375H&H Mag 300gr Nosler Partition...surpassed?

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I have a marketing degree. It is quite common to see substandard products out-sell better products due to advertising and other marketing applications. We have all known of some great product that just didn’t stay around or have as much success due to a lack of marketing while other products become very popular.

I won't disagree with you there.

 

[Daga Boy]

I have also had some bad experiences with Nosler partitions, especially when used at relatively high velocities and relatively close range. For instance, in all large animals which I shot with a my .338WM using 210 gr Nosler partitions at under 150m the front section of the bullet completely disappeared , leaving only the rear portion. Trauma was massive (as if the animals had been shot with an explosive round) and wounding was quite shallow - typically not going right through a wildebeest shot on the shoulder.
On the other hand, the same loads worked well on gemsbuck, etc at ranges in excess of 200-250m.
So basically I think its a matter of horses for courses.
In the bush country, and especially if there are dangerous animals (mostly buffalo) , I favour a tough bullet like the Swift A frame or Rhino sild shank, especially for a first shot. These bullets do not expand much on thin skinned game , but they go through just about anything.
In open country I will go to more frangible bullets, including the NP as the soft front section gives good expansion at even relatively low impact velocities.
A lot of people rate the Nosler Partition very highly for cats - and with good reason (see above)

 

[Ray B]

I tested a bunch of .308 & .375 bullets about 30 years ago by shooting them into water filled milk jugs. My conclusions regarding the Nosler Partition were that the shooter had two bullets in one. the front half performed as a standard cup & core bullet- the core being shot out and the petals pealing back, either laying flat against the rear portion or breaking off. the back half of the bullet performed as a solid, the front half was devastating to the first few jugs, the rear portion didn't cause much disruption but penetrated to the 7 or 8th jug (compared to 4 jugs for standard bullets). What John Nosler did was to create a standard to which the premium designs that followed were compared. There are several bullets available now that will outperform the Nosler Partition (at a price). but it was the Nosler Partition that showed there was something better than the bullets available in the late 1940s.

 

[Daga Boy]

Yes, that sums it up well.
Just note though that while a bullet with this type of performance works well on thin skinned game at a fairly wide range of impact velocities (albeit sometimes with massive trauma/meat damage) , they simply aren't any good on thick skinned or heavy boned animals as the front section blows up early and the retained mass of the rear section is too low to give good penetration.

 

[bruce moulds]

like i always say.
the partition is a good bullet to make a big gun into a little gun.
NOT a bullet to make a little gun into a big gun.
in fact, sometimes a sierra is a better bullet.
when those noses blow off, they can turn the penetration direction of the base section - bad on bigger game.
bruce.

 

[Dr Ray]

Excellent advice!

 

[fourfive8]

I suppose the NP has been surpassed but NOT by most non-bonded bullets of older design and even some bonded bullets of older design. Especially those with relatively thin, even if tapered front jackets. Forget the Hornady and Remington and Speer "Locked or Lokt or Hot Core" terminology and the terminology which states "Big Game" or whatever. Even some of the modern bonded designs will fail and come apart under terminal conditions long before the NP will fail. These I believe were simply an old thin jacketed cup and core design that was changed easily and cheaply by the manufacturer by bonding the core to the jacket all in a effort to catch the "bonded wave" of marketing. Put those bullets under stress and they come apart pretty quickly. Think about it- both the thin jacket and the lead layer adjacent to the bonded lead layer are just as weak as the original design so remain the weak links as they have always been. All this based on personal experience with or witness to performance of most of these designs

I would carefully study the results of legitimate terminal tests (and legitimate field results) and study the basic cross section design and trust your eyes and brain. In other words do "blind" tests that are blind to brand names, stories, anecdotes, grand pa says and all the various hype. Just analyze on your own... after all we have pretty good brains.

 

[Ed Lally]

These discussions on the best bullet will go on forever as we all have our opinions, backed by our limited experience and antidotal evidence. I just returned from my third trip to RSA for PG. Prior to my first, I asked my PH and his son, also a PH, separately, "What bullets should I use?" Both replied: "Barnes". First year, I took a Kudu and a Gemsbuck with 165 gr Barnes from my Blaser in .300 Wby, and an Impala, a Springbuck, a Blesbuck and several cull Springbuck with 50 gr Barnes from my Blaser in 22-250. All one shot kills except the Blesbuck which took a quick follow-up. Second year, Black, Copper, White, Kalahari and Common Springbuck, all one shot kills with a 100 gr Barnes from my .25-06 Browning single shot plus 3 more cull Springbuck. This year, I used my Blaser in .375 H&H and took a Zebra, Nyala, Blue Wildebeest and a really nice Impala. All of the above with 250 gr Barnes TTSX. Not all bullets were recovered and all, without regard to caliber, made small holes entering and those that exited made not much larger holes exiting. There was a decent blood trail but it was not utilized as no animal except the Blesbuck went more than 25 yards, most dropping in less than 10 yards. Meat damage mininal, which to me is important. The bullets that were recovered were picture perfect examples of the Barnes 4 petal "flower". At the end of my recent trip, while laying plans to return in 2020 with a Krieghoff Classic in 470 NE for DG in Mozambique, I asked the same question of my two PH's, expecting the same answer. They both replied "Swift". I was surprised but I will be shooting Swift next year. I am a Professional Engineer who provided consulting services to my clients for over 50 years and was constantly asked for my professional opinion on issues within my realm of expertise. When I ask a Professional Hunter for his professional opinion on an issue within his realm of expertise, I tend to listen and accept his opinion as valuable. My point is that most hunters, self included, have a bit of experience and some things we have heard from "uncle Louie" but the limitations of our experience do not make us experts. Ask your PH and listen as he knows the game, the shooting distances and other factors and has formed his options based on more experience than almost all of us will ever accumulate.

 

[Scott CWO]

Yes, that sums it up well.
Just note though that while a bullet with this type of performance works well on thin skinned game at a fairly wide range of impact velocities (albeit sometimes with massive trauma/meat damage) , they simply aren't any good on thick skinned or heavy boned animals as the front section blows up early and the retained mass of the rear section is too low to give good penetration.

That’s what I am trying to say. Not the best for larger game.

 

[Scott CWO]

These discussions on the best bullet will go on forever as we all have our opinions, backed by our limited experience and antidotal evidence. I just returned from my third trip to RSA for PG. Prior to my first, I asked my PH and his son, also a PH, separately, "What bullets should I use?" Both replied: "Barnes". First year, I took a Kudu and a Gemsbuck with 165 gr Barnes from my Blaser in .300 Wby, and an Impala, a Springbuck, a Blesbuck and several cull Springbuck with 50 gr Barnes from my Blaser in 22-250. All one shot kills except the Blesbuck which took a quick follow-up. Second year, Black, Copper, White, Kalahari and Common Springbuck, all one shot kills with a 100 gr Barnes from my .25-06 Browning single shot plus 3 more cull Springbuck. This year, I used my Blaser in .375 H&H and took a Zebra, Nyala, Blue Wildebeest and a really nice Impala. All of the above with 250 gr Barnes TTSX. Not all bullets were recovered and all, without regard to caliber, made small holes entering and those that exited made not much larger holes exiting. There was a decent blood trail but it was not utilized as no animal except the Blesbuck went more than 25 yards, most dropping in less than 10 yards. Meat damage mininal, which to me is important. The bullets that were recovered were picture perfect examples of the Barnes 4 petal "flower". At the end of my recent trip, while laying plans to return in 2020 with a Krieghoff Classic in 470 NE for DG in Mozambique, I asked the same question of my two PH's, expecting the same answer. They both replied "Swift". I was surprised but I will be shooting Swift next year. I am a Professional Engineer who provided consulting services to my clients for over 50 years and was constantly asked for my professional opinion on issues within my realm of expertise. When I ask a Professional Hunter for his professional opinion on an issue within his realm of expertise, I tend to listen and accept his opinion as valuable. My point is that most hunters, self included, have a bit of experience and some things we have heard from "uncle Louie" but the limitations of our experience do not make us experts. Ask your PH and listen as he knows the game, the shooting distances and other factors and has formed his options based on more experience than almost all of us will ever accumulate.

Truth! Swift A-Frames have never failed for us.

 

[Ray B]

All of this reminds me of a conversation between Jack O'Connor and the maker of Bitterroot Bullets, Bill Steigers. Jack had used some of Bill's super tough BBC bonded core bullets on a sheep hunt. at a get-together following the hunt Jack was talking about how the BBC had performed. Jack said that he was above the sheep, that was walking on shale rock. The 130 grain 270 bullet had gone threw the sheep's chest and blew several pieces of shale into the air, indicating that the bullet was too tough for such use on thin skinned animals. Bill expecting to hear a tale of arduous tracking of a sheep that was mortally wounded but able to cover a great distance before collapsing, asked "what happened next?" To which Jack deadpanned "Oh, the sheep fell and rolled a couple yards."

So much for energy dumps, hydrostatic shock, spending all energy within the animal, and other such measures of bullet performance.

 

[One Day...]

Surpassed? Maybe... An unmatched quantum leap in bullet design? Always...

The Nosler Partition was the first and the only bullet for 50 years to provide BOTH rapid expansion AND deep penetration. For more than half a century it was, rightfully, the bullet benchmark by which all others were judged.

The bonded bullets (well... at least the best of them... including the A Frame, which is nothing but a Partition with a bonded front core) later resolved the issue of the lead core separating from the jacket. In most cases it reduces the expansion potential (but not enough to be concerned with it) and it increases penetration. This was progress on large animals and DG.

The mono-metal bullets of proper hardness and proper design (expander polymer tip for PG bullets, smaller hollow points without expander for DG bullets) provide similar performance to the best bonded bullets, AND are lead free. It will take the time it will take but they will win the product development game in the end and be the last one standing... Lead free is already the law in California. Coming to the hunting fields near you...

Progress...

Let us not be too hard on the grand old dame Partition, we were quite happy to have it when, for most of the 70 years it has been offered, there was nothing even approaching its performance, and - make no mistake about it - it continues to kill today just as well as it did in 1948.

Are there slightly better mousetraps after another 70 years of progress? I would hope so. But it does not make the NP less good than what it was, and pretty dang good it was and has always been, and still is. Hat off to John Nosler for having created it


PS: talking about progress, interestingly this chat provides yet another example of full circle "progress" since we are essentially coming back to the mono-metal Balle D of the 8x50 mm R cartridge adopted by France in 1898 for its Lebel rifle, the first battle rifle in the world to shoot a smokeless load propelling a "small" diameter spitzer bullet (small diameter compared to previous black powder cartridges).

 

[bruce moulds]

and might have been a boat tail to boot?
bruce.

 

[One Day...]

100% correct Bruce

 

[CrippledEagle]

I have a collection of recovered nosler partition bullets, mostly 30 and 375 cal. The expansion is perfect and the penetration was mostly ideal. When a bullet expands double caliber, stays together and expends all it's energy INSIDE the animal, that is Nirvana. I have several boxes of the old 270 and 300 grain 375 NP bullets that I wish I could clone. Simply the best. My pattern for elephant in my old pre-64 M70 375HH was a first round 300gr NP in the chamber backed up by a 300gr Hornady solid. I never needed the solid (even though 1 or 2 more insurance shots always followed)! The properly loaded 375HH is just easier to shoot accurately, therefore allowing better shot placement. I dropped a big bull tusker dead in his tracks with a brain shot from. . . . .a 375 Nosler 300gr partition. Shot placement.

 

[Scott CWO]

I have a collection of recovered nosler partition bullets, mostly 30 and 375 cal. The expansion is perfect and the penetration was mostly ideal. When a bullet expands double caliber, stays together and expends all it's energy INSIDE the animal, that is Nirvana. I have several boxes of the old 270 and 300 grain 375 NP bullets that I wish I could clone. Simply the best. My pattern for elephant in my old pre-64 M70 375HH was a first round 300gr NP in the chamber backed up by a 300gr Hornady solid. I never needed the solid (even though 1 or 2 more insurance shots always followed)! The properly loaded 375HH is just easier to shoot accurately, therefore allowing better shot placement. I dropped a big bull tusker dead in his tracks with a brain shot from. . . . .a 375 Nosler 300gr partition. Shot placement.

Uhhh, no. I can kill a deer with a head shot with a .22LR but that doesn't make it the best thing to use.

 

[CrippledEagle]

Thank you Scott for your comment. At almost 2000 posts, you surely have more time than I do to post an opinion on here. Hopefully your insight will be helpful to others.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I used (and continue to use) Nosler Partitions in 7x57mm Mauser (175Gr Sellier & Bellot factory loads) and in .375 Holland & Holland Magnum (300Gr factory loads).

7x57mm Mauser

.375 Holland & Holland Magnum

In my humble experience, the heavy-for-caliber Nosler Partitions are excellent for all African plains game. As well as for leopard and lion. Being a cup & core bullet design … they open up incredibly fast, which is a very good thing for the great cats.

One of my white hunters in Botswana, uses (to the exclusion of anything else) a pre ‘64 Winchester Model 70 in .458 Winchester Magnum loaded with 500Gr Nosler Partitions as his backup rifle of choice when guiding for lion and leopard. I’ve personally seen the 500Gr Partition absolutely HAMMER a charging male lion with a frontal heart shot.

But I strongly discourage the use of the Nosler Partition on Cape buffalo and would not personally touch it for hippopotamus. We can forget about thinking of using it against elephant. There are a dozen far less painful methods of committing suicide, in my opinion. You might have a fluke and get away with it once, but keep trying it again and again… and eventually your luck will run dry.

A long time ago, a local (African) friend used 200Gr Nosler Partitions in a .30-06 to shoot several Cape buffalo for the butcher at the Wankie colliery to feed the workers. He reported that they worked wonders if a perfect broadside shot behind the shoulder was taken. But also said that it’s suicide to attempt to use any Nosler Partitions (regardless of caliber) for frontal shots on Cape buffalo. I’m inclined to believe him.

As an all round bullet for almost all African game (barring elephants, which exclusively mandate solids) … my personal favorite will always be Federal’s brilliant Trophy Bonded Bear Claw.

 

[Scott CWO]

Thank you Scott for your comment. At almost 2000 posts, you surely have more time than I do to post an opinion on here. Hopefully your insight will be helpful to others.

Not sure what my number of posts has to do with anything and thank you for the time management compliment. If you’re looking for affirmation on this site as to taking brain shots on elephant with anything other than a solid, I doubt you’ll get much.

 

[M Whitley]

I have used the 375 H&H with 300 grain Partitions for everything from Oribi up to Cape buffalo and leopard. Recovered bullets show great performance. I only shoot the Nosler Accubond or Partition in 300 grain for soft in the 375H&H both have never let me down all factory ammo not reload.