What's the next cartridge your looking to add to your collection and what role will it fill?

[Zambezi]

Thanks for the heads up @geoff rath I hope to be in Caloundra about an hour north or Brisbane. I'll definitely check it out

 

[Osama Mahdi]

30-06 in a scoped Ruger No1 for PG

The Tikka T3x in 30 06 or any other calibers shoot like a dream. Unbelievable accuracy.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Wow Bob, thought you liked “pretty guns” - .35 Whelen’s and nice wood?
That gun pictured is Lethal for sure....it’s looks alone could kill (ugly - reminds me of my Prom date) BUT that likely makes it perfect for the classy game you are pursuing PIGS !

@HankBuck
It's like it's owner ugly but useful. Bought it because it's the closest we can have to a semi auto. Will be grat on pigs loaded with 2 rounds of buckshot followed by 4 solid slugs.
Looking forward to having fun with it.
Bob

 

[WyoBull]

Did you change out the factory barrel? I have read that hard cast so not have good accuracy in factory. I have one myself but have not tried out hard cast.

No, it is completely stock except for the change in magazine.

 

[cmk]

My dear friend,
You are well covered for big game hunting, and I dont think that selling some of the collection will be needed. The trick is in widening horizons.
Let me help with some ideas.

For example:

For hunting, it came to my intention, that a long range fast magnum might fill the gap, something like 338 win mag, bolt action maybe?
Then, starting with IPSC - in which case , CZ Shadow 2 orange, to be considered.
Or starting with clay targets, then Perazzi O/U could be considered....

Aah, you are quite the enabler

While I realize that some of my guns see very little daylight, there are a few that I'd consider if they popped up. Perhaps that double should be a 375 Flanged instead? Or even a 333 Flanged?

A 333 Rimless or a 318 WR in a bolt action would also get my attention. Not that I've even seen either in real life...much less so in a left-hand configuration. So I won't hold my breath. And brass and bullets for 333 are likely rarer than hens teeth... sadly also true for 318 WR.

8x68S is another cartridge I find interesting. Never fired one, but I would take a long look if a suitable rifle came my way.

And the same goes for 450 NE, 7x57, 7x64 or maybe a lever action in 405WCF or 348win, or a sidelock hammergun or..or....but then something in the safe would have to go.

Local legislation only allows you to have 6 hunting rifles/shotguns, and while I used to hate that, I'm starting to change opinion. Having that limit is - for me personally -- a way to focus on what I need. Without it, I would've probably had 15 or 20 rifles that never got fired even once a year. Ultimately that would give me no joy - just more .. stuff.

 

[mark-hunter]

8x68S is another cartridge I find interesting. Never fired one, but I would take a long look if a suitable rifle came my way.

Finding rifle, will be an issue.

Older steyr
Older mauser.
New Sauer 404, Blaser r8.

Rarely produced today

 

[mark-hunter]

The flaw of 8x68, similar as 375 HH... economical, and political.
Political flaw of 8x68:
Born in the wrong place, in wrong time.

German government under Hitlers rule (and Hermann Goering as reichs jagdmaster), took decision to make "the best global" hunting calibar.
This in itself is unusual.
Usually goverments with some military commission decide on new weapon or caliber development for military, but not on sporting weapons.
But, this reflects the political doctrine of reich of that time.

So, 8x68 was created.
But Germany lost the war and this caliber never became globally popular, and was kept in use mostly by number of European hunters, in guns produced in Germany or Austria. Magnum fame took wetaherby, followed by 300 win mag and 338 win mag, and lately modern short magnums.

So, political situation after the war kept this caliber in the darkness.

Economy.
In recent years 8x68 becomes more known, and but still not widespread.
The problem that every economically aware firearm factory under the menagment of bean counters face is: the round is to (bloody) long!

Lenght over all for 8x68 - 87 mm, or 3.425 inch!!!
And the rifle to function properly will need magnum length action. (Same as 375 H&H curse)

So, the factories go budget way and cutting the cost of production, avoiding magnum length action like plague, this caliber again becomes rare.

I was just wondering when somebody on European side will invent something like 8 mm short super magnum to put it in medium action with same ballistics to take place of 8x68, as short magnums are so frequently re-invented in America?! However, in most cases, factories just go Winchester way, and produce 300 win mag, if magnum must be.

O, but wait!

There is something.
8.5 mm to do it all. 8.5x55 Blaser!

8,5x55 Blaser –The New Dimension | PASSION Magazin

www.passion-magazin.de

Next step probably will be to neck down to 8 mm, and voila: The New wonder caliber is invented, new star is born just to avoid magnum length action!!! In the mean time, 8.5x55 should do it all.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

The flaw of 8x68, similar as 375 HH... economical, and political.
Political flaw of 8x68:
Born in the wrong place, in wrong time.

German government under Hitlers rule (and Hermann Goering as reichs jagdmaster), took decision to make "the best global" hunting calibar.
This in itself is unusual.
Usually goverments with some military commission decide on new weapon or caliber development for military, but not on sporting weapons.
But, this reflects the political doctrine of reich of that time.

So, 8x68 was created.
But Germany lost the war and this caliber never became globally popular, and was kept in use mostly by number of European hunters, in guns produced in Germany or Austria. Magnum fame took wetaherby, followed by 300 win mag and 338 win mag, and lately modern short magnums.

So, political situation after the war kept this caliber in the darkness.

Economy.
In recent years 8x68 becomes more known, and but still not widespread.
The problem that every economically aware firearm factory under the menagment of bean counters face is: the round is to (bloody) long!

Lenght over all for 8x68 - 87 mm, or 3.425 inch!!!
And the rifle to function properly will need magnum length action. (Same as 375 H&H curse)

So, the factories go budget way and cutting the cost of production, avoiding magnum length action like plague, this caliber again becomes rare.

I was just wondering when somebody on European side will invent something like 8 mm short super magnum to put it in medium action with same ballistics to take place of 8x68, as short magnums are so frequently re-invented in America?! However, in most cases, factories just go Winchester way, and produce 300 win mag, if magnum must be.

O, but wait!

There is something.
8.5 mm to do it all. 8.5x55 Blaser!

8,5x55 Blaser –The New Dimension | PASSION Magazin

www.passion-magazin.de

Next step probably will be to neck down to 8 mm, and voila: The New wonder caliber is invented, new star is born just to avoid magnum length action!!! In the mean time, 8.5x55 should do it all.

@mark-hunter
Marko you can just get a 325WSM. Now that's a potent 8mm on a short action that would be similar in ballistics to the 8x68.
Bob

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

If I absolutely had to thin out my sporting rifle collection, that's the one I would keep, plus (perhaps) my 1903 Mannlicher in 6.5x54.

Got to keep that MS!

 

[mark-hunter]

325WSM.

Of course, but it is American.

I was referring to European production, getting late to short magnum frenzy, in the lack of global magnum length action production.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Of course, but it is American.

I was referring to European production, getting late to short magnum frenzy, in the lack of global magnum length action production.

@mark-hunter
There's some fine European cartridges that the Americans copied and renamed like the 7x64. They didn't need to develop the 280 could have just used the European cartridges.
If it's NIH ( not invented here) Americans are reluctant to adopt it.
After WW1 the Americans had a love of the Enfield M17 as a battle rifle and wanted it adopted. Due to NIH the government went with the Springfield's ever tho they were set up to manufacture both. The USA actually issued more Enfields than Springfield's in WW1 if my memory serves me correctly.
Bob

 

[mark-hunter]

@Bob Nelson35Whelen
Yes,indeed.
7x64 is very similar to 270 winchester, 7 rem magnum and 280 Remington. And probably few more, but those come first to mind.

But this is also closely related to American gun culture.
In USA wildcatters are common, some make it to the standardization up to SAAMI then to CIP and factory production, some fade away, and some are alive just for seldom use by few enthusiasts

But in America, it is easy, with mostly friendly laws, and large market.

In EU.
New cartridges are reluctantly planned and rarely designed and put in production. Gun production is severely controlled, and gun ownership always under scrutiny - which affects civilian market, and then product marketing. Putting new caliber on Europan market is a planned commercial risk.

In my country, all hunting gun production has stopped in small gunshops (except for one large factory).

As per local law, each new gun must be proved in CIP proof hose. And in the same time, we dont have proof house nor license from CIP. (Nice paradox?) So, this makes small production impossible.

So, this means that when a licensed gunsmith makes new gun (or even just change the barrel) he must go to neighboring Austria to make one CIP proof test. 1000 km trip, cross two countries, for 20 eur CIP proof test.

So no sane gunsmith wants to make new custom gun, nor to change the barrel on old gun. Its pain in the neck.

About wildcats
There is government data base of all calibers and rifle models that comes from actual registry of civilian guns.
The database mainly relays on SAAMI and CIP standards, plus actual gun models imported and registered on civilian market.

So when some new gun is first time imported or registered in the country (new model), or new caliber first time registered in the country, they take it from legal owner and send it to forensic testing and expertise, before they update the database with new gun/caliber, after which it can be registered
This can take few weeks or few months.

(My friend imported 260 remington bolt rifle - first time in the country, and it took two months to complete registration with forensic approval, i was joking with him that his rifle rifle was collecting rust and scratches in some humid govt warehouse for 2 months, waiting for inspection just because he did not listen to me to buy some vanilla well known caliber, or god forbid manbun 6,5 CM).

After first caliber/or rifle model is registered and entered in database, the second legal owner of same rifle/caliber will register routinely.

So, I dont know about other EU countries in specifics, but you get the idea of the entire set of continental complications that industry and private legal owners face.

This is the reason why most of new calibers are designed in USA, and many of them came from wildcat community.

 

[HankBuck]

@HankBuck
It's like it's owner ugly but useful. Bought it because it's the closest we can have to a semi auto. Will be grat on pigs loaded with 2 rounds of buckshot followed by 4 solid slugs.
Looking forward to having fun with it.
Bob

OK Bob, guessing the strategy is to hit the Pig, on the Run, with a load or two of Buckshot - slow it down and then “slug it”? I Have killed deer w/12 ga slug and it makes a Big Hole - entering & exiting...also killed many deer w/Buckshot (all in NJ) and found that very unreliable after 25-30 yrds, I used 00 later switched to 000 with results about the same: inside of 25 yrds it knocks them off their feet but over 30 yrds it’s inconsistent — switched to scoped slug guns and was much better out to 100-120 yrds. I’ve never shot a Pig, no opportunities in NJ or VA and my one hunt for them in California never found one big enough to warrant shooting — know they are as tough as they are ugly. I do plan to go after one someday and Florida w/a handgun would be fun. Look forward to you “bacon & ham” hunt report!!

 

[geoff rath]

@Bob Nelson35Whelen
Yes,indeed.
7x64 is very similar to 270 winchester, 7 rem magnum and 280 Remington. And probably few more, but those come first to mind.

But this is also closely related to American gun culture.
In USA wildcatters are common, some make it to the standardization up to SAAMI then to CIP and factory production, some fade away, and some are alive just for seldom use by few enthusiasts

But in America, it is easy, with mostly friendly laws, and large market.

In EU.
New cartridges are reluctantly planned and rarely designed and put in production. Gun production is severely controlled, and gun ownership always under scrutiny - which affects civilian market, and then product marketing. Putting new caliber on Europan market is a planned commercial risk.

In my country, all hunting gun production has stopped in small gunshops (except for one large factory).

As per local law, each new gun must be proved in CIP proof hose. And in the same time, we dont have proof house nor license from CIP. (Nice paradox?) So, this makes small production impossible.

So, this means that when a licensed gunsmith makes new gun (or even just change the barrel) he must go to neighboring Austria to make one CIP proof test. 1000 km trip, cross two countries, for 20 eur CIP proof test.

So no sane gunsmith wants to make new custom gun, nor to change the barrel on old gun. Its pain in the neck.

About wildcats
There is government data base of all calibers and rifle models that comes from actual registry of civilian guns.
The database mainly relays on SAAMI and CIP standards, plus actual gun models imported and registered on civilian market.

So when some new gun is first time imported or registered in the country (new model), or new caliber first time registered in the country, they take it from legal owner and send it to forensic testing and expertise, before they update the database with new gun/caliber, after which it can be registered
This can take few weeks or few months.

(My friend imported 260 remington bolt rifle - first time in the country, and it took two months to complete registration with forensic approval, i was joking with him that his rifle rifle was collecting rust and scratches in some humid govt warehouse for 2 months, waiting for inspection just because he did not listen to me to buy some vanilla well known caliber, or god forbid manbun 6,5 CM).

After first caliber/or rifle model is registered and entered in database, the second legal owner of same rifle/caliber will register routinely.

So, I dont know about other EU countries in specifics, but you get the idea of the entire set of continental complications that industry and private legal owners face.

This is the reason why most of new calibers are designed in USA, and many of them came from wildcat community.

Bureaucracies rule ...

 

[Landis]

A Q LLC 8.6 Blackout bolt action. I have watched some videos that it seems to be the newest flavor. Some of these videos the owner of the company has taken it to Africa with some decent results.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

OK Bob, guessing the strategy is to hit the Pig, on the Run, with a load or two of Buckshot - slow it down and then “slug it”? I Have killed deer w/12 ga slug and it makes a Big Hole - entering & exiting...also killed many deer w/Buckshot (all in NJ) and found that very unreliable after 25-30 yrds, I used 00 later switched to 000 with results about the same: inside of 25 yrds it knocks them off their feet but over 30 yrds it’s inconsistent — switched to scoped slug guns and was much better out to 100-120 yrds. I’ve never shot a Pig, no opportunities in NJ or VA and my one hunt for them in California never found one big enough to warrant shooting — know they are as tough as they are ugly. I do plan to go after one someday and Florida w/a handgun would be fun. Look forward to you “bacon & ham” hunt report!!

@HankBuck
No plans to hit it without killing it. I've shot a lot of pigs with buckshot and can assure you the go down pretty hard and very quickly.
I was out with my mate Greg and my son pig huntingwhen we spotted a mob at 600 yards. We stalked up on them. Greg and my son wanted to shoot from around 150yds. I said no the wind is in our favour. We got to within 10 to 15 yds before they started shooting. I was not shooting that day but teaching hunting and stalking. So a load of buck shot at those ranges is very effective .
Bob

 

[HankBuck]

@HankBuck
No plans to hit it without killing it. I've shot a lot of pigs with buckshot and can assure you the go down pretty hard and very quickly.
I was out with my mate Greg and my son pig huntingwhen we spotted a mob at 600 yards. We stalked up on them. Greg and my son wanted to shoot from around 150yds. I said no the wind is in our favour. We got to within 10 to 15 yds before they started shooting. I was not shooting that day but teaching hunting and stalking. So a load of buck shot at those ranges is very effective .
Bob

Bob, you’re right there — at 15 yrds buckshot is IMPRESSIVE

 

[HankBuck]

Of course, but it is American.

I was referring to European production, getting late to short magnum frenzy, in the lack of global magnum length action production.

Mark a question for you or any others - is there “still” a Short-Magnum-Frenzy? I think it lasted 10 years and has ended....at least for most of those “shorty mag” calibers. In 2005 my friend purchased a very nice Kimber America in .270WSM and paid $1500 for it. It was nice looking wood stock and very accurate, moderate recoil, took an Elk in NM @ 400 yrds. He never used it again and tried to sell it for a couple years for $1400, $1200, $1000 - no takers. Just went off at auction (Rock Island) for $800. We both guessed that if it was a .30-06, .300wm or 7mm it would of commanded a higher price. I think the “shorty ship” sailed - with maybe a few caliber exceptions (.375 Ruger?)...

 

[mark-hunter]

@HankBuck

It could be.

Medium calibers up to 8mm are well covered in many shapes and forms on medium lenght action.

Tropical calibers 375 and upwards, are not (due to price of new magnum lenght actions), so here is a possibility for all this nice DG short(er) magnums to have nice and fruitful future in medium length action bolt rifles for safari market and blue collars, like 375 ruger.

This is not the case for plains game and classic deer rifles, where competition of classic calibers is high, and as you put it, short magnums gradually phase out.

 

[HankBuck]

@HankBuck

It could be.

Medium calibers up to 8mm are well covered in many shapes and forms on medium lenght action.

Tropical calibers 375 and upwards, are not (due to price of new magnum lenght actions), so here is a possibility for all this nice DG short(er) magnums to have nice and fruitful future in medium length action bolt rifles for safari market and blue collars, like 375 ruger.

This is not the case for plains game and classic deer rifles, where competition of classic calibers is high, and as you put it, short magnums gradually phase out.

Mark, thanks for your well thought out and logical opinion - makes sense!