375H&H Mag 300gr Nosler Partition...surpassed?

[BeeMaa]

Thank you all for your responses.
It seems that the Nosler Partition (although very good) has indeed been surpassed by more modern designs, at least in my opinion.
I know the PT is a good bullet, but I'm leaning toward the Swift A-Frame, Norma Oryx and Barnes TSX.
I will also be looking at the Safari Arms website and may consider them for a custom bullet/load.
Waiting to hear back from my PH on his ideas, but I will probably be taking at least 2 (possibly 3) kinds of ammo for the PG hunt.
That way I can use the proper tool for the job at hand, and I truly believe that this will be the right approach.
Now it's time to explain to the Department of Finance that I want to spend $$$ on ammo...we'll see how that goes.

Being able to draw from the collective knowledge here has been a real help, and I truly appreciate it.
Thank you again.

 

[Clodo Ferreira]

Good luck BeeMaa,

Any of the bullets you have decided to use is as good as a Nosler Partition! The three you have selected are more than adequate for PG. Certainly you don't need a Barnes TSX in the .375 H&H for plain game, but it don't hurt either! If you use the Barnes, don't use more than 270 grs. in the .375. Barnes TSX needs all the velocity they can get. Ideally I would use the new 270 grs LRX in .375". And even the 250 grs TTSX would be also my pick for PG. You can reach 2700 and 2800 f/s respectively, for assured expansion and more than enough penetration !!\
And last but not least, the Nosler Partition has not been surpassed. There are other options, nothing else. By the way it cannot be compared the Norma Oryx with the Nosler Partition....!!! Beeing very good, is not in the same league...!
Good luck!

 

[Ridgewalker]

Thank you all for your responses.
It seems that the Nosler Partition (although very good) has indeed been surpassed by more modern designs, at least in my opinion.
I know the PT is a good bullet, but I'm leaning toward the Swift A-Frame, Norma Oryx and Barnes TSX.

Just so I’m clear on what all has been suggested, this is my understanding:
PG Nosler Partitions work fine.
DG you should move up a notch in toughness to Swift A-frames, Federal TBBC, Barnes TSX.

I’d suggest you start by purchasing a box of each and find the ones that shoot the best in your gun. Example: Federal makes their Cape-Shok line with TTBC, Swift A-frame and Nosler Partitions. In my gun, they all have within 25 FPS velocity; group in 1 1/2” or less; and groups within 2” of each other. The Swift A-frame shoots the smallest groups. Since the point of impact is virtually the same. I could use the tougher bullets on DG and the Partitions on lighter game with the same scope settings.
With a little luck, yours may do the same.

The Hornady DGS also hit within 1” of the group and worked on my duiker well. It may do the same for you.

Best of luck finding what works best for you!

 

[Clodo Ferreira]

Hi Ridgewalker,

Agree!! I try to use same weight but different construction bullets in all my rifles, trying to get same point of impact.

 

[tarbe]

I read this entire thread....then had to go back to the first post to remind myself exactly what it is you plan to hunt with your .375.

I could not find the game list.

Can you please help those of us challenged in comprehension...exactly what is it you plan to hunt? There have been a few twists and turns in the thread and I believe I am a bit confused!

Thanks!


Tim

 

[BeeMaa]

Blesbuck
Blue/Black Wildebeest
Eland, Cape
Gemsbok (Oryx)
Kudu
Nayala
Red Hartebeest
Sable
Waterbuck
Zebra, Burchells

A few for my bride and the rest for me.
The original post was all about PG not DG, but there was a little twist there on page 3.

 

[Clodo Ferreira]

I did understand, from the begining, you would go after PG, Eland the biggest.
Thank you to confirma.

 

[tarbe]

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

I would not hesitate to take an accurate-in-my-rifle load using the 300gr Partition in the 375 H&H after that entire list.

Heck, I'd take them all with the 300 H&H with a 220gr Partition. That was going to be my load in '15 until I landed on a really great shooting load with the 180gr TTSX. BTW, that TTSX shot through both shoulders of an Eland.

But I also agree with the consensus here that for Buffalo, you would be much better in general with an A-Frame or North Fork or a good mono-metal.

Within reason, the old Indian Guide saying is appropriate...."Any gun good, shootum good". The 300gr Partition in .375 will kill an awful lot of stuff well if you shoot it well. Not the best for everything...but nothing is.

 

[One Day...]

Waiting to hear back from my PH on his ideas, but I will probably be taking at least 2 (possibly 3) kinds of ammo for the PG hunt.
That way I can use the proper tool for the job at hand, and I truly believe that this will be the right approach.

Well... been there, done that, as I am sure many in this thread have, and it is where best may turn out to be the enemy of good... I plaid that game with combo moose/caribou; brown bear/black bear; elk/mule deer; roe buck/red stag; chamois/mouflon; etc. hunts, and, likely due to my feeble mind, courted disaster shuffling through ballistic cards as game got tired of waiting for my shot and leisurely ambled away (OK, not quite, but you get what I am getting at ;-) and I did miss clean a few times, a foot over or a foot under, for not remembering in the heat of the action that I was not using the same load / trajectory as the day before. There is a whole lot of good to be said about the good old KISS (keep it simple etc.) principle: one load, one trajectory, aim, shoot, hit.

My recommendation would be to select the gun/caliber/load/bullet that will work on the largest/toughest game on your list and use it for everything. Period. Of course, there are reasonable limitations to the concept: you probably do not want to use your .470 double buff gun for a 300 yard shot at a duiker LOL, but, again, I think that you get what I mean.

Interestingly, I too will be in Africa this summer with an almost similar PG hunt in Eastern Cape, then a buff hunt in Limpopo. I am taking a .340 Wby with 250 gr Partitions for PG (hits harder than a .375 and flies as flat as a 7 mm Mag or .300 Mag) and a .470 double with 500 gr. for buff. If my opinion had any merit (?), I would suggest that your .375, even with .270 gr bullets, might (?) run out of reach IF (big "if") you hunt PG in a very open landscape (e.g. Eastern Cape where it is somewhat common to shoot at 300 yard and maybe more). Not an issue in the bush, but these "bergs" out there have a lot of open space... As my byline states: no such ting as too dead, so the .300 gr .375 will do it all on PG (as it has been doing for over 100 years), and it does reach reasonably far, but you do get into rainbow curved trajectories passed 300 yards... Just another thought to integrate in your delicious angst to get it perfect ;-)

PS: please do not interpret my thoughts as a suggestion to go 'play sniper' out there and shoot game at 600, 700, 800 etc. yards as some "hunting" videos seem to condone. I happen to shoot steel at these and longer distances, and I can assure you that there is a whole lot of difference between a shooting range and a hunting field... and likely a whole lot of misses, doubtful hits, and crippling not shown in these videos... I personally self-limit myself on game to 400 yards at the most, preferably 350 yards, although I regularly ring the gong at 1,000 meters and beyond...

 

[BeeMaa]

There is a whole lot of good to be said about the good old KISS (keep it simple etc.) principle: one load, one trajectory, aim, shoot, hit.

If I end up taking multiple loads, they will all have similar bullet profiles and shoot to the same POI, or at least close.
I am a big believer in KISS, and I will do my level best to do so...but keeping it simple doesn't mean being close minded.
Gotta keep your eyes open and adapt when changes come along, and that is true with ammo as advancements are made.

Interestingly, I too will be in Africa this summer with an almost similar PG hunt in Eastern Cape, then a buff hunt in Limpopo. I am taking a .340 Wby with 250 gr Partitions for PG (hits harder than a .375 and flies as flat as a 7 mm Mag or .300 Mag) and a .470 double with 500 gr. for buff. If my opinion had any merit (?), I would suggest that your .375, even with .270 gr bullets, might (?) run out of reach IF (big "if") you hunt PG in a very open landscape (e.g. Eastern Cape where it is somewhat common to shoot at 300 yard and maybe more). Not an issue in the bush, but these "bergs" out there have a lot of open space... As my byline states: no such ting as too dead, so the .300 gr .375 will do it all on PG (as it has been doing for over 100 years), and it does reach reasonably far, but you do get into rainbow curved trajectories passed 300 yards... Just another thought to integrate in your delicious angst to get it perfect ;-)

We will be hunting for a total of 10 days, starting in Limpopo and heading to a second camp in Free State for some other animals.
In speaking with my PH, expected distances are less than 200 yards and in many cases 100-150 yards.
Wife and I are ringing steel at 200 with regularity with our current loads, but will see how the new stuff shoots.
I personally have a hunting shot limit of 300 yards with this particular rifle with a 5x scope, so no world record sniper action for me.

I wish you luck (although wishing you skill would be better) with your upcoming hunt.
Let me know if you end up getting a set of 20ga barrels for your K-gun.
Birds are mighty fun, another one of my passions.

Cheers

 

[Daga Boy]

As to general bullet selection for dangerous game, in 375H&H (or Ruger), you actually need to be a bit more specific. The Nosler partition will do a great job on cats and it is also OK on thick skinned game, but for dedicated thick skinned game load I would suggest a monometal or a very tough lead core bullet like the Swift. Barnes and Peregrine (both monometals) tend to rule the roost for this application.
I note (with considerable interest) the story about the giraffe which was hit but not downed with a .458 Lott. I accept that it could have happened and can confirm that the skin is very thick and the bones are heavy. Only one problem: What bullet? If a lightweight bullet then I can understand' however any decently constructed bullet in .338 -.375 range will do a fine job on giraffe.

 

[Clodo Ferreira]

I must say I would be very confortable useing a 30-06 with either 180/200grs Nosler Partition bullets.

About the .375 H&H and long range HUNTING. I have and use a .375 since 1992. I have used it for hunting Red Deer in the Patagonian Andes, where long shots are rather common. And also for wild cattle around here and Water Buffalo in the north east of our country, where shots are at close to medium ranges.
I tried, among others similar (mainly 250 grs Sierra) 5 boxes (still have 1/2) of the early 250 grs plain and original Barnes X. They can reach without any trouble 2850 f/s. This was, and is, a VERY GOOD long range load for the .375!! With the new TTSX, a way better bullet, is the same, better yet. With (I have not tried yet) the LRX 270 grs, 2750 f/s is a good and entirely safe load with the right powders. In my experience, the .375 is more than ample for any long range hunting!
The Accubond 260 grs .375, I now use for this, is an almost PERFECT long range big game bullet in this cartridge!
So sight in the .375 with 0 at 200 yards with any of these and you are done.
Of course, practice, and practice with the load you will actually use (with the 250 grs Sierra you can reproduce all the above loads/trayectories at a lower cost for practice....), at 50, 100, 200, 300 and more if its able for you, engrave it in your mind and past it in a paper and thats it! This is the ONLY way with ANY cartridge, to be proficient at this "job".
Once more, have a very good hunt, BeeMaa.
CF

 

[One Day...]

Amen!

It is all a matter of perspective and truly what and where you hunt.
I have owned a .375 H&H (custom Dumoulin from Belgium) for 30 years and love it, but I have come to evolve to the .340 Wby because the trajectory is +3.9" at 100 yd, +4.6 at 200, 0 at 300, and still OK with -10.9 at 400. It gives me a bit more reach than the .375 H&H +1.9 at 100, 0 at 200, -8.2 at 300, but -23.9 at 400, in case I have to take follow up shots on fleeing wounded larger plains game in open space. And at all ranges, the energy is significantly higher than that of the .375; the diameter is so close (0.035 difference) that I do not loose much in term of frontal area; and the sectional density is higher: . 338 250 gr, SD = .313; .375 300 gr, SD = .305.
Beside, my .340 early full stainless (not current silver coated carbon steel production) Mark V in a Bell & Carlson Medalist is a trusted and accurate go-anywhere, do any-thing gun, that has become an extension of my right arm ;-)

 

[One Day...]

but keeping it simple doesn't mean being close minded. Gotta keep your eyes open and adapt when changes come along, and that is true with ammo as advancements are made.

Hmmm... I do not believe that I was making a point about being close minded, keeping your eyes closed, or not adapting. I was suggesting to consider the potential downfall of using different loads/trajectories on the SAME HUNT ;-)
But to each his own and if you interpret this as being close minded, blind or retrograde, that is just fine with me. I am not really in for confrontational posting ;-)
Anyway, less than 200 yards with a .375 is perfect. Happy hunting.

 

[Clodo Ferreira]

Hello One Day,

Agree with you. The 340 Weatherby is a GREAT one! Rarely spoken about. Unsurpassed for what's your plan. With the Holland, If you extend the 0 to 250 meters, with the Barnes TTSX 250 grs or the GREAT Accubond 260 grs, well, would not be a 340 Weatherby, but good enough. And is what I have, or BeeMaa, by the way!!!

 

[One Day...]

That is so true @Clodo Ferreira.
One of the great contributions that modern bullets have made is that they have really broken down the barriers between calibers. 40 or 30 years ago you were hard pressed to find easily .375 ammo in anything other than .300 gr, soft or solid (which by the way were not really "solid" as in mono-metal, but steel jacketed lead core), and that is what the .375 was: a very, very good platform to launch 300 gr.
Life was simple then LOL. You launched 200 gr with a .300; 300 gr with a .375; .400 gr with a .416; and .500 gr with a .450/.470. Simple and proven ;-)
Nowadays, with lighter bullets of different design (mostly mono-metal), the .375 completely overlaps (well, almost completely) the .338 niche, and also drives deep into even the .300 niche. And the same is true on the other side of the continuum, as with the right load the .375 really steps into .416 territory. The .375 was, is, and I expect will remain, a darn near universal caliber. No question whatsoever.
The only potential drawback is that for these mono-metal slugs to expand, you really need high velocity, otherwise they tend to behave like solids (which technically they in fact are) at longer range/lower velocity. Now, mind you, a solid through the vital will kill whatever walks the earth, but as @IvW indicated earlier, you may be in for a long walk before you collect your animal, and you better hope that you find it before the blood starts drying on the entry/exit wound(s). Yet on the other end, too much velocity, and they tend to shed those beautiful petals... Dang, life is imperfect!
Also, in truth, the laws of physics are pretty immutable, and as you drop in bullet weight in order to gain in velocity/trajectory, you also drop in sectional density. A 270 gr .375 is already down to .274, and a 250 gr .375 is down all the way to.254. You will pay the price in penetration, regardless of the construction of the bullet, even on a solid.
So, here as everywhere, there ain't no free lunch, and we all end up picking the compromise that we think works for us, and we each bring our own set or experience, bias, beliefs, ego, information, expectations, etc. - not forgetting buying power - to that compromise decision.
I guess that if TRULY there was one objectively and unarguably better mousetrap we would all be using it, right?

 

[Foxi]

But over time it has evolved and improved. Is your Chevy truck you drive still the same Chevy you drove 40+ yrs ago? .

I often cry for the quality of my old mercedes when i compare it with today's.

But the game hasn't changed.
Good shooting is the best answer and with NP bullets is one of the best choices you can do.
Foxi

 

[BeeMaa]

I just heard back from my PH.
He said the NP is all I will need for the game I'm planning on taking...however to give the A-Frame a try and see how it shoots.
I know some rifles shoot better with a certain type/weight/speed of ammo.
If there is a large (>2" @ 200yds) difference in where the different ammo brands impact, only one kind will be making the trip.
Department of Finance approved the acquisition of Swift A-Frame and Norma Oryx...they are on the way.

 

[smokepole]

have used 375 np for 50 years..........brown bear, moose, caribou, black bear and pg in africa. going for buff next month and it will be going with me.

 

[Foxi]

recently I found this: