BC Outfitter Stole? my Deposit. Any Ideas?

[Rem280]

Actually I need to correct a typo that is relevant to the story. The hunt is / was booked for winter of 2025. Not 2026. The hunt is supposed to take place in about 6-7 months. I mistakenly typed the incorrect year. This is why I am seeking advice now because the time is quickly approaching. Sorry for the mistake.

Any social media presence? Maybe try there?

 

[Aaron N]

Check with the GOABC. If he is a licensed Outfitter he will be bonded. They can help you retrieve your deposit. I was a member so my info is pretty solid.

This is where I would try as well. Maybe the association can get the two parties back in touch

 

[Nevada Wapati]

Don't give up trying to get a hold of them. Try all three of their phone numbers. They are one of the premier BC outfitters hunting a great area. You could even try contacting Rena's parents (Ron & Brenda) who operate Love Bros & Lee Outfitters, also in BC.

Best of luck.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I thought of one other reason why you aren’t hearing from them: they are busy and off the grid. Not a great way to run a business, but they may be short handed. It’s sheep season in August. They might have been busy in July with logistics, preparing the remote camps, etc. I looked at their website and they look like a good outfit. Keep trying to contact them and I would suggest you refrain from the claim that they stole your deposit. They have not. They are only guilty of poor communication, at this point.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Apples and oranges superior court is not small claims , Canadian law clearly state either the plaintiffs or agent on the plaintiffs behalf must present grievance in the district the defendant resides in or conducts business in. He could give testimony remotely via zoom if he had a representative acting on his behalf in Canada.

Canadian law does not govern provincial court procedures. Provinces control their own small claims courts. OP should check with the local small claims court if he wants to pursue that avenue. No lawyer would take a thousand dollar claim. No lawyer worth a crap anyway. Lawyer fees would be more than a judgment. Hell, I couldn't find a lawyer in Canada to take a malpractice claim for a dead teen boy. Not enough money in it. Sure, they can bill out their hours. Then client takes the lawyer to assessment court to have the bill adjusted to something fair. Big hassle for lawyer and account is almost always reduced. So they only want to work for contingency percentage. They get 35% no questions asked. 35% of a dead boy wouldn't pay for the medical experts let alone lawyer's fee. 35% of a claim for a birth defect baby will buy the lawyer a home on the beach in Hawaii.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Canadian law does not govern provincial court procedures. Provinces control their own small claims courts. OP should check with the local small claims court if he wants to pursue that avenue. No lawyer would take a thousand dollar claim. No lawyer worth a crap anyway. Lawyer fees would be more than a judgment. Hell, I couldn't find a lawyer in Canada to take a malpractice claim for a dead teen boy. Not enough money in it. Sure, they can bill out their hours. Then client takes the lawyer to assessment court to have the bill adjusted to something fair. Big hassle for lawyer and account is almost always reduced. So they only want to work for contingency percentage. They get 35% no questions asked. 35% of a dead boy wouldn't pay for the medical experts let alone lawyer's fee. 35% of a claim for a birth defect baby will buy the lawyer a home on the beach in Hawaii.

I never said it was viable I said in order to proceed he would either need to be in Canada of have an agent in Canada acting on his behalf. You cannot start small claims proceedings against a Canadian defendant without yourself or an agent on your behalf being in Canada not that hard to comprehend.
I took the time to look it up before responding to you because most of my knowledge is in maritime law and Nova Scotia and I know your an argumentative old codger with nothing better to do than argue and attempt to make every thread your involved in about yourself.

Neither one of us is qualified to offer legal advice which is another reason I mentioned legal counsel in the district in question i then deferred to the members of our community who actually have local knowledge.

 

[Mekaniks]

Have you tried these two cell phone numbers??? I got them off their website.......

Brandon Cell: (780) 228-3448
Rena Cell: (780) 933-6859

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I never said it was viable I said in order to proceed he would either need to be in Canada of have an agent in Canada acting on his behalf. You cannot start small claims proceedings against a Canadian defendant without yourself or an agent on your behalf being in Canada not that hard to comprehend.
I took the time to look it up before responding to you because most of my knowledge is in maritime law and Nova Scotia and I know your an argumentative old codger with nothing better to do than argue and attempt to make every thread your involved in about yourself.

Neither one of us is qualified to offer legal advice which is another reason I mentioned legal counsel in the district in question i then deferred to the members of our community who actually have local knowledge.

Anyone can pick up the small claims forms at our courthouse and file the claim. By mail, by having the wife drop it off, a lawyer, whomever. The claim and supporting affidavit must be signed by claimant and signature duly witnessed. And recently even that can be filed electronically. Pay the filing fee, also electronically, and away ya go. Lawyers almost never file the claims. Their staff do it. And they fill out the claims. And they interview the claimants. I oughtta know. I was a law clerk here for five years in a litigation firm while doing my masters degree.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Anyone can pick up the small claims forms at our courthouse and file the claim. By mail, by having the wife drop it off, a lawyer, whomever. The claim and supporting affidavit must be signed by claimant and signature duly witnessed. And recently even that can be filed electronically. Pay the filing fee, also electronically, and away ya go. Lawyers almost never file the claims. Their staff do it. And they fill out the claims. And they interview the claimants. I oughtta know. I was a law clerk here for five years in a litigation firm while doing my masters degree.

For the last time I’m going to explain it to you as per the bc small claims act. A foreign citizen cannot bring before the court a grievance in small claims without him/her self being in Canada and the district the defendant resides in or having an agent act on there behalf in the district the resides in. It’s one of the qualifications to having a legitimate recognized grievance to qualify for small claims court.

I can’t make it any simpler than that for you it’s right in the act which is the documents a court clerk is going to weigh a claim against before allowing it to move forward in the court system.

Regardless of what either of us think neither of us is qualified to give legal advice and all we are doing is confusing the thread and distracting from the original posters issues.

Why don’t you regal us with a story about your ability to defecate on paper plates or your amazing ability to hit running animals. That should serve to completely derail the thread.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

I apologize @JeffUSMC it seems another forum member and I have turned your thread into a pissing match I intend to refrain from replying any further to said member in an effort to keep your thread on your issues. Best of luck which ever course you choose.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

For the last time I’m going to explain it to you as per the bc small claims act. A foreign citizen cannot bring before the court a grievance in small claims without him/her self being in Canada and the district the defendant resides in or having an agent act on there behalf in the district the resides in. It’s one of the qualifications to having a legitimate recognized grievance to qualify for small claims court.

I can’t make it any simpler than that for you it’s right in the act which is the documents a court clerk is going to weigh a claim against before allowing it to move forward in the court system.

Regardless of what either of us think neither of us is qualified to give legal advice and all we are doing is confusing the thread and distracting from the original posters issues.

Why don’t you regal us with a story about your ability to defecate on paper plates or your amazing ability to hit running animals. That should serve to completely derail the thread.

First you say this is a federal regulation. Now it's supposed to be in the BC Small Claims Act. Right.

The claim must be filed in the local B.C. court closest to where the debt dispute was incurred and/or where B.C. resident  defendant lives. There is nothing in the regulations requiring the plaintiff to personally appear at that court to initiate the claim. Or anything about the plaintiff required to be Canadian to be self-representing. Regs specifically state that a small claim can be mailed to the court registrar to start an action.

Small claims - making a claim for proceedings initiated in small claims court

This guide will help to answer questions and provide steps to initiating a small claims proceeding.

www2.gov.bc.ca

Perhaps you should change your canteen beverage to mineral water. The hard stuff seems to have addled your thinking cap.

 

[sureshot375]

My guess is it’s a communication/email issue. I wouldn’t go calling lawyers just yet. Most people in that industry don’t live at their keyboards.

Try calling or texting the phone numbers on their website which someone else posted above.

This doesn’t really sound like someone trying to con you out of 1k.

Besides, how are you going to prove they breached a contract for a hunt that doesn’t take place until next year??

 

[C.W. Richter]

Small Claims Court. Here in Ontario small claims could run up to $16K (,last I knew anyway). The paperwork can be filed by individual. Don't know about BC but here courts are very tech advanced. Often claims can be handled by zoom appearances. I would suggest contacting the local provincial court. Serve the guy with a claim and that will usually wake him up.

Did you pay with credit card? If you did contact your credit card company. They may reverse the payment if services are not forthcoming.

Yes. He KNEW when he took your $$$$ that it'd cost more to try and get a refund through the justice system. I would simply report him, file the court claim (follow through electronically-don't waste any more $ on barristers, etc.) and show him as much love as possible on-line to ensure he never does business again. Set up auto replies to his website, e-m, i-m, text, phone....Let Freedom (from these F's) Ring! I had a lot more stolen by African Americans throughout my life in the former, now industrial armpits of the USA.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I apologize @JeffUSMC it seems another forum member and I have turned your thread into a pissing match I intend to refrain from replying any further to said member in an effort to keep your thread on your issues. Best of luck which ever course you choose.

No derailment. I suggested the OP consider initiating an action in small claims court to wake up this outfitter. You told him it can't be done and in support spouted all sorts of unsupported "information." I was surprised to learn that in B.C. claims up to $35K can be made in "small" claims court. Wow! It would not surprise me if cross-border contractors are frequently in B.C. small claims courts and either do the claims themselves or via paralegals. That is the whole idea behind small claims court: circumvent the lawyers and free up courtrooms for bigger claims that will require more time.

I would suggest you send (email) the outfitter a demand letter. Tell him he can respond and/or refund or you will take legal action. If you engaged a lawyer, I can tell you with all certainty that would be his first step (I probably wrote a hundred demand letters). Then the lawyer would bill you $500. Cash cow. Conclude the letter with "Govern yourself accordingly." That's kind of a code indicating you probably have a lawyer lurking in the shadows.

Did you sign a contract?

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

First you say this is a federal regulation. Now it's supposed to be in the BC Small Claims Act. Right.

The claim must be filed in the local B.C. court closest to where the debt dispute was incurred and/or where B.C. resident  defendant lives. There is nothing in the regulations requiring the plaintiff to personally appear at that court to initiate the claim. Or anything about the plaintiff required to be Canadian to be self-representing. Regs specifically state that a small claim can be mailed to the court registrar to start an action.

Small claims - making a claim for proceedings initiated in small claims court

This guide will help to answer questions and provide steps to initiating a small claims proceeding.

www2.gov.bc.ca

Perhaps you should change your canteen beverage to mineral water. The hard stuff seems to have addled your thinking cap.

You’re still missing the point the claim that he was defrauded of 1000$ must be made on Canadian soil to be brought before a small claims court in Canada by the plaintiffs or an agent there of. The claim is not the filing of papers it is the statement of defraudment. One of the requirements is the claim be made in Canada or it is not subject to small claims court.

The defendant only has to address in small claims court claims made in Canada.

You or a monkey could file the papers via mail email or smoke signals but if the plaintiff is in the states and no one is acting as his agent on Canadian soil it’s subject to dismissal.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I apologize @JeffUSMC it seems another forum member and I have turned your thread into a pissing match I intend to refrain from replying any further to said member in an effort to keep your thread on your issues. Best of luck which ever course you choose.

No derailment. I suggested the OP consider initiating an action in small claims court to wake up this outfitter. You told him it can't be done and in support spouted all sorts of unsupported "information." I was surprised to learn that in B.C. claims up to $35K can be made in "small" claims court. Wow! It would not surprise me if cross-border contractors are frequently in B.C. small claims courts and either do the claims themselves or via paralegals. That is the whole idea behind small claims court: circumvent the lawyers and free up courtrooms for bigger claims that will require more time.

I would suggest you send the outfitter a demand letter. Tell him he can respond and/or refund or you will take legal action. If you engaged a lawyer, I can tell you with all certainty that would be his first step (I probably wrote a hundred demand letters). Then the lawyer would bill you $500. Conclude the letter with "Govern yourself accordingly." That's kind of a code indicating you probably have a lawyer lurking in the shadows.

Did you sign a contract?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

You’re still missing the point the claim that he was defrauded of 1000$ must be made on Canadian soil to be brought before a small claims court in Canada by the plaintiffs or an agent there of. The claim is not the filing of papers it is the statement of defraudment. One of the requirements is the claim be made in Canada or it is not subject to small claims court.

The defendant only has to address in small claims court claims made in Canada.

You or a monkey could file the papers via mail email or smoke signals but if the plaintiff is in the states and no one is acting as his agent on Canadian soil it’s subject to dismissal.

Well, of course the claim is in Canada. The outfitter resides in Canada. The hunt is/was supposed to take place in Canada. Makes no difference where the plaintiff resides. The defendant's action precipitating the claim took place in Canada. That's why the claim will be filed in the B.C. Small Claims Court. Doesn't make any difference who the claimant is (as long as he/she is of legal age) or where he/she resides. Anyone anywhere can download the forms, fill them out, and file the claim with filing fee in that court. I provided you with the instructions from BC govt website on how to file a claim. He can do it easily enough from wherever he lives.

I am concerned that he may not actually have a claim ... yet. The hunt was supposed to be during the coming year as I understand it. He may not legally have a claim until  after the outfitter fails to come through with the hunt. But how can OP book travel if he doesn't know when the hunt is supposed to take place? That should be part of the demand letter. Failing to provide a date for the hunt in a timely fashion should invalidate any agreement when deposit was made.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

No derailment. I suggested the OP consider initiating an action in small claims court to wake up this outfitter. You told him it can't be done and in support spouted all sorts of unsupported "information." I was surprised to learn that in B.C. claims up to $35K can be made in "small" claims court. Wow! It would not surprise me if cross-border contractors are frequently in B.C. small claims courts and either do the claims themselves or via paralegals. That is the whole idea behind small claims court: circumvent the lawyers and free up courtrooms for bigger claims that will require more time.

I would suggest you send the outfitter a demand letter. Tell him he can respond and/or refund or you will take legal action. If you engaged a lawyer, I can tell you with all certainty that would be his first step (I probably wrote a hundred demand letters). Then the lawyer would bill you $500. Conclude the letter with "Govern yourself accordingly." That's kind of a code indicating you probably have a lawyer lurking in the shadows.

Did you sign a contract?

Which is a poor suggestion without speaking to legal counsel to see if he has a viable claim. Which I don’t believe he does until such time as the outfitter doesn’t meet his obligations.

I’ve admitted several times I’m not qualified to give legal advice I’m working out of an inherited set of legal texts 30 years out of date with only a few courses mostly pretending to maritime law. WHICH IS WHY RECOMMENDED HE SPEAKS TO LEGAL COUNSEL. Which unless you’re claiming the title esquire you also are not.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

And regardless of all the back and forth between you and I @Ontario Hunter @Graham Hunter still provided him with the best corse of action because he has the local knowledge. Which is what I said three hours ago.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

No derailment. I suggested the OP consider initiating an action in small claims court to wake up this outfitter. You told him it can't be done and in support spouted all sorts of unsupported "information." I was surprised to learn that in B.C. claims up to $35K can be made in "small" claims court. Wow! It would not surprise me if cross-border contractors are frequently in B.C. small claims courts and either do the claims themselves or via paralegals. That is the whole idea behind small claims court: circumvent the lawyers and free up courtrooms for bigger claims that will require more time.

I would suggest you send the outfitter a demand letter. Tell him he can respond and/or refund or you will take legal action. If you engaged a lawyer, I can tell you with all certainty that would be his first step (I probably wrote a hundred demand letters). Then the lawyer would bill you $500. Conclude the letter with "Govern yourself accordingly." That's kind of a code indicating you probably have a lawyer lurking in the shadows.

Did you sign a contract?

As for unsupported information it’s kind of hard to drag copy past a link to this

small claims act revised status 1989