What’s the thoughts on the .223 on all plains game with a match bullet trend?

[375 Ruger Fan]

Well I guess if they were loaded in a .22creedmoor it would change the odds of losing game with a new cartridge that excels past 600m. Think of the possibilities.

If not the 22 CM, then next best is the 22 SWAM (Super Whup Ass Magnum). I believe the 50 BMG is the parent cartridge to the 22 SWAM.

 

[Sketchy1973]

I’ve attached some screenshots of one of the moose shot with a 223. I don’t see how the results are inadequate.

A man can kill an elephant with a 375 H&H, and if he’s going on a multi species hunt, some say it’s the best choice. If he were only hunting elephant, the same people would tell him to take a 470NE. Semantics, maybe.

We'll bring your 223 Africa. Your PH will probably laugh at you and say no.

 

[Josh P]

We'll bring your 223 Africa. Your PH will probably laugh at you and say no.

I have no desire to, nor do I advocate for its use there.

 

[mdwest]

Lets use a blue wildebeest as an example... theyre one of the most commonly hunted medium PG animals.. I'd guess that 90% or more people that have hunted southern africa have hunted a blue wildebeest.. so many, if not most that have hunted southern africa will be able to relate..

we're talking about an animal that weighs up to 600lbs, that is extremely muscular, and have much heavier bone density that something like a whitetail or a human (where most data for a 556 against larger live targets is going to come from)..

African animals are not only thicker, heavier, and as a rule have more bone mass.. vitals are located lower and further forward than most north american game animals.. which means instead of shooting slightly behind the shoulder like you do on something like a whitetail or a feral pig.. you are intentionally shooting "on" the shoulder.. you are VERY likely to be shooting straight through significant bone mass..

Then factor in predation and typical behaviors.. whitetail, pigs, and even humans, generally speaking when hit hard, will run a short distance (50 meters? 100 meters tops?) find a "safe" place, lay down, and assess whats happened.. far more often than not, even if they arent hit well (too far back, etc).. they will stay right where they lay down and not move until they ultimately expire... just dont pressure them after your bad shot and leave them alone for a bit.. and you'll find a dead animal...

that is NOT how most African PG behave..

When you hear someone say they hit a wildebeest or a zebra or a gemsbok, etc.. and they went "50 yards"... thats as far as the animal could make it before they literally died on their feet...

African PG dont just go lay down... they literally run until they cant run anymore... shoot one 2" too far to the rear, hit the liver, and miss the lungs.. and you'll be tracking it for several hundred yards.. if not literal kilometers.. and the probability of finding it is typically very low...

Now.. factor in that certain animals like the blue wildebeest mentioned earlier are notoriously tough animals with an extreme will to live (zebra can be much the same... as some other species can be).. even with a no shit absolute kill shot delivered.. both lungs penetrated.. etc.. they can make it hundreds of yards into thick bush before they go down.. again making it incredibly difficult to find and recover the animal..

Even animals like kudu, which are known to be among the easier species to kill can do the same.. we had a guy on a hunt 3 years ago hit a kudu with a 180gr swift A-Frame from a 30-06.. he hit it with a typical "deer" shot (a couple of inches behind the shoulder rather than on the shoulder).. the kudu made it 500+ yards after being hit.. and after hours of searching wasnt found... it was found the next morning, completely by luck, by someone else that happened to be in the area where the kudu finally fell..

Imagine that same kudu being hit by a 77gr 556 projectile... theres certainly no chance the 556 is going to out perform a 180gr 30 caliber A-Frame.. so in a BEST case scenario you end up with the same results.. but in a worst case scenario you never find the animal.. and it ends up 700-1000 meters away, and spends a couple of hours suffering before it dies.. and the hunter strokes a $2700 check at the end of the week for that shot...

Im not arguing that a 223 cant kill everything that walks the planet.. countless elephants fell to 7x57's back in the day...

but that doesnt mean 7x57 for elephant is the right choice for the hunt... anymore than 223 is the right choice for a gemsbok, waterbuck, etc..

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I agree with you in that I disagree with the concept.

We had these sort of people during my youth, as well. During the 1970s, some American clients used to bring 168Gr military surplus AP (Armor Piercing) ammunition (the ones with the Black Tips) on safari with their .30-06 Springfield rifles for use on plains game (and even a leopard, on one occasion). You could buy them very cheaply in olive colored tins at American army surplus shops. Some of these clients were of the view that using AP military ball on African game tended to inflict less damage on the hides.

Needless to say... these people were a white hunter's worst nightmare (this of course, is absolutely no reflection upon the sporting ethics of all American sportsmen). Their stunts were almost always yielding wounded game animals which were often requiring long followup jobs by the white hunter (and even actually successfully escaping wounded a couple of times).


I often fail to understand how the mindset of such people works. You are dishing out thousands of Dollars for an exotic hunt... and you choose to cut corners with your bullets ? The only thing on the safari which actually comes into physical contact with the game ?

 

[375Fox]

With my entirely lacking experience with PG, is it the size or the construction of the PG anatomy that gives you reason to believe the heavy 223 is inadequate?

Yes. The proper shot placement on African game is on the shoulder not behind the shoulder. A bullet needs to go through heavy bone prior to reaching vitals. You are there for 10 days or so hunting for trophies. It’s not really an option to return the next weekend for a better shot on meat animals.

 

[Nyati]

2016, Northern Cape, I used a .22-250 provided by my Outfitter, with it I shot the following animals, all one shot kills, heart/lung area.

Tsessebe, Red Lechwe, Steenbuck, Common Reedbuck, Warthog.

Now, these are not large animals, it can be done with careful shot placement. For an Eland I would not use anything less that a .338WM.

 

[FlyGuy]

The 223 or 22-250 shooting a 62gr Barnes TTSX at around 3000fps, is a great small and small medium game option.
The 22-250 is also an excellent choice for crocodile.

 

[Josh P]

The behavior of a shot/impacted animal has a lot of weight in choosing the appropriate ammunition, I agree. That’s why “stopping” rifles exist in the first place.

 

[375Fox]

2016, Northern Cape, I used a .22-250 provided by my Outfitter, with it I shot the following animals, all one shot kills, heart/lung area.

Tsessebe, Red Lechwe, Steenbuck, Common Reedbuck, Warthog.

Now, these are not large animals, it can be done with careful shot placement.

Why did he give you a 22-250? I’d be concerned with too much velocity on most bullets with that cartridge on larger game.

 

[uplander01]

Possibly with the right bullet construction and weight the 223 /556 could kill a lot of the smaller stuff, but I think it would end for me at something the size range similar to a blesbok or impala. That said, I personally wouldn't go to Africa to hunt with a 223. Long time ago I saw a video of eskimos hutning polar bear with a 22 lr, they snuck up on it and shot it behind the ear at about 25 yards.......any takers.

 

[mdwest]

2016, Northern Cape, I used a .22-250 provided by my Outfitter, with it I shot the following animals, all one shot kills, heart/lung area.

Tsessebe, Red Lechwe, Steenbuck, Common Reedbuck, Warthog.

Now, these are not large animals, it can be done with careful shot placement. For an Eland I would not use anything less that a .338WM.

I wouldnt be too concerned about using a 22-250 on any of those animals.. they are all fairly small, to include the couple that might be considered "medium" sized PG.. and none of them notoriously tough like some of the animals listed in the OP.. as long as the ammunition was appropriate (tougher bullet.. no ballistic tips, etc..)... I'd do that hunt...

I was surprised when my guide in ireland handed me a 223 loaded with 70gr bullets to use on a sika deer hunt a few years back.. but knowing the size of the animal, understanding its anatomy, knowing where we were going to be hunting was for the most part wide open fields, etc..etc.. it really wasnt a concern... had that same guide handed me a 223 for a red stag hunt, we would have likely had a pretty serious conversation before heading to the field..

 

[Dirtdart]

I was at a country show near Outjo, Namibia in 2019. There were some professional cull hunters there.
These people go to farms in Namibia and cull excess game. Springbok, impala and oryx. Firearms of choice,223,22/250 or 243.
Headshots only. Having seen one in action I was impressed. The guy I was accompanying used a 22/250 with home loaded rounds, Sierra 55 grain soft points.

There are more springbok, impala, and gemsbok taken in Namibia with any one of the calibers you mentioned than all other calibers combined that would be considered appropriate for a body shot. Those guys wouldn't risk ruining one ounce of meat and they are good at keeping the meat locker stocked.

 

[mdwest]

Possibly with the right bullet construction and weight the 223 /556 could kill a lot of the smaller stuff, but I think it would end for me at something the size range similar to a blesbok or impala. That said, I personally wouldn't go to Africa to hunt with a 223. Long time ago I saw a video of eskimos hutning polar bear with a 22 lr, they snuck up on it and shot it behind the ear at about 25 yards.......any takers.

223 for impala I think is no problem at all...

Ive been scarred for life by the two blesbok hunts Ive been on lol.. Im convinced those nasty bastards require a 416 or larger to get a clean, effective kill lol...

One the first one we hunted, my wife hit the blesbok with a 168gr TTSX from her 308... a typical "deer" shot.. slightly too far back.. but it should have killed the animal...

we tracked that thing for a couple of hours before finally catching up and bumping him.. I then hit him with my 375 H&H... in the boiler room.. he got up and ran again... it took us another couple of hundred yards to catch up with him.. and I had to put another 375 in him (he was done.. laying down, unable to move anymore.. but still hanging in there.. so I hit him again...)...

On the second blesbok hunt (mine).. I hit the animal with a 168gr TTSX.. he ran 300 yards.. we hit him with a second 168gr TTSX... and then he got up and ran another hundred yards or so and I had to hit him with a third TTSX...

those little googly eyed beasts are my nemesis lol..

 

[mdwest]

There are more springbok, impala, and gemsbok taken in Namibia with any one of the calibers you mentioned than all other calibers combined that would be considered appropriate for a body shot. Those guys wouldn't risk ruining one ounce of meat and they are good at keeping the meat locker stocked.

If I were culling and/or meat hunting.. I dont think a 223 is inappropriate... hit any small to medium PG animal in the brain with a 70gr bonded 223 and its going down where it stands.. I might even consider an eland as long as I limited myself to a headshot..

but for a trophy hunt.. nope... not me...

 

[IvW]

I will rather not comment.......

 

[mdwest]

What are you doing on Rockslide? That forum is a shithole. Ugh!

I occasionally go over there and read (Im not a member, dont have an account or a username over there, etc)...

I find there are some guys that are reasonably knowledgeable about gear and hunting specific to the Western US.. like most places there are certainly some forum level biases (you wont find many people here that dont prefer walnut and blued steel to synthetic stocks and stainless for example)... but if you can filter through that and just listen to what guys are saying about how a particular boot performed in the field, or how to best navigate in the northern rockies where the road systems suck, etc.. its not horrible..

I definitely dont even bother with the caliber and the rifle manufacturer debates that go on over there.. just clicking one of those threads is tiresome lol..

 

[Nyati]

Why did he give you a 22-250? I’d be concerned with too much velocity on most bullets with that cartridge on larger game.

I wanted a supressed rifle, and that´s what he had back then.

It´s the family heirloom, on it´s third barrel, his father had culled thousands of animals with it, and yes, it did the job.

 

[Josh P]

I occasionally go over there and read (Im not a member, dont have an account or a username over there, etc)...

I find there are some guys that are reasonably knowledgeable about gear and hunting specific to the Western US.. like most places there are certainly some forum level biases (you wont find many people here that dont prefer walnut and blued steel to synthetic stocks and stainless for example)... but if you can filter through that and just listen to what guys are saying about how a particular boot performed in the field, or how to best navigate in the northern rockies where the road systems suck, etc.. its not horrible..

I definitely dont even bother with the caliber and the rifle manufacturer debates that go on over there.. just clicking one of those threads is tiresome lol..

If I want to learn from people with more experience about this or that tent, pack, etc. it’s a fantastic resource. Much the same about this forum when it comes to African topics. What is to be gleaned from either has more to do with the readers approach and attitude, but there’s plenty of tiresome on every gun/hunting related forum under the sun.

 

[YancyW]

5.56 77gr Sierra OTM is a killing machine, just not on larger African Plains Game....