375H&H Mag 300gr Nosler Partition...surpassed?

[CrippledEagle]

Interesting, I learned a few things.

Me too. Mostly about people.

 

[Forrest Halley]

Interesting, I learned a few things.

Me too. Mostly about people.

Welcome to the AH forums, where it doesn't always stand for Africa Hunting...

 

[CrippledEagle]

Welcome to the AH forums, where it doesn't always stand for Africa Hunting...

Ha! Thanks Forrest. I have gotton an education on AH's on here. My girlfriend says it must be a bunch of Liberals. They have to be intellectually and morally superior, even though they don't know who they're talking to.

 

[PerH]

This sounds completely right to me.

I bought some packs of old Norwegian gun magazines once, there it was a test of NP .375 300 grain, in .375 HH and .378 Wby. Pictures of them were almost similar. Andmaround that point here in Norway,so many stories of Nap poor performance was around ,on the level of being named derogatory as just " trophy bullet " ,not meat bullet .

Then things calmed down ,and other bullets came around like Swift and many others like Rhino of SA, Woodleigh,local made copper ones andntons more.

But still something wish the old type should be around like a option to order.

 

[lockingblock]

Take what you read on hunting forums with a giant block of salt. This is even more true when it comes to firearms. The adage about great shooters don’t hunt much and great hunters don’t shoot much is very true. Most hunters aren’t repeating first hand experience or data driven advice…it’s a combination of what they read in a brochure and what they heard from a guy.


Full disclosure- Part of my job involves ballistics and I see about 350k rounds fired per year, but not from anything in 375. I nerd out on bullets far more than is likely needed to kill game animals.

Regarding the NP, it is an exceptional bullet. It has the widest velocity envelope of any premium bullet that I would trust on DG. That’s a real issue with many companies (woodleigh, Barnes, etc) and the NP does a great job at medium to low velocity. This allows you to use heavy for caliber projectiles and aids in penetration. It is not bonded, but I’ve not seen any issues with this in practical performance terms as it mushrooms cleanly and evenly, penetrates in a straight and predictable like, and penetrates to a depth that meets or exceeds performance of similar weight premium bullets.

The NP also has a couple of benefits- Early upset with short neck length. In terminal ballistics world, neck length is the distance measured from the point where the bullet impacts the target to the point at which it expands. Many bullets have long necks…bad performance as those first few inches are critical. The NP generally expands within 3-5 inches of ballistic gel. Real world, it will be 2-3 inches of tissue. That is great performance and leads to substantially better terminal performance.

Additionally, the partition ensures that expansion will never prevent penetration and that you can punch through bone without fear of bullet failure.

For reference on bullet toughness, the FBI Ballistic Research Facility tested the partition to their specs on interim barriers like windshield glass and similar. It was one of the few that passed. The others were a derivative of the bear claw and a Winchester solid base that’s similar to a bear claw as well.

The NP is a great bullet. It will kill anything that can be killed with a rifle. Use it with confidence.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

As directed I will read your post with a block of salt @lockingblock

 

[Clodo Ferreira]

Hi llockinblock,

Agree 100%!!! Make mine your words!

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Take what you read on hunting forums with a giant block of salt. This is even more true when it comes to firearms. The adage about great shooters don’t hunt much and great hunters don’t shoot much is very true. Most hunters aren’t repeating first hand experience or data driven advice…it’s a combination of what they read in a brochure and what they heard from a guy.


Full disclosure- Part of my job involves ballistics and I see about 350k rounds fired per year, but not from anything in 375. I nerd out on bullets far more than is likely needed to kill game animals.

Regarding the NP, it is an exceptional bullet. It has the widest velocity envelope of any premium bullet that I would trust on DG. That’s a real issue with many companies (woodleigh, Barnes, etc) and the NP does a great job at medium to low velocity. This allows you to use heavy for caliber projectiles and aids in penetration. It is not bonded, but I’ve not seen any issues with this in practical performance terms as it mushrooms cleanly and evenly, penetrates in a straight and predictable like, and penetrates to a depth that meets or exceeds performance of similar weight premium bullets.

The NP also has a couple of benefits- Early upset with short neck length. In terminal ballistics world, neck length is the distance measured from the point where the bullet impacts the target to the point at which it expands. Many bullets have long necks…bad performance as those first few inches are critical. The NP generally expands within 3-5 inches of ballistic gel. Real world, it will be 2-3 inches of tissue. That is great performance and leads to substantially better terminal performance.

Additionally, the partition ensures that expansion will never prevent penetration and that you can punch through bone without fear of bullet failure.

For reference on bullet toughness, the FBI Ballistic Research Facility tested the partition to their specs on interim barriers like windshield glass and similar. It was one of the few that passed. The others were a derivative of the bear claw and a Winchester solid base that’s similar to a bear claw as well.

The NP is a great bullet. It will kill anything that can be killed with a rifle. Use it with confidence.

Have you or anyone else compared the NP to a Swift A-Frame or North Fork Bonded Core using the same test setup?

I ask this as a fan of the Nosler Partition, it was the original premium bullet in my mind. I’ve used it on numerous animals in the USA with no complaints. I would do so again. That said, I do believe that Swift and North Fork improved upon the NP.

 

[CrippledEagle]

Take what you read on hunting forums with a giant block of salt. This is even more true when it comes to firearms. The adage about great shooters don’t hunt much and great hunters don’t shoot much is very true. Most hunters aren’t repeating first hand experience or data driven advice…it’s a combination of what they read in a brochure and what they heard from a guy.


Full disclosure- Part of my job involves ballistics and I see about 350k rounds fired per year, but not from anything in 375. I nerd out on bullets far more than is likely needed to kill game animals.

Regarding the NP, it is an exceptional bullet. It has the widest velocity envelope of any premium bullet that I would trust on DG. That’s a real issue with many companies (woodleigh, Barnes, etc) and the NP does a great job at medium to low velocity. This allows you to use heavy for caliber projectiles and aids in penetration. It is not bonded, but I’ve not seen any issues with this in practical performance terms as it mushrooms cleanly and evenly, penetrates in a straight and predictable like, and penetrates to a depth that meets or exceeds performance of similar weight premium bullets.

The NP also has a couple of benefits- Early upset with short neck length. In terminal ballistics world, neck length is the distance measured from the point where the bullet impacts the target to the point at which it expands. Many bullets have long necks…bad performance as those first few inches are critical. The NP generally expands within 3-5 inches of ballistic gel. Real world, it will be 2-3 inches of tissue. That is great performance and leads to substantially better terminal performance.

Additionally, the partition ensures that expansion will never prevent penetration and that you can punch through bone without fear of bullet failure.

For reference on bullet toughness, the FBI Ballistic Research Facility tested the partition to their specs on interim barriers like windshield glass and similar. It was one of the few that passed. The others were a derivative of the bear claw and a Winchester solid base that’s similar to a bear claw as well.

The NP is a great bullet. It will kill anything that can be killed with a rifle. Use it with confidence.

 

[CrippledEagle]

Take what you read on hunting forums with a giant block of salt. This is even more true when it comes to firearms. The adage about great shooters don’t hunt much and great hunters don’t shoot much is very true. Most hunters aren’t repeating first hand experience or data driven advice…it’s a combination of what they read in a brochure and what they heard from a guy.


Full disclosure- Part of my job involves ballistics and I see about 350k rounds fired per year, but not from anything in 375. I nerd out on bullets far more than is likely needed to kill game animals.

Regarding the NP, it is an exceptional bullet. It has the widest velocity envelope of any premium bullet that I would trust on DG. That’s a real issue with many companies (woodleigh, Barnes, etc) and the NP does a great job at medium to low velocity. This allows you to use heavy for caliber projectiles and aids in penetration. It is not bonded, but I’ve not seen any issues with this in practical performance terms as it mushrooms cleanly and evenly, penetrates in a straight and predictable like, and penetrates to a depth that meets or exceeds performance of similar weight premium bullets.

The NP also has a couple of benefits- Early upset with short neck length. In terminal ballistics world, neck length is the distance measured from the point where the bullet impacts the target to the point at which it expands. Many bullets have long necks…bad performance as those first few inches are critical. The NP generally expands within 3-5 inches of ballistic gel. Real world, it will be 2-3 inches of tissue. That is great performance and leads to substantially better terminal performance.

Additionally, the partition ensures that expansion will never prevent penetration and that you can punch through bone without fear of bullet failure.

For reference on bullet toughness, the FBI Ballistic Research Facility tested the partition to their specs on interim barriers like windshield glass and similar. It was one of the few that passed. The others were a derivative of the bear claw and a Winchester solid base that’s similar to a bear claw as well.

The NP is a great bullet. It will kill anything that can be killed with a rifle. Use it with confidence.

Almost everything this man said is true and spot on, but I suspect, like myself, he is talking about the original earlier NP bullet. I have spent time in the ballistic lab in Bend with John and Bob Nosler and Chub Eastman but that was years ago. They constantly tested their bullets against everything out there. Old John's pride wouldn't let him sell anything but the best. Unfortunately, the cost of manufacture had to force changes. Modern manufacturing techniques and material supply won out and the newer production just might not be as good as the originals. I don't know. I have not tested them. What I do know is that the older production had no peer and most likely still doesn't. I just found 5 boxes of 270gr and a box of 300gr. If I can figure out how, I am going to post them for sale on here just so some younger guys can try them and tell the gum flappers who never tried them where the bear defecates in the buckwheat. They kill.

 

[IvW]

And these supposed wonder NP are no longer available....
There are so many proper premium grade expanding bullets available I dont understand why people would even consider them for pg nevermind dg.....
I prefer my bullets to retain maximum weight....
Heavy for caliber bullets that retain weight and are loaded to sensible velocities have always been the winning combination in Africa....if in doubt just check all the classic German and European cartridges.....

 

[CrippledEagle]

Almost everything this man said is true and spot on, but I suspect, like myself, he is talking about the original earlier NP bullet. I have spent time in the ballistic lab in Bend with John and Bob Nosler and Chub Eastman but that was years ago. They constantly tested their bullets against everything out there. Old John's pride wouldn't let him sell anything but the best. Unfortunately, the cost of manufacture had to force changes. Modern manufacturing techniques and material supply won out and the newer production just might not be as good as the originals. I don't know. I have not tested them. What I do know is that the older production had no peer and most likely still doesn't. I just found 5 boxes of 270gr and a box of 300gr. If I can figure out how, I am going to post them for sale on here just so some younger guys can try them and tell the gum flappers who never tried them where the bear defecates in the buckwheat. They kill.

 

[IvW]

Take what you read on hunting forums with a giant block of salt. This is even more true when it comes to firearms. The adage about great shooters don’t hunt much and great hunters don’t shoot much is very true. Most hunters aren’t repeating first hand experience or data driven advice…it’s a combination of what they read in a brochure and what they heard from a guy.


Full disclosure- Part of my job involves ballistics and I see about 350k rounds fired per year, but not from anything in 375. I nerd out on bullets far more than is likely needed to kill game animals.

Regarding the NP, it is an exceptional bullet. It has the widest velocity envelope of any premium bullet that I would trust on DG. That’s a real issue with many companies (woodleigh, Barnes, etc) and the NP does a great job at medium to low velocity. This allows you to use heavy for caliber projectiles and aids in penetration. It is not bonded, but I’ve not seen any issues with this in practical performance terms as it mushrooms cleanly and evenly, penetrates in a straight and predictable like, and penetrates to a depth that meets or exceeds performance of similar weight premium bullets.

The NP also has a couple of benefits- Early upset with short neck length. In terminal ballistics world, neck length is the distance measured from the point where the bullet impacts the target to the point at which it expands. Many bullets have long necks…bad performance as those first few inches are critical. The NP generally expands within 3-5 inches of ballistic gel. Real world, it will be 2-3 inches of tissue. That is great performance and leads to substantially better terminal performance.

Additionally, the partition ensures that expansion will never prevent penetration and that you can punch through bone without fear of bullet failure.

For reference on bullet toughness, the FBI Ballistic Research Facility tested the partition to their specs on interim barriers like windshield glass and similar. It was one of the few that passed. The others were a derivative of the bear claw and a Winchester solid base that’s similar to a bear claw as well.

The NP is a great bullet. It will kill anything that can be killed with a rifle. Use it with confidence.

So you regard a NP better than Swift A-Frame, Northfork, Bitterroot, Rhino, TBBC, etc. For DG game? African DG?

Yet out of 350 thousand fired bullets inspected by you per year, you have not seen any if these in 375 H&H or bigger caliber?

So what NP are you inspecting per year that draws you to this conclusion?

 

[CrippledEagle]

And these supposed wonder NP are no longer available....
There are so many proper premium grade expanding bullets available I dont understand why people would even consider them for pg nevermind dg.....
I prefer my bullets to retain maximum weight....
Heavy for caliber bullets that retain weight and are loaded to sensible velocities have always been the winning combination in Africa....if in doubt just check all the classic German and European cartridges.....

Opinions are like AH's, everybody has one and usually know one or two also. Just to show you kids what the old 300gr Nosler Partition will do, I am going to the trouble to take a pic of one of my boys. It was a followup shot after a good heart shot, and he was already falling but adrenaline takes over. He was only a 46 pounder, but you can clearly see the initial expansion on the front side and the exit through the bottom of the root.

 

[Tom Leoni]

@BeeMaa - For plains game, a 300gr Nosler Partition will do as well as any other bullet, or better. If I remember correctly, it is one of the earliest "premium bullets" and has racked up an impressive record ever since. The only complaint is that the soft front section sometimes peels back too far and breaks off--thereby leaving you only with the rear portion of the bullet to keep penetrating. Even then, the Partition retains 60% of its weight. For plains game, though, I don't think this would be a concern. Like others have said, if you shoot Nosler Partitions that well in preparation for this hunt, you are good to go.

For dangerous game (save for leopard, for which the Partition is dang near perfect), go with the advice of hunters more experienced than me.

 

[CrippledEagle]

So you regard a NP better than Swift A-Frame, Northfork, Bitterroot, Rhino, TBBC, etc. For DG game? African DG?

Yet out of 350 thousand fired bullets inspected by you per year, you have not seen any if these in 375 H&H or bigger caliber?

So what NP are you inspecting per year that draws you to this conclusion.

 

[BeeMaa]

@BeeMaa - For plains game, a 300gr Nosler Partition will do as well as any other bullet, or better. If I remember correctly, it is one of the earliest "premium bullets" and has racked up an impressive record ever since. The only complaint is that the soft front section sometimes peels back too far and breaks off--thereby leaving you only with the rear portion of the bullet to keep penetrating. Even then, the Partition retains 60% of its weight. For plains game, though, I don't think this would be a concern. Like others have said, if you shoot Nosler Partitions that well in preparation for this hunt, you are good to go.

For dangerous game (save for leopard, for which the Partition is dang near perfect), go with the advice of hunters more experienced than me.

I would agree with you if it were 1949, but the title of the thread is "375H&H Mag 300gr Nosler Partition...surpassed?"

I'm not saying that Nosler hasn't upgraded the NP since 1948 or that it isn't a "good" bullet. Clearly it is. And for a good long time it was THE premium bullet to use for nearly everything.

Just as clear is that it new bullet technology (that wasn't available when the NP made it debut) has made the NP a dinosaur in comparison.

Is it still good...in the right application, sure. Are there better choices...yes. If I were to be setting up a rifle today for hunting Africa, would I consider a NP...no, not for me. It's easier to have one soft and one solid for a 375H&H. Bonded copper jacket/lead core or mono-metal bullets have proven better performance...expansion, penetration and weight retention. With the added bonus of being safe to shoot in new modern cartridges above 3000 fps without loosing the entire front half of the bullet on impact.

But that's me, that's what I like. I have a synthetic Blaser R8, shoot all copper bullets, use a SBE3 with TSS to take down waterfowl. I'm trying to make the best decisions I can to harvest game in the most ethical manner possible, no matter what I'm shooting. For rifles, the NP is relegated to punching paper at range day.

I know others feel differently and that's fine too. A specific example would be an old rifle that's used for deer hunting and was set up for NP's originally. No reason to change that combination.

 

[lockingblock]

So you regard a NP better than Swift A-Frame, Northfork, Bitterroot, Rhino, TBBC, etc. For DG game? African DG?

Yet out of 350 thousand fired bullets inspected by you per year, you have not seen any if these in 375 H&H or bigger caliber?

So what NP are you inspecting per year that draws you to this conclusion?

I didn’t say it was better than those bullets (I would say it’s superior to all cup and core designs). I said it was as capable as other premium bullets.

I have fired large caliber NPs, but frankly, the large caliber versions of most premium bullets aren’t nearly as strained as the small calibers. If you want real data, generally you can look at the 5.56 version of a given projectile and look at how it penetrates barriers like windshield glass when it’s above 3200 FPS. That is generally a much more severe test than ballistic gel for a 375 at moderate speeds.

Designs that perform in 5.56 tend to scale up very well. It’s why the Federal T3 works so well. It’s a Bear Claw scaled down to 223. https://le.vistaoutdoor.com/ammunition/federal/rifle/details.aspx?id=679

That same test protocol was used on the NP and it passed on par with mono, TBBC, solid base, and a few others.

It’s a good bullet in a family of other good bullets. Most premium bullets are more than adequate and work very well.

If the NP has an advantage, it’s that it’s insensitive to velocity variation. It expands at velocities that would be below the expansion threshold for a lot of “tough” bullets. While doing this, it retains that rear shank to ensure penetration and relatively straight line performance.

Personally, I tend to prefer monometal bullets and have found them to be ideal when I go a bit lighter for caliber as they are velocity sensitive. I like to drive them into heavy muscle and bone, like a shoulder, and I have gotten good results. Those were all x bullets. For my upcoming safari, I intend to use Hornady Outfitter and I have full confidence.

 

[Mountaineer]

If bonding was necessary, Nosler would bond the partition’s. Don’t overthink things.

 

[BeeMaa]

If bonding was necessary, Nosler would bond the partition’s. Don’t overthink things.

They did bond it…it’s called the Nosler AccuBond. Crazy huh?

Only took them 50 years to figure it out.