessary. And, an elk isn't going to circle back and possibly try and kill you. So, I agree to keep shooting!

 

[PaulT]

Low class comment??? Last time I checked we where entitled to our own opinions, I gave mine, you prefer sitting in a blind and shooting a buffalo from a blind over water or alfalfa, go ahead have fun enjoy, not my style or the way I prefer to hunt. In many places it is illegal, most dont care....I do, my opinion my choice, you want to pop them out a blind you are welcome to do so....

Any recommendations where I can do so in Zim, Tanzania or Zambia? I would like to add a bit of wild side but dinont want to walk or track?

Yes, we are all entitled to voice our opinions, as i voiced mine on your low class comments.

You pretend to know what i prefer, really ? is that your ignorance, or your hurt ego talking.
You've never met me, don't know me and have no idea what i prefer.

Pretty brave remarks to make when hiding behind the anonimity of a internet alias.
Why don't you post your brave remarks and opinions on other peoples hunts under your proper name and the business name under which you operate. Show us your stones big guy.

You infer this practice is illegal. To the best of my knowledge this specific hunt was conducted in S.A, YOUR country, which not only condones this practice, and many others, but sanctions it BY LAW. NO ?

My apologies in advance.
I mistook you for a professional hunter.

My interpretation of someone of the title comes with the expectation that encompasses a little more than just a license.
A sense of decorum, respect and an ability to remain objective and serve the needs of the client.
This is not about you, it's about the client, after all HE is paying NOT YOU.
If it's legal, your's, AND MINE, opinion are irrelevant.
Don't like it then get the laws of YOUR country changed.

A wise old man once said to me that it is much better to sit quiet a look stupid than to open your mouth and remove all the doubt.

You seem to be lacking the limelight.

 

[Hallgeir Gravråk]

My Peregrine VRG 3. 300 grs VRG 3 caliber 375 H&H Mag, very good bullet in 375 caliber.
VRG 4 do not expand properly.

500 grs Barnes solid went thru the buffalo from behind, entered with the tailroot, found the bullet in the skin in the throat, he ran 40 meters.

Free roaming buffalo in Mozambique, 9 days hard work and tracking.

 

[IvW]

Yes, we are all entitled to voice our opinions, as i voiced mine on your low class comments.

You pretend to know what i prefer, really ? is that your ignorance, or your hurt ego talking.
You've never met me, don't know me and have no idea what i prefer.

Pretty brave remarks to make when hiding behind the anonimity of a internet alias.
Why don't you post your brave remarks and opinions on other peoples hunts under your proper name and the business name under which you operate. Show us your stones big guy.

You infer this practice is illegal. To the best of my knowledge this specific hunt was conducted in S.A, YOUR country, which not only condones this practice, and many others, but sanctions it BY LAW. NO ?

My apologies in advance.
I mistook you for a professional hunter.

My interpretation of someone of the title comes with the expectation that encompasses a little more than just a license.
A sense of decorum, respect and an ability to remain objective and serve the needs of the client.
This is not about you, it's about the client, after all HE is paying NOT YOU.
If it's legal, your's, AND MINE, opinion are irrelevant.
Don't like it then get the laws of YOUR country changed.

A wise old man once said to me that it is much better to sit quiet a look stupid than to open your mouth and remove all the doubt.

You seem to be lacking the

Yes, we are all entitled to voice our opinions, as i voiced mine on your low class comments.

You pretend to know what i prefer, really ? is that your ignorance, or your hurt ego talking.
You've never met me, don't know me and have no idea what i prefer.

Pretty brave remarks to make when hiding behind the anonimity of a internet alias.
Why don't you post your brave remarks and opinions on other peoples hunts under your proper name and the business name under which you operate. Show us your stones big guy.

You infer this practice is illegal. To the best of my knowledge this specific hunt was conducted in S.A, YOUR country, which not only condones this practice, and many others, but sanctions it BY LAW. NO ?

My apologies in advance.
I mistook you for a professional hunter.

My interpretation of someone of the title comes with the expectation that encompasses a little more than just a license.
A sense of decorum, respect and an ability to remain objective and serve the needs of the client.
This is not about you, it's about the client, after all HE is paying NOT YOU.
If it's legal, your's, AND MINE, opinion are irrelevant.
Don't like it then get the laws of YOUR country changed.

A wise old man once said to me that it is much better to sit quiet a look stupid than to open your mouth and remove all the doubt.

You seem to be lacking the limelight.

Stupid comments like this will make me leave this forum....

 

[IvW]

I do not consider shooting buffalo out of a hide over water with a rifle as hunting but to each there own..........

Premium grade expanding bullets are the best option for buffalo, not

 

[Badboymelvin]

@TOBY458
With the 500 grain Rhino Solid Shank hand loads , I was able to achieve a velocity of 2093 feet per second . Perfectly adequate for broadside shots on Australian water buffalo , especially double lung shots . When hunting Gaur , I only use Hornady factory loaded 500 grain DGS meplat nosed steel jacketed solids which have an advertised velocity of 2140 fps ( feet per second ) . Actual velocity is 2133-2137 fps , which is perfectly adequate for all dangerous game . My .458 WM uses a 25 inch Douglas Premium barrel . Do you use IMR 3031 ?

Are you able to get Woodleigh projectiles and ADI (Hodgdon) powder in you neck of the woods Professor Mawla?

l only ask as I’m loading the 550gn Woodleigh in front of 73gn of
ADI Benchmark 2 (Hodgdon BENCHMARK) powder in my .458WM and in my 24” barrel I’m getting a strong 2080fps.

In your 25” barrel you’ll probably be on 2100fps or possibly more - and that should be reasonably effective on your Gaur!

BTW the load I mentioned came directly from Geoff McDonald the owner of Woodleigh...

Cheers,

Russ

 

[Rule 303]

I am not keen on solids that fragment with bits flying off. The only solid I have used is the Woodleigh Hydro. I think it is a great bullet and performs better then standard solids. Reason is they are the only ones I have experience -limited that it is, with. 1 X cape Buff, 2X elephant and a few pigs at home. They shoot to the same point of impact as the Woodleigh soft nose bullets in my 416 Rigby, 375H&H, 35 Sambar, 358-338RUM, 35 Whelen, using the same powder charge as the soft nose. They just come out a bit faster than the soft nose.

I would like to try the Peregrine and some of the brass solids with a decent metplat.

To our two antagonists may I point out that this being a forum the conversations are had in text which can not portray the exactness of how some should come across. Also that both are/were PH's both of you have your own beliefs in all things and that you will not be sending Christmas cards to each other and leave it at that.

Huuumm, yes I am the Pot calling the Kettle , black.

For those who have never heard this expression it means I am being a bit hypocritical.

 

[PaulT]

Stupid comments like this will make me leave this forum....

Predictable reaction from those lacking stones, when challenged, is to want to run.