45-70 for dangerous game?

[1:66 twiste@d]

We "bust a cap" on those SOB's every chance we get.

Most of Alaska is now 2-5 black bear, 10 wolves, 1-2 brown bear.

 

[michael458]

Don't feel bad about the wolf... that feeling would go away if you watched wolves yank a calf moose out of a cow giving birth while she is running to escape.

Oh I know these things, but was too much like other canine friends I had........ No, I know, but just saying...........

Right, and black bears are even worse. Its funny in a sick way, hunters will spend big money to hunt deer, moose and caribou. But when it comes time to thin out the predator population most won't even consider it.

Oh no worries, I shot plenty of black and brown bears, leopard, lions, Cougars, and probably others, never a concern or any feelings at all...... I just did not care much for shooting a canine.... the rest, don't care...... and if it was causing a problem then I bust a cap on them anyway........

Wolves are dangerous game if you identify as a rabbit.

These fools "Identify" as most anything these days, so I would not be surprised at all if some idiot identified as a rabbit, fact is, that would be more desirable that some other things they identify as....

 

[hoytcanon]

Oh no worries, I shot plenty of black and brown bears, leopard, lions, Cougars, and probably others, never a concern or any feelings at all....

"Lions and Tigers and Bears! Oh my!"

 

[michael458]

21 pages of FUN................ What now? Death by Lever gun.... of course we all know these cartridges won't work .........

Now this was pretty damn dangerous....... COLD....... it was minus 30 degrees, not wind chill either.......And, while we were taking photos this bugger came back to life. No Crap Buckwheat, its true, I had filled him full of holes too, we put him in position for photos, we were standing behind him, he was stone cold dead, UNTIL HE STARTED BREATHING AGAIN....... Yes, its the truth, so everyone jumped out of the way, I had reloaded the 1886, I levered a cartridge in, and put some more holes in him at point blank....... I reckon he finally dies......... LOL

I thought it was pretty good fun, so I shot another one..............

This one was not near as much fun, only 3 rounds and he did not come back as a Zombie Bison....


I reckon if this one would have run over you it would have hurt a good bit too, Dangerous? Well...

I made a mistake, I thought this was an elephant to begin with........

This was perhaps one of the greatest battles ever with a buffalo, this one was a Warrior First Class....He did not want to quit the battle, even down, and full of holes, he rolled over to face me one last time............

And the charging killer of a Bleesbok, last but not least.......

Lever guns and Lever Cartridges....... all good....... but done way more with bolt guns..........

 

[1:66 twiste@d]

Thank you for sharing!!!

 

[Tundra Tiger]

What was your hippo load Michael?

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

Yeah, I have thought about doing something similar, however, I am just not talented enough to make something that looks decent, I would have my gun wrapped in black duck tape to hold it on...... Whew....... I never learned to roll with that steel cresent plate, and it just is not much fun with heavy loads....

In reality I like the Uberti much better, I have had this gun for years on top of years..... I carried it in Alaska in 2000 and took the only moose I have ever shot and a wolf as well.......

Hmmm...... Wolf, is that Dangerous Game? 45/70 did a pretty good job on it........ I did not like myself after that very much however, personal thing I suppose...... It was a snap decision ............I did not think, just did........

Just think of a wolf as a large chihuahua and you won’t feel so bad.

 

[hoytcanon]

Lever guns and Lever Cartridges....... all good....... but done way more with bolt guns..........

You are a true lever gun junkie! Respect.

Must have grown up on John Wayne Westerns?

 

[Bert the Turtle]

Honest question: what’s the appeal?

Archery I can understand: different skill set
Handgun I understand: different skill set
Rifle under the legal limit in most places? I just don’t get it. Whether I shoot a buffalo with my 404 or a 243, it’s pretty much the same on my end: stalk within 50 yards or closer, shoot animal with rifle. No additional challenge or different skill set, just a higher chance of things going wrong and a less-than-clean kill.

 

[hoytcanon]

Honest question: what’s the appeal?

Archery I can understand: different skill set
Handgun I understand: different skill set...

... a higher chance of things going wrong and a less-than-clean kill.

You answered your own question... everything is on a sliding scale from very, very easy, to very, very difficult...

On the "X" end, you have a kitchen knife, on the "Y" end, you have a Sherman tank... everything in between represents various levels of difficulty and intrigue... every one is entitled (within legal limits) to dance wherever they want to on that scale.

 

[spike.t]

Here's my latest rat stopper. I've even installed a suppressor so they don't hear all that lethality coming....

View attachment 590100

And a condom on the other end.....

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Honest question: what’s the appeal?

Archery I can understand: different skill set
Handgun I understand: different skill set
Rifle under the legal limit in most places? I just don’t get it. Whether I shoot a buffalo with my 404 or a 243, it’s pretty much the same on my end: stalk within 50 yards or closer, shoot animal with rifle. No additional challenge or different skill set, just a higher chance of things going wrong and a less-than-clean kill.

Hey @Bert the Turtle ... Speaking strictly for myself, it's the platform: I like hunting with lever action rifles. I haven't used anything but a lever action in close to 20 years. So when I went to Africa for the first time 3 years ago, the only thing I had was my .45-70. As I have shared, my PH was good with it, and worked with me to decide on a load. It worked, and I have used it a second time, and likely will again. Also, I don't have unlimited means to spend on stuff, so anything above a run of the mill .45-70, as far as power level in a lever action, would likely cost more than I have or would want to spend. So, I accept my limitations, and work diligently on finding an effective load to be able to use the one I have.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

You answered your own question... everything is on a sliding scale from very, very easy, to very, very difficult...

On the "X" end, you have a kitchen knife, on the "Y" end, you have a Sherman tank... everything in between represents various levels of difficulty and intrigue... every one is entitled (within legal limits) to dance wherever they want to on that scale.

My point being the hunt is no more difficult with an inadequate weapon, only the kill. The stalk is the same, the skill of shooting is the same. It’s just more likely to wound the animal and cause undue suffering. If it required more or even different skills or presented a different challenge, I can understand it. But it doesn’t. If one can shoot a buffalo with a 375, one can shoot a buffalo with a 45-70. Literally no additional challenge, just an increased chance of wounding the animal without killing it. While I don’t necessarily agree, the very people who are supporting the 45-70 say it is perfectly adequate, ie, no additional challenge. It is others who are suggesting it is inadequate. (Others to include the legal authorities in many countries). Did they put those laws in place
Simply to thwart people’s fun? No, they put them in place because experience shows what is and is not generally adequate most of the time- out of respect for the animals and the sport.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

Hey @Bert the Turtle ... Speaking strictly for myself, it's the platform: I like hunting with lever action rifles. I haven't used anything but a lever action in close to 20 years. So when I went to Africa for the first time 3 years ago, the only thing I had was my .45-70. As I have shared, my PH was good with it, and worked with me to decide on a load. It worked, and I have used it a second time, and likely will again. Also, I don't have unlimited means to spend on stuff, so anything above a run of the mill .45-70, as far as power level in a lever action, would likely cost more than I have or would want to spend. So, I accept my limitations, and work diligently on finding an effective load to be able to use the one I have.

This makes sense. If you like the platform
And enjoy using it, I understand why you’d want to use it.

 

[TOBY458]

And a condom on the other end.....

Strictly for longer LOP. Does nothing to prevent pregnancy or shoulder degradation.

 

[hoytcanon]

My point being the hunt is no more difficult with an inadequate weapon, only the kill. The stalk is the same, the skill of shooting is the same. It’s just more likely to wound the animal and cause undue suffering. If it required more or even different skills or presented a different challenge, I can understand it. But it doesn’t. If one can shoot a buffalo with a 375, one can shoot a buffalo with a 45-70. Literally no additional challenge, just an increased chance of wounding the animal without killing it. While I don’t necessarily agree, the very people who are supporting the 45-70 say it is perfectly adequate, ie, no additional challenge. It is others who are suggesting it is inadequate. (Others to include the legal authorities in many countries). Did they put those laws in place
Simply to thwart people’s fun? No, they put them in place because experience shows what is and is not generally adequate most of the time- out of respect for the animals and the sport.

You should start a thread on .223 for deer...

 

[Riflecrank]

I felt bad about shooting a couple of baboons, once, but I got over it quickly
when I suddenly realized how much they were like a couple of my relatives.

Shot a deer with a .223 Cooper single-shot, range was about 300 yards across a reclaimed coal strip mine," field of reams."
He put his antlers down across his right shoulder just as the bullet got there.
The bullet glanced off, chipped an antler tip and he ran about 30 yards and stopped, looking back at where he had come from.
Shot him again in chest, this time with his head up, and he dropped.
Measly 50-gr Nosler Ballistic Tip it was.

 

[michael458]

What was your hippo load Michael?

Opps..... Busted.... Ok it was a 405 CEB .500 caliber solid at 2120 fps...........

You are a true lever gun junkie! Respect.

Must have grown up on John Wayne Westerns?

I do love a traditional type lever gun, reality is, lever guns only account for far less than 5% of my time in the field. Most all of my shooting has been done with Bolt Guns, and 85-90% of those have been 458 caliber +.......... I also like single shots, 1885 and Ruger #1s, I also like semi guns as well, the working kind. I like handguns, 45 ACP and 45 Colt............. I like many sorts of firearms and have been shooting a long time...........The only thing I don't care much for is shotguns and double rifles.......

My point being the hunt is no more difficult with an inadequate weapon, only the kill. The stalk is the same, the skill of shooting is the same. It’s just more likely to wound the animal and cause undue suffering. If it required more or even different skills or presented a different challenge, I can understand it. But it doesn’t. If one can shoot a buffalo with a 375, one can shoot a buffalo with a 45-70.

Are you saying the 375 is adequate? For what, Wharf Rats? Really? I would not even consider a 375 for anything. I take it you are not a shooter or a firearms enthusiast. This is of course an assumption on my part based on your comments. This is not an insult, so please do not take it that way. Many of us are firearms enthusiast, I like all sorts of shooting and have been involved in shooting sports all my life. Many here like Double Rifles, I personally do not care for them at all. They also have serious limitations in my opinion, and I do have a lot of experience with them on the range and in the lab. Not my thing. Some people only care about semi guns, well I love my semi guns, they have a purpose. Some people don't care about fine bolt guns, like Winchester M70s, I love a Winchester M70, so much so, I would not go to the field with any other bolt gun, if it did not say Winchester M70 on it, it stays at home. Many of us like different calibers and cartridges, sometimes it is because of the platform, we like the lever guns, but cartridges are limited, and even the lever gun is limited as well...... Double rifles have many of the same limitations as well. 375 is seriously caliber deficient, but some people worship the stupid thing.......... many self defense people claim that a shot gun is the best home defense, others want short rifles, or handguns.......... Some people drive Pickup trucks, others some sort of car.... I drive Trucks! HEH....... Raptors at that. So its personal choice, Lever guns are seriously an American thing, many of us grew up watching westerns on TV, where the mightly lever gun tamed the Western frontier....... maybe its that.... some of you read too many African Hunting books, where the mighty Double Rifle saves the day, and the 375 can slay T'Rex........... So there..............But, again, I love lever guns, but they have accounted for less than 5% of my time in the field, most of that has been with a Winchester M70 in .458 caliber to .500 caliber........ I have also hunted with handguns and single shot rifles.......

I happen to not care for sticks and bows either, but some people like that, have at it. I have heard of people chasing pigs down and stabbing them as well, not for me, however my oldest son did that, I was sure there was something bad wrong with him........

You should start a thread on .223 for deer...

I have just the bullet for that mission....... HEHH HEH......

 

[michael458]

One other point on my Lever Gun Adventures, most of the time, the lever gun was along for the ride.... In the early days using the Marlin 45/70 on the buffalo you see above, that was an extra, I was in Zimbabwe shooting elephant with Winchester M70 in 458 Lott, the Marlin was along for the ride, and the PH I was hunting with was nuts about the little gun, so he wanted us to play with buffalo, so we did.

In Tanzania 2005 I was shooting buffalo and lots of plains game, roan, sable and such, I was using a Winchester M70 in 458 Lott and a Winchester M70 in 416 Remington, I took several buffalo, hippo and lots of other critters, but I also had that little tiny Winchester M94 in 45 Colt, so I also shot several animals with it, baboon, and a hartebeast as I recall..........

When using the M71 in 50 B&M Alaskan on buffalo and hippo, it was also a tag along, my Bolt gun was a Winchester M70 458 B&M with a 18 inch barrel, where I took other buffalo and elephant, and probably 20-25 head of plains game, we were testing some new .458 caliber CEB 250 gr Raptors with it...... I had the lever gun along to purposely take buffalo, which it did great on, but also had this hippo that needed sorting out......... I also busted another bigger hippo with the 458 B&M Bolt gun while looking for a croc one day........

Much of the time, my Lever Guns were along, but not primary. Many times I had handguns as well, but not primary........ But none the less, still love the lever guns, oh, and WInchester M70s as well.....

Carry a big stupid ass 10 lb 4 ft long 458 Lott, or 458 Winchester all day long, then put your hands on one of these little 18 inch lever guns, and you tell me.......... HEH.... the very reason B&M Bolt guns exist......

 

[Bandera]

I can say this about lever guns, they stir up the conversation in camp. On our hunt last summer in SA one of my buddies took the Marlin 1896 45-70 SBL for plains game. 2-7 Leupold long eye relief scope. He used the Barnes VOR-TX 300 grain load. He had a mixed reaction from the PH’s. Some though him a bit crazy and some though well what ever floats your boat. Then there was the one who just had to have that rifle. He offered to buy it at nearly double what it cost and pay all associated transfer, import and what ever else fee’s.