Would you hunt with a operator hunting illegaly?

[BRICKBURN]

I agree with most of your premis but as an American it is legal for me to hunt a CBL but illegal for me to bring it home so is my hunt legal or illegal? Same with elephant from Mozambique.

It is legal to hunt.
Your government makes it impossible to import. If you import the Lion it would be an illegal importation.
Don't go lumping matters together.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Before this thread gets too detailed, I think it best to remind everyone that this is an open forum on the internet. Not everyone reading these posts will have our best interests at heart. I suggest you exercise good judgement in what you post.

I was thinking this when I saw the thread title, might be best to keep these to the campfire.

 

[Hunt anything]

It is legal to hunt.
Your government makes it impossible to import. If you import the Lion it would be an illegal importation.
Don't go lumping matters together.

Understood, I misread his definitions of legal hunts

 

[BourbonTrail]

I was thinking this when I saw the thread title, might be best to keep these to the campfire.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Not intentionally, no. However, as traveling hunters we have to rely on the PH to know and adhere to all local laws.
...............

Wandering around blindly trusting a stranger?!
I was quite concerned about the matter as an international hunter. So much so, that
I spent 10 days in PH school and passed the tests before I went hunting. It also allowed me to participate more in the hunting, and not just be a shooter. ( I also eventually obtained my PH license in Mozambique.)
It also gave me a great respect for the hardworking PH's out there.
(Trophy judging for a friend without backup from an experienced PH! Holy hell, the pressure I felt was enormous. I pulled that one off luckily.)

Learning the local laws both federal/national and provincial in RSA is an interesting adventure and hurt my head doing it.

What is quite legal in one RSA province may not be in another. One species can be vermin in one province and in another it is protected and requires a hunting license.
Laws also change over time, so be careful.

Interestingly, some of the RSA laws noted earlier in this thread do not necessarily apply under certain conditions in RSA. "CAE"s for instance, create a material change in what is allowed. Lights at night for instance.

How many of you have asked to see a CAE before you hunted a property?
Do you know the species that a CAE does not impact?
How many of you have asked to see the written agreement that the Outfitter is required to have to conduct a hunt on land he does not own?
How many have checked into the Outfitters License?
How many have seen the PH's current license?

Any of these not being present could make your hunt illegal.

Master Hunting of Professional Hunter in Namibia. Do you know the difference?

Anyone allowed their spouse or child to "hunt" on their permit or license?

Every country has its own laws and it takes some significant work to be remain current.

Anyone hunted with an RSA PH while in Zimbabwe? Who was the PH of record?


I look forward to the tales.

 

[baxterb]

Never. They are swindling money into their own pockets which should have gone into wildlife conservation. Conservation which is absolutely mandatory to keep our passion of sustainable hunting possible in the long run.

Even if it’s for the most selfish reasons, we should never support this practice because we have to look at the big picture. Wildlife conservation needs funds and those funds are generated by hunting. If those funds aren’t going into wildlife conservation, then this is plain thievery.

I did do something legally grey though, in Africa. It happened a long time ago, so I can freely talk about it now. During my life’s first African safari to Kenya in 1974, I hunted a Cape buffalo with a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum. My white hunter permitted me to do this, even though the minimum legal caliber for hunting thick skinned dangerous game (elephant, rhinoceros, hippopotamus, Cape buffalo) in Kenya was .400 bore from 1958 to the year of the hunting ban in 1977.

I’m sure no one will begrudge me that. But it did happen.
View attachment 561867

Just curious who your white hunter was?

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Just curious who your white hunter was?

Mr. J. Cheffings, Baxter. He is/was a good man (I certainly hope that he is still amongst the living as I never saw him again after 1974).

 

[Ontario Hunter]

How many of us have shot from a bakkie?

What is a bakkie?

 

[Dewald]

I feel like I remember reading here it was illegal in RSA, maybe it’s province by province? I could be wrong though, I usually am

KZN from the hunting proclamation of 1974- strictly no shooting within 200m from a vehicle, unless culling with a permit. Strictly no shooting 30 min after sunset unless culling with a permit or hunting animals not classified as game. Interestingly bushpig, from those days are not classified as game, but vermin.
No hunting on any unfenced property out of season
No hunting, fenced or not without written permission by the landowner.
No hunting TOPS Species without the TOPS permit.
These things are often overlooked, and the paperwork only sorted out after the hunt.

 

[375Fox]

What is a bakkie?

Afrikaans for hunting vehicle/truck/Land cruiser

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I generally only hunt "common" animals. Red lechwe and Barbary sheep were the only Appendix 2 animals I've yet taken. I doubt I'll be shooting anything any more exotic than those two. I don't want an animal so badly that I have to shoot it illegally. The last trip I shot the wrong wildebeest but it was the PH's fault for putting me on the wrong animal. I checked with him twice: "The one on the far left?" "Yes, far left." It got sorted out ... eventually. I didn't have to pay the "fine." Enough said.

I almost always get to meet the landowner. I presume everyone is on the same page. Don't feel I need to check up on anything. I know what is shootable before we get on the place. Sometimes we see other trophies. If the PH can call, he'll see if the owner is agreeable. 2022 when we were on a place for nyala, a very nice kudu walked out. It was probably shootable but no cell coverage so it walked. No problem. Very same thing happened a couple days before when we were driving to the black wildebeest farm. The tracker spotted a SPECTACULAR once in a lifetime trophy kudu bull not 200 yards off the road. He was a monster! But who's property and are kudu shootable? Turns out it was on the same property and owner was okay with harvesting kudu. Oh well. My lodge and both those PHs are straight up. The wildebeest guy was not a great PH but not a lawbreaker.

 

[Dewald]

KZN from the hunting ordinance of 1974- strictly no shooting within 200m from a vehicle, unless culling with a permit.
Strictly no shooting 30 min after sunset unless culling with a permit or hunting animals not classified as game. Interestingly bushpig, from those days are not classified as game, but vermin.
No hunting on any unfenced property out of season
No hunting, fenced or not without written permission by the landowner.
No hunting TOPS Species without the TOPS permit.

Calling- again for example black back jackal and caracal are not seen as game, but rather vermin in the hunting proclamation, hence calling is legal.
Shotguns - ordinary game may be hunted with shotguns - that includes grey duiker, impala, bushbuck males.
Open game needs no license, just permission from the land owner - blesbuck and springbuck.

These things are often overlooked, and the paperwork only sorted out after the hunt.

 

[Hunt anything]

African game laws are not the only tough ones to figure out. In Alabama it’s illegal for someone to accompany a licensed hunter without a hunting license. The only way I learned this was listening to an outdoor show on radio when they were interviewing the head of the department of conservation.

 

[freefall]

I haven't read all the replies, and am unfamiliar with African law, but as a general rule I would not hunt with someone doing illegal things unless I thought I'd enjoy being his cellmate.
Up here, YOU are liable for knowing the game regs AND WHERE YOU ARE!
Haven't actually heard of any clients being incarcerated for hunting in a park, but plenty have lost large $ in fines and seized guns and gear.
And most of these were guys that had been dropped by "professionals".

 

[Ontario Hunter]

African game laws are not the only tough ones to figure out. In Alabama it’s illegal for someone to accompany a licensed hunter without a hunting license. The only way I learned this was listening to an outdoor show on radio when they were interviewing the head of the department of conservation.

I guess I can understand that. Stops non-resident without license from tagging along with a licensed resident and having him tag the animal the non-resident actually shoots.

 

[Hunt anything]

I guess I can understand that. Stops non-resident without license from tagging along with a licensed resident and having him tag the animal the non-resident actually shoots.

In that instance I agree, my wife can’t even tag along on a dove hunt on my neighbors property or sit in a deer blind unless it’s on our own land.

 

[wesheltonj]

I haven't read all the replies, and am unfamiliar with African law, but as a general rule I would not hunt with someone doing illegal things unless I thought I'd enjoy being his cellmate.
Up here, YOU are liable for knowing the game regs AND WHERE YOU ARE!
Haven't actually heard of any clients being incarcerated for hunting in a park, but plenty have lost large $ in fines and seized guns and gear.
And most of these were guys that had been dropped by "professionals".

Here's a couple:

South African Professional Hunter Charged with Federal Crimes for Illegal Elephant Hunts

www.justice.gov

Owners of Safari Company Indicted for Illegal Rhino Hunts

The owners of Out of Africa Adventurous Safaris were charged with conspiracy to sell illegal rhinoceros hunts in South Africa in order to defraud American hunters, money laundering and secretly trafficking in rhino horns, announced Sam Hirsch Acting Assistant Attorney General for the Justice...

www.justice.gov

US Army officer charged for illegally hunting on HSAAP property

KINGSPORT, Tenn. (WJHL) — A high-ranking field officer at Holston Army Ammunition Plant (HSAAP) faces several charges after the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency (TWRA) accused him of illegally s…

www.wjhl.com

 

[CoElkHunter]

There should be a distinction made between an illegal hunt and a possibly less than legal method. I don’t care about shooting from truck, using a 9.3 instead of a 375, etc. I think this thread we be about hunts without proper authorizations, hunts in areas in ownership disputes, outside PHs offering hunts through corrupt officials. Those are stories I’d like to hear not whether shooting off truck is legal.

I agree. As far as hunting from the vehicle law, the above regs. state a physically disabled person OR elderly (over 65) are allowed to hunt from a vehicle. Given it seems that many of the members here are over 65yoa, he/she could hunt from a vehicle legally in South Africa. I wouldn't but maybe someone with medical issues might have too? I too was thinking of more serious issues being exposed that could get a hunter thrown into some obscure African jail and having to eat sardine burritos and ramen for weeks until their trial. LOL

 

[wesheltonj]

As for hunting out of the back of a pick up truck if if its legal that ok with me. I have hunted from the bed of a pick up truck many times. You go to Mexico, the high rack is common practice. The ranch two over from mine uses a high rack.

 

[Roller]

These storied will not be directed toward PHs who are very much pawns. No names will be used. Locations and countries will in some cases.

Matetsi in Zim? Seems like a lot of stuff going on there