BC Outfitter Stole? my Deposit. Any Ideas?

[375 Ruger Fan]

Yes. He KNEW when he took your $$$$ that it'd cost more to try and get a refund through the justice system. I would simply report him, file the court claim (follow through electronically-don't waste any more $ on barristers, etc.) and show him as much love as possible on-line to ensure he never does business again. Set up auto replies to his website, e-m, i-m, text, phone....Let Freedom (from these F's) Ring! I had a lot more stolen by African Americans throughout my life in the former, now industrial armpits of the USA.

@C.W. Richter at this point in time, I would argue that your advice to the OP is not a good course of action. The outfitter has NOT stolen the $1k deposit for a hunt that is 6 months in the future. If that date comes and goes, then he is guilty of a crime. As of now, it is simply a case or poor communication, which isn't a crime but is a poor way to conduct business.

About 6 months ago, I booked a hunt for Arizona in 2025. Sent the check and signed contract and then heard nothing from the outfitter. Called, texted, emailed, nothing. I was getting a little concerned, but knew this guy had been in business a long time and had lots of good references (a few from AH members). After a few weeks, the outfitter called and explained a relative had died. Both he and the relative are ranchers and he had to go help the relatives family with their ranching activities, plus do his own ranching work. Simply not enough hours in a day.

 

[HankBuck]

I am hoping that someone on this forum may be an outfitter and have some idea beyond what I have already thought of or may be a Canadian citizen that can point me toward some Government entity that can help. I have booked and taken dozens of guided hunts in my lifetime without ever having any issues of this nature before. This problem has me stumped. In December of 2023 I contacted Fire Mountain Outfitters in BC about a Wolverine hunt. We agreed on a winter 2025 date. He sent me a contract and I sent him a $1000.00 deposit to secure the hunt. Almost four months later in March I emailed him to ask a question and I got no reply. Not wanting to be a bother I let it go. I waited maybe 4-6 weeks then emailed again and once again I got no reply. After another couple weeks I tried calling and got no return phone call. I have now sent five emails with the last one asking for my deposit to be returned with no replies at all. I reached out to another BC outfitter that I have hunted with to see if maybe the guy died or went out of business and he stated that he was not aware of anything like that. It seems that Fire Mountain took my deposit, maybe changed his mind about the hunt and has no intention of returning it. Any ideas?

@JeffUSMC - You’ve certainly been patient and given this Outfitter plenty of time to reply. I’ve noticed that “some” Outfitters reply faster “before” you book the Hunt and afterwards they respond at a more leisurely pace. If I was in your position I would also want my deposit back - this would be a warning sign of More bad things to follow. I would also look for and book with another Outfitter asap and ask that Outfitter for advice on how to recoup your deposit - I believe BC Guide's are licensed and whatever organization issues those licenses would be worth contacting. Others on this Forum will likely be more helpful and give you specific contact info.
Good luck, it is fortunate that you only have $1000 lost….not that that’s nothing but it’s far better then having lost a 50% deposit.

 

[C.W. Richter]

@C.W. Richter at this point in time, I would argue that your advice to the OP is not a good course of action. The outfitter has NOT stolen the $1k deposit for a hunt that is 6 months in the future. If that date comes and goes, then he is guilty of a crime. As of now, it is simply a case or poor communication, which isn't a crime but is a poor way to conduct business.

About 6 months ago, I booked a hunt for Arizona in 2025. Sent the check and signed contract and then heard nothing from the outfitter. Called, texted, emailed, nothing. I was getting a little concerned, but knew this guy had been in business a long time and had lots of good references (a few from AH members). After a few weeks, the outfitter called and explained a relative had died. Both he and the relative are ranchers and he had to go help the relatives family with their ranching activities, plus do his own ranching work. Simply not enough hours in a day.

I realize construction contractors do this sort of thing ALL the time! They disappear, and then re-surface (using your money all the while!)

 

[Graham Hunter]

Jeff at this point nothing has been stolen! The only thing you have lost is communication. Hopefully with some effort you can restore that.

 

[deewayne2003]

@JeffUSMC

What’s your time worth? Because by the time your done with small claims court or any other legal means of recourse you will wish you had kissed that $1K goodbye…. And that’s assuming you win.

I’ve done at least 6 trips to Canada and after my last trip to Ontario I decided that there were more deserving places to spend my money.

 

[HankBuck]

@JeffUSMC

What’s your time worth? Because by the time your done with small claims court or any other legal means of recourse you will wish you had kissed that $1K goodbye…. And that’s assuming you win.

I’ve done at least 6 trips to Canada and after my last trip to Ontario I decided that there were more deserving places to spend my money.

@deewayne2003 - I get the logic behind you considering “what’s your time worth?”.
In this case, where the OP may have been ripped off, I would also consider Not allowing myself to be taken advantage of…at least not without some effort to get my money back. Also I want to send-a-message to the person that ripped me off. It would become my “hobby” to go after someone that ripped me off and if it cost me $2000 to get back my $1000 - that would be worth it. It is Not a business decision it is a matter of “What’s right”. I realize many will not agree and it does indicate I allow emotions to get in the way of more fact based financial decisions — but that’s my decision. In the end, If i recover my money or Not and just make the THIEF “miserable” then it’s Mission Accomplished and provides ME the same satisfaction as taking any nice “Trophy”….(Trophies cost $$).

 

[sureshot375]

@deewayne2003 - I get the logic behind you considering “what’s your time worth?”.
In this case, where the OP may have been ripped off, I would also consider Not allowing myself to be taken advantage of…at least not without some effort to get my money back. Also I want to send-a-message to the person that ripped me off. It would become my “hobby” to go after someone that ripped me off and if it cost me $2000 to get back my $1000 - that would be worth it. It is Not a business decision it is a matter of “What’s right”. I realize many will not agree and it does indicate I allow emotions to get in the way of more fact based financial decisions — but that’s my decision. In the end, If i recover my money or Not and just make the THIEF “miserable” then it’s Mission Accomplished and provides ME the same satisfaction as taking any nice “Trophy”….(Trophies cost $$).

As an attorney, I have to disagree with you. There is not a chance in the world that I would devote my time and energy into any kind of litigation over a grand. My time, energy, and emotions wasted on that venture are a much higher costs.

I also just really don’t get the vibe that there is an actual scam going on here. Poor communication maybe, but a scam doesn’t really seem likely to me. If he was really concerned about scamming you out of a grand, I feel like he would respond to your emails.

These people seem reputable. My guess is if you live in that part of the world, you probably have to make a lot of stuff happen in a short summer. They may not have cell service all the time. It’s not an ideal way to run a business, but there are lots of other possibilities other than some nefarious motive.

I feel like I saw them at SCI.

Op, Have you text the numbers on their website?

 

[JimP]

As has been mentioned, all this BS about filing a small claims action and saying that the OP was scammed is at least 5 or 6 months premature.

At most right now the outfitter is a poor business man for not responding to emails or phone calls, that doesn't make him a scammer.

As for the hunt, I believe that it could be one of the hardest hunts othere for a very elusive animal. I asked my guide when I was on my Grizzly hunt about a wolverine and he said that he hadn't seen one in a dozen years but does come across their tracks. And he is in his hunting area for 6+ months a year starting with spring bear hunts and ending when the snow finishes his deer, elk, and moose hunts. But then he has snowmobile tours during the winter

 

[deewayne2003]

@deewayne2003 - I get the logic behind you considering “what’s your time worth?”.
In this case, where the OP may have been ripped off, I would also consider Not allowing myself to be taken advantage of…at least not without some effort to get my money back. Also I want to send-a-message to the person that ripped me off. It would become my “hobby” to go after someone that ripped me off and if it cost me $2000 to get back my $1000 - that would be worth it. It is Not a business decision it is a matter of “What’s right”. I realize many will not agree and it does indicate I allow emotions to get in the way of more fact based financial decisions — but that’s my decision. In the end, If i recover my money or Not and just make the THIEF “miserable” then it’s Mission Accomplished and provides ME the same satisfaction as taking any nice “Trophy”….(Trophies cost $$).

@HankBuck - I fully understand where you are coming from; because I've been down that road myself with suing a gunsmith.

Thread 'AVOID Gunsmith quicksand!...Classic Barrel & Gunworks: Prescott Arizona: Dan Pedersen'

Aug 15, 2022

Gentlemen,

No matter how embarrassing it may be, I feel it is my responsibility to convey my experience with Dan Pedersen of CLASSIC BARREL & GUNWORKS in Prescott Arizona; so that others may avoid the quicksand I am currently trapped in.

January 2021: I called Classic Barrel and Gunworks to inquire about having a rifle converted to .404J and to my surprise the owner Dan Pedersen himself picked up the phone after only a couple of rings and we began discussing the project.....

BRNO ZKK602 .375H&H - Rebore & rechamber to .404J, open the bolt face accordingly, feed/function work on the...

• deewayne2003
• Replies: 60
• Forum: Gunsmithing

• 
• 
• 

I've also been through this with evicting a couple of tenants from rental properties as well as a contractor who did laughably shoddy work; the lesson I learned is that you can get justice and make examples all you want to but you have to weigh the time value.... because all we really have in this world is our time on it.

Further more my advice and what time is worth comment comes from a place of having dealt with similar issues.... it's easy to wave the battle flag of vengeance when you've never dealt with the consequences of such.

 

[HankBuck]

As an attorney, I have to disagree with you. There is not a chance in the world that I would devote my time and energy into any kind of litigation over a grand. My time, energy, and emotions wasted on that venture are a much higher costs.

I also just really don’t get the vibe that there is an actual scam going on here. Poor communication maybe, but a scam doesn’t really seem likely to me. If he was really concerned about scamming you out of a grand, I feel like he would respond to your emails.

These people seem reputable. My guess is if you live in that part of the world, you probably have to make a lot of stuff happen in a short summer. They may not have cell service all the time. It’s not an ideal way to run a business, but there are lots of other possibilities other than some nefarious motive.

I feel like I saw them at SCI.

Op, Have you text the numbers on their website?

@sureshot375: I agree with you that litigation over a $1000 is unlikely to be a smart move and also agree that this may not be a Scam….but the guy is still likely to be out of his $1000 and can’t wait until the last minute to realize his “hunt” might not take place. As far as excusing this Guide/Outfitter’s lack of communication to his “short Summer/lots of stuff happening” or “may not have cell service”? Ridiculous - never an excuse for poor communication, he communicated just fine in order to get his deposit - so he has the ability but Now he doesn’t care and that attitude could carry into his effort in guiding your hunt (if Your Hunt ever takes place?). I would still do whatever I could to make this Guide/Outfitters life MISERABLE - at least “a $1000 worth of FUN”

 

[C.W. Richter]

@sureshot375: I agree with you that litigation over a $1000 is unlikely to be a smart move and also agree that this may not be a Scam….but the guy is still likely to be out of his $1000 and can’t wait until the last minute to realize his “hunt” might not take place. As far as excusing this Guide/Outfitter’s lack of communication to his “short Summer/lots of stuff happening” or “may not have cell service”? Ridiculous - never an excuse for poor communication, he communicated just fine in order to get his deposit - so he has the ability but Now he doesn’t care and that attitude could carry into his effort in guiding your hunt (if Your Hunt ever takes place?). I would still do whatever I could to make this Guide/Outfitters life MISERABLE - at least “a $1000 worth of FUN”

He'll come back 'round when the Labatt's runs out! He might just be doing the important work of Trudeau at the moment....LOL Statistically, there's a 50% minimum chance you'll get your money's worth, and we are rooting for you! (That $1K under Biden-Harris became $850 last week!)

 

[sureshot375]

@sureshot375: I agree with you that litigation over a $1000 is unlikely to be a smart move and also agree that this may not be a Scam….but the guy is still likely to be out of his $1000 and can’t wait until the last minute to realize his “hunt” might not take place. As far as excusing this Guide/Outfitter’s lack of communication to his “short Summer/lots of stuff happening” or “may not have cell service”? Ridiculous - never an excuse for poor communication, he communicated just fine in order to get his deposit - so he has the ability but Now he doesn’t care and that attitude could carry into his effort in guiding your hunt (if Your Hunt ever takes place?). I would still do whatever I could to make this Guide/Outfitters life MISERABLE - at least “a $1000 worth of FUN”

I agree. Really not good business practices by the outfitter. But I still really don’t feel like there is a scam here, but who knows.

As far as making someone’s life miserable, you and I have different definitions of fun. Lol.

 

[HankBuck]

He'll come back 'round when the Labatt's runs out! He might just be doing the important work of Trudeau at the moment....LOL Statistically, there's a 50% minimum chance you'll get your money's worth, and we are rooting for you! (That $1K under Biden-Harris became $850 last week!)

@C.W. Richter —- you can always just Stop by the Outfitters house - unexpected…knock on the door “Hi, I was in the area and thought I’d pick up my $1000 deposit”. But, be ready for a less then friendly welcome

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

@C.W. Richter —- you can always just Stop by the Outfitters house - unexpected…knock on the door “Hi, I was in the area and thought I’d pick up my $1000 deposit”. But, be ready for a less then friendly welcome

You mean when you are passing through Atlin, BC…….

 

[HankBuck]

You mean when you are passing through Atlin, BC…….

Yep, might be a bit out of your way —- worth the drive

 

[C.W. Richter]

@C.W. Richter —- you can always just Stop by the Outfitters house - unexpected…knock on the door “Hi, I was in the area and thought I’d pick up my $1000 deposit”. But, be ready for a less then friendly welcome

LOL that'd cost more than $1K for me and my hands would be tied with respect to firearm choices. Still says a lot about the guy that graciously accepted money from me...

 

[mooze]

just a couple of local comments,
Aitlin had an early fire season again this year and they are in the thick of it. Even the Yukon River Qest Canoe race was halted for a fire. The year before was historic for fires. He may be dealing with disruptions to his hunting area that we have no idea off. This is a reputable longstanding outfit. Bad communication aside, he may have some bigger fish to fry.
Also, before going legal, try GOABC, they have a pretty good handle on their members and do not like bad PR.
fire map for illustration

 

[Ridge Runner]

Since COVID the courts have made allowances for appearance by zoom. I have made numerous zoom appearances re my Ontario Superior Court claim for my son's death due to medical malpractice. He should check with local court.

Condolences to you and your family on your loss.

May he Rest In Peace knowing you are seeking justice on his behalf.

 

[JeffUSMC]

The outfitter in question has contacted me. I will begin by stating that I received a full refund of my deposit this morning via wire transfer into my checking account and I thank him for that. Out of respect for him and our discussion I am not going to divulge details here except to say that he stated he did not receive any of my communications over the last 5-6 months. He did however receive my email that included the link to this post and he called me as soon as he received it and promptly refunded my deposit. We agreed that it would be best to go our separate ways amicably. Thank you all.

 

[LivingTheDream]

The outfitter in question has contacted me. I will begin by stating that I received a full refund of my deposit this morning via wire transfer into my checking account and I thank him for that. Out of respect for him and our discussion I am not going to divulge details here except to say that he stated he did not receive any of my communications over the last 5-6 months. He did however receive my email that included the link to this post and he called me as soon as he received it and promptly refunded my deposit. We agreed that it would be best to go our separate ways amicably. Thank you all.

Glad to hear it all worked out! Good luck when you go on your Wolverine hunt!