375H&H Mag 300gr Nosler Partition...surpassed?

[Ray B]

From what I've read it seems there have been three processes for the manufacture of Nosler Partition bullets. The first type are easily recognizable due to their bronze color and machined appearance. the second type and the third type are indistinguishable to me, but from what I've read, the process was changed. For performance the first and second performed as the bullet was designed. The third type is claimed to have failures. I'm not sure when this change in process supposedly occurred and what the authors were including as a failure.

If anyone has specific information regarding this third type of Partition I would like to hear it. AND any experience with Partitions on game in the last five or ten years as this would cover the new bullets.

 

[Joker12]

That bullet will kill any PG stone dead if you point it right.

 

[BeeMaa]

There are too many better choices to be using (in the same price range) that are of bonded or mono-metal construction with better performance.

Swift A-Frame, Federal Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, Barnes TSX/TTSX and Norma Oryx have all proven better performance on straight line penetration with 1.5x expansion while maintaining 90% or better weight retention. Below are some recovered bullets just in case some don't think that these bonded bullets aren't giving up ALL of their energy.

Use whatever you like, but I'll only use the NP and other cup and core bullets for punching paper. Right now all my rifles are being fed a steady diet of Barnes TSX and TTSX with excellent accuracy.

@CrippledEagle - I'm not sure when your Elephant hunt took place, but a brain shot with a NP in .375 caliber on such an animal would be borderline (if not outright) reckless according to the PH's I've spoken with in the past 5+ years. If you got it done, good for you and I'm glad no further action was necessary. But just because it was done in the past, doesn't mean it's a proper way of doing business currently. After all, WMD Bell used 6.5x53R, 275RIGBY and 318WR extensively on Elephant, but that's not the case anymore.

Bullet development has evolved past the NP. No one likes change, least of all me. But the facts are hard (impossible?) to deny on thick skinned and heavy boned animals. Better choices are out there.

 

[IvW]

I have a collection of recovered nosler partition bullets, mostly 30 and 375 cal. The expansion is perfect and the penetration was mostly ideal. When a bullet expands double caliber, stays together and expends all it's energy INSIDE the animal, that is Nirvana. I have several boxes of the old 270 and 300 grain 375 NP bullets that I wish I could clone. Simply the best. My pattern for elephant in my old pre-64 M70 375HH was a first round 300gr NP in the chamber backed up by a 300gr Hornady solid. I never needed the solid (even though 1 or 2 more insurance shots always followed)! The properly loaded 375HH is just easier to shoot accurately, therefore allowing better shot placement. I dropped a big bull tusker dead in his tracks with a brain shot from. . . . .a 375 Nosler 300gr partition. Shot placement.

What a load of BS....it is posts like these that get people killed...

How many elephant you shot with this combination???

Having below resime I quess you know more than the rest of us... ..

Hello! I am the past president of the Pittsburgh Chapter and past board member of SCI. I was "active" in the Rhodesian Bush War and veteran of many safaris.

 

[PerH]

From what I've read it seems there have been three processes for the manufacture of Nosler Partition bullets. The first type are easily recognizable due to their bronze color and machined appearance. the second type and the third type are indistinguishable to me, but from what I've read, the process was changed. For performance the first and second performed as the bullet was designed. The third type is claimed to have failures. I'm not sure when this change in process supposedly occurred and what the authors were including as a failure.

If anyone has specific information regarding this third type of Partition I would like to hear it. AND any experience with Partitions on game in the last five or ten years as this would cover the new bullets.

It say so in the book about Nosler also.

1st they cold extruded the jacket, cut, drilled cold, filled lead,machine,shaped ,locked it cold.

Skip to the 3rd, did all the things warm instead of cold process ,led to more brittleness and unpredicabillity in them.

 

[Clodo Ferreira]

Hi,

My biggest "big game" I have taken with 300 gr NP bullets in my 375 H&H were several wild cattle, both bulls and cows.
The bullets I have are from late nineties.
I cannot be more happy with their performance on that game! Some bullets even exited on side lung shots on cows. And in front shots their penetration were 1 meter inside the bulls! How can I ask for better performance ??

 

[Joker12]

The largest of the PG is a big eland. I shot a very big bull eland with 180gr Nosler partition from my old reliable 30'06 A few years ago. It was a one shot kill. On PG it doesn't get much better than that! I use them with complete confidence on appropriate game.

 

[colorado]

I shoot 570g TSX's in my 500 Jeffery, 300g A-Frames in my 375 Weatherby and 150g Partitions in my 270 Win. In my mind, each is the perfect bullet for their caliber and the game I hunt with them.

 

[CrippledEagle]

What a load of BS....it is posts like these that get people killed...

How many elephant you shot with this combination???

Having below resime I quess you know more than the rest of us... ..

Hello! I am the past president of the Pittsburgh Chapter and past board member of SCI. I was "active" in the Rhodesian Bush War and veteran of many safaris.

Humility is a virtue and I have nothing to gain by replying to you sir, but here goes The year was 1973, in the middle of the ongoing Bush War. When our pickup boat didn't show up, my partner and I were forced to spend the night on an island in the Matusadona somewhere near Bumi Hills. The water was full of bilharzia and we had no choice but wait. Alan carried a FN FAL assault rifle, I had my handgun and my old M70 375HH. We soon found we were not alone on the island. Just at last light we came face to face with a big loner bull who wasted no time throwing those ears back and coming straight on. It was what I had in my gun. As I remember, I only had 3 solids left and none of them were in the magazine. Of course I would not advocate using an expanding bullet on thick skinned game, even though the last bull I shot was a heart shot with that very same bullet backed up with a solid. The old noslers were works of art. John actually turned them on a lathe. I have no regard for insulting little twits who have to flap their wings and crow like a juvenile bantam rooster. At 80-something I have likely forgotten more than you will ever know or experience so you can stick your "BS" up your voicebox. BTW, I have hunted John Nosler, later his son Bob and after that the Leupold-Nosler sales manager Chub Eastman. Why don't you slink off into your corner like a good jackal and stop with the insults.

 

[CrippledEagle]

From what I've read it seems there have been three processes for the manufacture of Nosler Partition bullets. The first type are easily recognizable due to their bronze color and machined appearance. the second type and the third type are indistinguishable to me, but from what I've read, the process was changed. For performance the first and second performed as the bullet was designed. The third type is claimed to have failures. I'm not sure when this change in process supposedly occurred and what the authors were including as a failure.

If anyone has specific information regarding this third type of Partition I would like to hear it. AND any experience with Partitions on game in the last five or ten years as this would cover the new bullets.

The first partitions were swaged around the lead cores and finish turned on a lathe. Truly a hand-made bullet far superior to anything made today, and John actually ran the machine. I still have several boxes of both 270 and 300gr. The .308 and 375's were perfected, while the low volume 338's were never quite up to snuff.

 

[CrippledEagle]

It say so in the book about Nosler also.

1st they cold extruded the jacket, cut, drilled cold, filled lead,machine,shaped ,locked it cold.

Skip to the 3rd, did all the things warm instead of cold process ,led to more brittleness and unpredicabillity in them.

This sounds completely right to me.

 

[IvW]

Humility is a virtue and I have nothing to gain by replying to you sir, but here goes The year was 1973, in the middle of the ongoing Bush War. When our pickup boat didn't show up, my partner and I were forced to spend the night on an island in the Matusadona somewhere near Bumi Hills. The water was full of bilharzia and we had no choice but wait. Alan carried a FN FAL assault rifle, I had my handgun and my old M70 375HH. We soon found we were not alone on the island. Just at last light we came face to face with a big loner bull who wasted no time throwing those ears back and coming straight on. It was what I had in my gun. As I remember, I only had 3 solids left and none of them were in the magazine. Of course I would not advocate using an expanding bullet on thick skinned game, even though the last bull I shot was a heart shot with that very same bullet backed up with a solid. The old noslers were works of art. John actually turned them on a lathe. I have no regard for insulting little twits who have to flap their wings and crow like a juvenile bantam rooster. At 80-something I have likely forgotten more than you will ever know or experience so you can stick your "BS" up your voicebox. BTW, I have hunted John Nosler, later his son Bob and after that the Leupold-Nosler sales manager Chub Eastman. Why don't you slink off into your corner like a good jackal and stop with the insults.

Typical response to defend a previous statement....is change the story.

My pattern for elephant in my old pre-64 M70 375HH was a first round 300gr NP in the chamber backed up by a 300gr Hornady solid. I never needed the solid

Here you clearly stated that for elephant hunting you always used a first round 300gr NP in the chamber and that you never needed a solid.....

Then it was all you had availible on the island...

Then you state that you would never advocate the use of a expanding bullet on thick skinned game...
So which is it?

Ya ya....you have forgotten what I will never learn...I have shot enough DG including elephant to not even consider expanding bullets especially a cup and core NP....

Who knows maybe the elephant story on the island us true and somehow it work out for you...but to make statements as you have regarding elephant hunting and NP bullets especially in 375 H&H is far fetched...and I guess you are one of the luckiest people to have survived...

 

[BeeMaa]

You just posted this a few minutes ago...

Of course I would not advocate using an expanding bullet on thick skinned game, even though the last bull I shot was a heart shot with that very same bullet backed up with a solid.

While earlier (over the weekend) you posted this...clearly advocating using a NP for hunting Elepahant.

My pattern for elephant in my old pre-64 M70 375HH was a first round 300gr NP in the chamber backed up by a 300gr Hornady solid.

I can see what @IvW was talking about...it's pretty clear to me at least. And for the most part I'd have to agree with him. Maybe he could have said it in a nicer way, but most here are thick skinned enough to understand his message. I seriously doubt he meant malice towards you. Matter of fact, he's a PH and has a vested interest in traveling hunters making the best decisions possible when it comes to their bullets.

We are all looking to gain knowledge. Knowledge through experience is a big help and I appreciate your contributions. However, you really need to step back and take a look at what you have written before you hit the "post reply". Maybe even save it or let it sit for a while. Right or wrong you will be judged by how you treat others with what you write. As of right now...there's a lot of room for improvement. Name calling? At your age? Over the internet? You should know better.

 

[CrippledEagle]

You just posted this a few minutes ago...

While earlier (over the weekend) you posted this...clearly advocating using a NP for hunting Elepahant.


I can see what @IvW was talking about...it's pretty clear to me at least. And for the most part I'd have to agree with him. Maybe he could have said it in a nicer way, but most here are thick skinned enough to understand his message. I seriously doubt he meant malice towards you. Matter of fact, he's a PH and has a vested interest in traveling hunters making the best decisions possible when it comes to their bullets.

We are all looking to gain knowledge. Knowledge through experience is a big help and I appreciate your contributions. However, you really need to step back and take a look at what you have written before you hit the "post reply". Maybe even save it or let it sit for a while. Right or wrong you will be judged by how you treat others with what you write. As of right now...there's a lot of room for improvement. Name calling? At your age? Over the internet? You should know better.

Only reacting to the "BS" part which pissed me off. Touché. Everything I said was 100% true. Fifty years ago It always made more sense to make a good stalk intending for a heart shot undetected. That's where the old partition was at it's best. I think the caveat here is that the noslers I used were the original early 70's version that were essentially hand made and a far cry above current production design. Original partition bullets seemed to give much better penetration, especially in larger calibers at lower relative velocities, and performed almost as well as a solid. Lots of my 30-338-LT (3000fps) recoveries show the frontal core missing with a perfect double caliber bronze mushroom ahead of the base. Today's partitions have succumbed to the economy of modern manufacturing techniques. I can fully understand recent experience with current products making it hard to compare and understand. Where are you Walter Dalrymple Maitland Bell?

 

[CrippledEagle]

Typical response to defend a previous statement....is change the story.

Here you clearly stated that for elephant hunting you always used a first round 300gr NP in the chamber and that you never needed a solid.....

Then it was all you had availible on the island...

Then you state that you would never advocate the use of a expanding bullet on thick skinned game...
So which is it?

Ya ya....you have forgotten what I will never learn...I have shot enough DG including elephant to not even consider expanding bullets especially a cup and core NP....

Who knows maybe the elephant story on the island us true and somehow it work out for you...but to make statements as you have regarding elephant hunting and NP bullets especially in 375 H&H is far fetched...and I guess you are one of the luckiest people to have survived...

Only reacting to the "BS" part which pissed me off. Touché. Everything I said was 100% true. Fifty years ago It always made more sense to make a good stalk intending for a heart shot undetected. That's where the old partition was at it's best. I think the caveat here is that the noslers I used were the original early 70's version that were essentially hand made and a far cry above current production design. Original partition bullets seemed to give much better penetration, especially in larger calibers at lower relative velocities, and performed almost as well as a solid. Lots of my 30-338-LT (3000fps) recoveries show the frontal core missing with a perfect double caliber bronze mushroom ahead of the base. Today's partitions have succumbed to the economy of modern manufacturing techniques. I can fully understand recent experience with current products making it hard to compare and understand. Where are you Walter Dalrymple Maitland Bell?

 

[CrippledEagle]

You just posted this a few minutes ago...

While earlier (over the weekend) you posted this...clearly advocating using a NP for hunting Elepahant.


I can see what @IvW was talking about...it's pretty clear to me at least. And for the most part I'd have to agree with him. Maybe he could have said it in a nicer way, but most here are thick skinned enough to understand his message. I seriously doubt he meant malice towards you. Matter of fact, he's a PH and has a vested interest in traveling hunters making the best decisions possible when it comes to their bullets.

We are all looking to gain knowledge. Knowledge through experience is a big help and I appreciate your contributions. However, you really need to step back and take a look at what you have written before you hit the "post reply". Maybe even save it or let it sit for a while. Right or wrong you will be judged by how you treat others with what you write. As of right now...there's a lot of room for improvement. Name calling? At your age? Over the internet? You should know better.

I appreciate your etiquette advice but I still can't see the "clearly advocating" part. I spoke of MY experience ONLY and that was over 50 years ago. What made you have to attempt to insult me? My only point was to tell how well the old noslers worked. . .and they did.

 

[Ray B]

Personal attacks aside, I think the issue here is the .375" 300 grain Nosler Partition bullet. For those fortunate enough to have some first process bullets the issue of what is currently available is not relevant. but for the rest of us who need to purchase from what is currently available, a comparison of the NP bullet is relevant. There seems little doubt that there are current production bullets that have better terminal performance than the current production Nosler Partition. About 25 years ago I did some research for an article in Handloader's Digest and among the bullets tested were first and second production .308" Partitions. Maybe I should do a retest and include current third production bullets. They aren't .375 but the results may be informative.

 

[BeeMaa]

'The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.' L. P. Hartley

Accepting that fact is something completely different. There is no stopping change and progress.

 

[Joker12]

'The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.' L. P. Hartley

Accepting that fact is something completely different. There is no stopping change and progress.

If only change was always progress!

 

[Luvthunt]

Interesting, I learned a few things.