45-70 for dangerous game?

[hoytcanon]

Would folks be comfortable with a 480 DGX Bonded @ 1900 fps with 3850 ft/lb for Buffalo under 100 yards?

 

[IvW]

I still have yet to see anyone intelligently argue against this point.

So you are comparing a 400gr .458 bullet travelling at 100fps slower at max pressure to a 400gr. .411 bullet at 100fps faster at lower pressure?? Much lower sd.....less penetration much less performance.....stop kidding yourself......

 

[Rafiki]

I still have yet to see anyone intelligently argue against this point.

Good God, here we go again.

 

[IvW]

Good God, here we go again.

Exactly....clueless....

 

[Certus]

So you are comparing a 400gr .458 bullet travelling at 100fps slower at max pressure to a 400gr. .411 bullet at 100fps faster at lower pressure?? Much lower sd.....less penetration much less performance.....stop kidding yourself......

You keep forgetting that the mono solids perform differently (ie: loads better) to conventional bullets.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Obviously I am a fan, and will use mine in the future. Yes, for DG.

That said...

Can it be an effective choice for some types of DG? Yes, absolutely.
Are there some who will never believe that, irrespective of circumstance? Yes, absolutely.
Is either side going to change the minds of someone on the other side?

 

[1dirthawker]

So you are comparing a 400gr .458 bullet travelling at 100fps slower at max pressure to a 400gr. .411 bullet at 100fps faster at lower pressure?? Much lower sd.....less penetration much less performance.....stop kidding yourself......

IVW, i agree with most of what you post. my only question is... with a good solid, 458 400 gr bullet put on the buffalo's shoulder or just behind, you don't think it would do the job? i expect it would end up under the hide on the opposite side or a complete pass thru.

re: 100 fps and pressure, yeah, the 450-400 is a bit better at both, regardless, would the 458 bullet noted above work?

i would agree, would not be a great choice as a stopping rifle, but i suspect a charging buff shot in the head with the above combo would die anyway. yeah/no?

 

[Doug Hamilton]

I still have yet to see anyone intelligently argue against this point.

Okay, I'll bite. How are you managing to get 2000 fps with a 400 gr. bullet? Out of what? The closest I've seen is a 350 gr. at 2002 fps from a 24" test barrel.

I suppose that you could kill a buffalo with a .243 if you were very careful, but that would not make it a good choice as a large DG round. If it's legal, and your PH is OK with it use what you want, it just would not be my choice.

 

[Rafiki]

i would agree, would not be a great choice as a stopping rifle, but i suspect a charging buff shot in the head with the above combo would die anyway. yeah/no?

Like this?

 

[Doug Hamilton]

I don't know if a brown bear is considered "dangerous game". If it is, then i have some small experience with the 45-70 on dangerous game.

i have a 45-70, stainless and laminate stock that i extended the magazine on (they make em like that now) and i can state with full confidence that with a full mag of good bullets, i am just about untouchable via a brown bear. that gun is very fast to fire, (had a client shoot one shot at a brown bear, i shot 3 times before he fired again) and reliable. it is accurate and with good bullets just smashes them. (i am shooting a 458 win at em now)

the 45-70 is capable of moving a 400 gr bullet at 2000 fps. my 450-400 is moving a 400 gr bullet at 2100 fps and has looooong been considered a great buffalo cartridge. craig boddington called it "perfect" for cape buffalo. I have never shot a buffalo with a 45-70, and only one with a 450-400. so my experience with DG in africa is minuscule. but, i suspect that a good solid in the 45-70 will not bounce off a buffalo. i thought @michael458 did a great job explaining how the bullet tech has improved the performance of "marginal" calibers.

are there "better" or more powerful rifles, yup. will they kill a buffalo "deader" nope. if you want a stopping rifle, it would be better to have a 416 rigby or bigger, but, is a 375 h&h a stopping rifle?

all this to say, a 45-70 will kill any DG animal. is it as good or ideal as a 450 (same caliber) as a 458 win or 450 nitro, naaaah. will it get the job done, i bet it would. as @michael458 noted earlier, muzzle energy does not kill game, long holes thru vitals get it done. would it be my first pick on shooting an elephant, nope. would it do on a cape buffalo, yup. is it ideal.....what does ideal look like?

Yes, a brown bear would be a dangerous game animal, as would a leopard or a lion. No one would argue that a .45-70 would be inadequate for those species. The question comes in with.bigger and tougher animals. Nobody seems to think that a .45-70 would be a good choice for elephant or hippo so the only question really is buffalo. Having had a problem with a bull while I and my PH both used .458 WM's. I broke that bull's neck as he closed on the PH at about 10 feet. Personally, I do not intend to hunt them with a marginal cartridge.

 

[Rafiki]

The current hornady leverevolution in 45-70 is a 325gr bullet @ 2050 fps and 3032 lbs of energy. That is close to a .416 ruger.(2400 fps 5000 ft lbs with a 400 gr bullet)

In my opinion there is no equivalency between a 325gr and 400gr bullets, nor 2050fps and 2400fps nor 3032ft/lbs and 5000ft/lbs. It is also very dangerous to compare a bison to a cape buffalo. Other than that good luck.

 

[1:66 twiste@d]

I just got my 45/70 bolt action rifle back from the gunsmith today. Now I can get back to tightening up my 300 ttsx group. It was at 1 1/2 inch at 100 yds. If I can get it at one inch or less its going on the plane to SA. No Cape Buffalo on this trip. just Zebra, Blue Wildebeest, Gemsbok, Impala and Warthog.

 

[mauserhunter]

I just got my 45/70 bolt action rifle back from the gunsmith today. Now I can get back to tightening up my 300 ttsx group. It was at 1 1/2 inch at 100 yds. If I can get it at one inch or less its going on the plane to SA. No Cape Buffalo on this trip. just Zebra, Blue Wildebeest, Gemsbok, Impala and Warthog.

Ya we need pictures

 

[hoytcanon]

I just got my 45/70 bolt action rifle back from the gunsmith today. Now I can get back to tightening up my 300 ttsx group. It was at 1 1/2 inch at 100 yds. If I can get it at one inch or less its going on the plane to SA. No Cape Buffalo on this trip. just Zebra, Blue Wildebeest, Gemsbok, Impala and Warthog.

I had a similar idea... built a bolt action .450 Marlin on a Ruger M77 Mark II Stainless action... I shoot 350 grain RN's at 2250 for bears... smooth gun and fast handling. Very happy with it... doing some bullet and scope experimentation with it now before spring bear season starts.

 

[1:66 twiste@d]

Ya we need p

I had a similar idea... built a bolt action .450 Marlin on a Ruger M77 Mark II Stainless action... I shoot 350 grain RN's at 2250 for bears... smooth gun and fast handling. Very happy with it... doing some bullet and scope experimentation with it now before spring bear season starts.View attachment 589714View attachment 589715

Ya we need pictures

I will post pics of the rifle after I get home tomorrow night. Hotel doesn't like gun brought in the rooms. And I will post pics of SA third week of August when we get back.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I will post pics of the rifle after I get home tomorrow night. Hotel doesn't like gun brought in the rooms. And I will post pics of SA third week of August when we get back.

I am curious where you are at the hotels are that way. Heck, maybe they are that way almost everywhere for all I know. Hotels in Anchorage are the only ones I ever travel through and they don't even look at me when I carry in gun cases.

 

[hoytcanon]

I am curious where you are at the hotels are that way. Heck, maybe they are that way almost everywhere for all I know. Hotels in Anchorage are the only ones I ever travel through and they don't even look at me when I carry in gun cases.

Democrat city...

 

[1:66 twiste@d]

I am curious where you are at the hotels are that way. Heck, maybe they are that way almost everywhere for all I know. Hotels in Anchorage are the only ones I ever travel through and they don't even look at me when I carry in gun cases.

I am in Anchorage. I have been stopped here before. So I just keeped them locked up in my cruiser .

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Are you Alaskan? If so I did not realize that.

 

[1:66 twiste@d]

Are you Alaskan? If so I did not realize that.

Yup. I live on Evans Island in PWS. I am a VPSO out there.