BC Outfitter Stole? my Deposit. Any Ideas?

[WAB]

My friend used a conniver on a vertical box set.

Conibear, spellcheck got me again!

 

[WAB]

@WAB: sorry about the tragic loss of your friend.
I admire anyone able to trap in “Winter conditions” - an art in itself and also the skill in being able to catch Wolverine with regularity. I also trap but fortunately don’t need to make a living at it (I’d starve), it is a hobby for me and I’m “self taught”. My Guide in Alaska was also a Trapper and he told me that Wolverine “fight a trap” harder then any other animal, they never tire and can actually pull/break some cheaper made foot traps apart - just from their relentless fighting the trap. I’m not sure what size trap he used for Wolverine but it was at least a #3 or larger….a lot of trap for an animal that only weighs #25 - #35lb.

Thanks @HankBuck. It was a rough night. We knew a plane was down on the Kustatan and he was late but it took hours to get a positive ID.

 

[WAB]

Only way

Yep, and then it’s not every trapper that can catch a wolverine.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Watching this post I see that there are several members who have a very good grasp of Canadian law.

I have a question if I do a posting on a members only web site that a non member stole a large sum of money from me and it was a false statement and I feel my reputation was damaged am I entitled to some reimbursement?

I ask this as a serious question. Wasn’t Donald Trump sued for a large sum of money for calling a woman a name.

It would seem to me that someone should be held liable?

I really would like to know.

Lon

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Watching this post I see that there are several members who have a very good grasp of Canadian law.

I have a question if I do a posting on a members only web site that a non member stole a large sum of money from me and it was a false statement and I feel my reputation was damaged am I entitled to some reimbursement?

I ask this as a serious question. Wasn’t Donald Trump sued for a large sum of money for calling a woman a name.

It would seem to me that someone should be held liable?

I really would like to know.

Lon

Perhaps. But the plaintiff needs to prove damages. I don't recall that the complainant in this case ever divulged the outfitter's name. Therefore, how could his reputation be damaged? In other threads names have been dropped. And that is fine as long as the complaint can be backed up with documentation. It's always better to just publish the documented facts and let the readers draw their own conclusions. Don't be attaching malicious labels. The readers can do that. They can't be identified = can't be sued for slander, etc.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I not sure if the outfitter co. name was stated, but I believer ownership was.

I would never accuse anyone of a crime in print unless I was 100% sure.

I have known a lot of dodgy opetators, but I believe I only mentioned one by name “Out of Africa” many people know the operators name. Events that took place made me loose a lot of respect for SCI.

Lon

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

I not sure if the outfitter co. name was stated, but I believer ownership was.

I would never accuse anyone of a crime in print unless I was 100% sure.

I have known a lot of dodgy opetators, but I believe I only mentioned one by name “Out of Africa” many people know the operators name. Events that took place made me loose a lot of respect for SCI.

Lon

Outfitters name is in the first post, person name appears later.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Outfitters name is in the first post, person name appears later.

How can there not be liability. Fortunately I think the outfitter is out there doing what he enjoys most hunting.

Lon

 

[Ontario Hunter]

How can there not be liability. Fortunately I think the outfitter is out there doing what he enjoys most hunting.

Lon

I think the outfitter sorting it out to satisfaction has only helped his reputation.

 

[JimP]

In the long run it comes down to poor communication on the outfitters part.

And the client getting eager and wanting to know details on a hunt that is a ways in the future.

I know that all of us start getting eager for a hunt that is upcoming and if there isn't any "right now" communication we will start to wonder. It is no different than safari operators that pretty much shut up shop in Africa from December to March when they are out on the show circuits and don't monitor their office emails.

 

[HankBuck]

@HankBuck, I grew up in Montana when they could be legally taken. Also I live in Northern Ontario where there are wolverine about (but not legal to harvest). I have seen one in Montana and three here locally. And I shoot trap/skeet with one of the ministry wolverine techs. The morning my wife found our son dead in bed I was on my way to help my best friend run his trap line. So yes, I know something of what I speak.

Wolverine have huge territories. They are roamers. Finding one can be a real challenge. I would imagine the outfitter has connections with the local trappers network (typically Native fellas) and they know where the wolverine are. If they can be shot, they can be trapped. But I'm sure the quota for each trapper is very limited. If he gets his quota (probably one), he'll need help getting rid of a raider. He takes more than his quota (which happens because only killer traps are allowed), he has to turn them over to ministry for nothing. So it's better to sell the information to an outfitter so he can get a client on the wolverine. Yes, it's gotta be baiting. Stalking one would be arduous work ... probably hundreds of miles on snowshoes.

One of my dad's best friends growing up in Montana was a trapper. He took an occasional wolverine and many cats. He had hounds for the cats but I don't believe he used them for wolverine. I seem to recall he trapped them. Eventually, when they went on the List, I remember seeing photos in the paper of ones he live trapped to relocate and/or for study. Ray said the buggers were the definition of mean. Scary mean.

@Ontario Hunter - the Question was about “HUNTING Wolverine” and based on your recommendation “find a trapper being raided” you know Nothing about Hunting Wolverine….few people do, I certainly don’t, but most admit they Know Nothing…. You grew up in Montana? Saw one? Friend was a Trapper? Funny.
It would be easier to find a Wolverine in Walmart then following your advice. But now, I’m being harsh and over stating the obvious. You can spin a yarn about whatever - it adds to the diversity of the Forum

 

[HankBuck]

Watching this post I see that there are several members who have a very good grasp of Canadian law.

I have a question if I do a posting on a members only web site that a non member stole a large sum of money from me and it was a false statement and I feel my reputation was damaged am I entitled to some reimbursement?

I ask this as a serious question. Wasn’t Donald Trump sued for a large sum of money for calling a woman a name.

It would seem to me that someone should be held liable?

I really would like to know.

Lon

@Tokoloshe Safaris - I think the OP did the right thing - posted details of a situation and had some concerns, shared with a large group of experienced hunters and outfitters, asked for opinions and possible advice regarding a course of action they could take. What better group to ask these questions to then AH? I can’t see anything wrong with what he did or how he went about it? “Liability” is for Courts to decide, can’t spend your life worrying about that - just do what you think is the “right thing” and follow your conscience.

 

[Hunt anything]

First off I know absolutely nothing about hunting wolverine.
It seems to me that it would be somewhat like hunting leopard. Find a moose or caribou carcass build a blind and camp out hoping a wolverine shows up. They are weasels (if I remember correctly) they will not turndown a free meal and will protect it against all comers.
I think someone mentioned running them with dogs, that is the last thing I would do. I’ve seen enough film of them liberating food from wolf packs and grizzly bears to know that that would be a bad idea. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

First off I know absolutely nothing about hunting wolverine.
It seems to me that it would be somewhat like hunting leopard. Find a moose or caribou carcass build a blind and camp out hoping a wolverine shows up. They are weasels (if I remember correctly) they will not turndown a free meal and will protect it against all comers.
I think someone mentioned running them with dogs, that is the last thing I would do. I’ve seen enough film of them liberating food from wolf packs and grizzly bears to know that that would be a bad idea. Just my 2 cents.

I think the running with dogs was in reference to Linx hunting.

 

[Hank2211]

As a (now non-practicing) Canadian lawyer, I can tell you the law is relatively clear. An allegation of criminal conduct that is untrue is prima facie defamatory. Unless you can point to an exception, a person making such an allegation, if untrue, would be liable for damages - and in many cases, especially when the reputation of a business is involved, damages will be assumed (without having to be actually proved). Proving damages can bump the quantum up substantially of course.

Having said that, in reading the OP’s initial post, I see no allegation of criminal conduct - those allegations came later, from other posters.

I’ve been a member of this forum for many years now and it’s interesting, at least to me, that so many people are ready to assume the worst in any given situation, based on so little. As I noted, the OP didn’t allege any criminal conduct - only that he’d made a deposit and was unable to contact the outfitter after many tries. And from that we got suggestions to sue, to get the police involved, to get the outfitters’ association involved, etc! Wow!

There are, of course, those who pointed out that there was as yet no crime committed here, and the facts disclosed didn’t even rise to the foundation for a civil claim. Good for them.

 

[Hunt anything]

As a (now non-practicing) Canadian lawyer, I can tell you the law is relatively clear. An allegation of criminal conduct that is untrue is prima facie defamatory. Unless you can point to an exception, a person making such an allegation, if untrue, would be liable for damages - and in many cases, especially when the reputation of a business is involved, damages will be assumed (without having to be actually proved). Proving damages can bump the quantum up substantially of course.

Having said that, in reading the OP’s initial post, I see no allegation of criminal conduct - those allegations came later, from other posters.

I’ve been a member of this forum for many years now and it’s interesting, at least to me, that so many people are ready to assume the worst in any given situation, based on so little. As I noted, the OP didn’t allege any criminal conduct - only that he’d made a deposit and was unable to contact the outfitter after many tries. And from that we got suggestions to sue, to get the police involved, to get the outfitters’ association involved, etc! Wow!

There are, of course, those who pointed out that there was as yet no crime committed here, and the facts disclosed didn’t even rise to the foundation for a civil claim. Good for them.

Good points but in the title he implied a theft and people jumped all over that.

 

[Hank2211]

Good points but in the title he implied a theft and people jumped all over that.

I’m not sure he implied it - the question mark suggested to me he wasn’t sure.

Either way, the facts as he related them didn’t give rise to a suggestion of a crime or even civil fraud, as many pointed out.

 

[Hunt anything]

Never even noticed the ? mark, whole new context.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

As a (now non-practicing) Canadian lawyer, I can tell you the law is relatively clear. An allegation of criminal conduct that is untrue is prima facie defamatory. Unless you can point to an exception, a person making such an allegation, if untrue, would be liable for damages - and in many cases, especially when the reputation of a business is involved, damages will be assumed (without having to be actually proved). Proving damages can bump the quantum up substantially of course.

Having said that, in reading the OP’s initial post, I see no allegation of criminal conduct - those allegations came later, from other posters.

I’ve been a member of this forum for many years now and it’s interesting, at least to me, that so many people are ready to assume the worst in any given situation, based on so little. As I noted, the OP didn’t allege any criminal conduct - only that he’d made a deposit and was unable to contact the outfitter after many tries. And from that we got suggestions to sue, to get the police involved, to get the outfitters’ association involved, etc! Wow!

There are, of course, those who pointed out that there was as yet no crime committed here, and the facts disclosed didn’t even rise to the foundation for a civil claim. Good for them.

Thank you for your educated, professional advice. When someone post that an individual or business stole money from them and it is false is that person not held accountable?

The bat part of this is forever the internet.

Once upon a time a organization that had a grudge did a posting where if you posted my name it came up along side of lion poaching something I knew nothing about and had no involvement with.

Cheers, Lon

 

[dchum]

Napoleon Dynamite spent a summer hunting wolverines. Got like 50 of em…

He even gives advice on what type of firearms he recommends

Just trying to lighten the mood with my favorite stupid movie