Thoughts on the use of a Pederzoli Kodiak .50 sxs muzzle loader : 370gn Maxi-balls for plains game hunting?

[Gert Odendaal]

Members, I developed a great affection for shooting my .50 Pederzoli Kodiak express sxs . Any opinions in regards to the best bullet /weight to use when doing plains game hunting? I believe walk/stalk hunting out to 80 meters will be the norm.
Species will include warthog, impala, kudu, blue wildebeest .

 

[Dirtdart]

I have used the same rifle in .54 caliber to take dikdik, warthog, kudu, and eland.

The best regulating load in that particular rifle was 100 grains of FFg with a 460 grain Hornady Great Plains flat nose. Both barrels would print 4 inches apart at 100 yards which is my self imposed limit with a muzzleloader. This was done when there were several companies producing full bore lead conical bullets. I tried every combination that I could find and even though I would have preferred a heavier powder charge this was by far the most accurate.

With a full bore conical a soft alloy or pure lead is the only material that a bullet can be made of and still be able to push it from the muzzle. Weight retention and expansion will be very good usually at the sacrifice of penetration. The combination of 100 grains of FFg and that 460 grain bullet was found in the middle of the heart of an eland shot at a range of 50 yards. We had a dead eland but not enough penetration IMHO. I have not taken a wildebeest with a muzzleloader but my instinct would be to go for a double lung and avoid the shoulder.

I have used a 300 gr. hard cast .50 caliber bullet in a .54 caliber sabot on top of a 130 grains of FFg and can tell you that combo out penetrates by a significant margin the heavier soft lead conical bullets. (Springbok, Gemsbok, and Mountain Zebra)

If using a traditional conical or maxi-ball in a double rifle the heaviest bullet and powder charge that gives satisfactory regulation is the way to go. The max charge rating of the manufacturer and rate of twist are the limiting factors.

If I can find them I will post pics of some of the conicals I have recovered from animals over the years.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

I have used the same rifle in .54 caliber to take dikdik, warthog, kudu, and eland.

The best regulating load in that particular rifle was 100 grains of FFg with a 460 grain Hornady Great Plains flat nose. Both barrels would print 4 inches apart at 100 yards which is my self imposed limit with a muzzleloader. This was done when there were several companies producing full bore lead conical bullets. I tried every combination that I could find and even though I would have preferred a heavier powder charge this was by far the most accurate.

With a full bore conical a soft alloy or pure lead is the only material that a bullet can be made of and still be able to push it from the muzzle. Weight retention and expansion will be very good usually at the sacrifice of penetration. The combination of 100 grains of FFg and that 460 grain bullet was found in the middle of the heart of an eland shot at a range of 50 yards. We had a dead eland but not enough penetration IMHO. I have not taken a wildebeest with a muzzleloader but my instinct would be to go for a double lung and avoid the shoulder.

I have used a 300 gr. hard cast .50 caliber bullet in a .54 caliber sabot on top of a 130 grains of FFg and can tell you that combo out penetrates by a significant margin the heavier soft lead conical bullets.

If using a traditional conical or maxi-ball in a double rifle the heaviest bullet and powder charge that gives satisfactory regulation is the way to go. The max charge rating of the manufacturer and rate of twist are the limiting factors.

If I can find them I will post pics of some of the conicals I have recovered from animals over the years.

Dirtdart, thank you for the information, it is much appreciated. I did read about the these heavy cast bullets 460gn and even up to 600gn cast bullets over 90gn of black powder that gives good accuracy in the .50 SXS Kodiak express double ...Shops here in South Africa sells the maxi ball 320gn cast bullets and the casting mold as well..I think I need to search for a heavier cast bullet in the .50 caliber .Lee Double Cavity Combo Mold produces one 50 Cal. diameter 320 grain R.E.A.L bullet and one .490 diameter round Ball I think this to be too light

 

[JimP]

I would first start with talking to your outfitter and see just what black powder or black powder substitute that they can source and then try to replicate your best loads with the type of powder that they can find.

Other than that it should work great. I have taken a number of North American animals with both my .50 caliber and 54 caliber muzzle loaders. My favorite is the .54 and 430 grain maxi balls that I cast myself. They blow chunks out of mule deer and leave a pretty good hole in elk. In my .50 caliber I will shoot 300 grain Thor copper bullets and have had a number of complete pass through s on elk.

Here is one of the recovered bullet from a 6x6 bull elk that I shot at 120 yards along with what the bullet looked like.

This one was recovered on the far side of the hide. It took out a rib on both sides or it quite possible would of exited.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

I am fortunate to visit game farms here in South Africa and hunt with a farm hand , we do not need outfitters or PH to hunt since we are citizens of SA. I am buying ZAR home made black powder from my friend Johan Greyling , he makes a great quality black powder , so I have access to unlimited source of high quality black powder.
I will now be sourcing a heavy cast bullet in .50 cal to shoot and work up a load that is accurate at 120 yards.

 

[Dirtdart]

Dirtdart, thank you for the information, it is much appreciated. I did read about the these heavy cast bullets 460gn and even up to 600gn cast bullets over 90gn of black powder that gives good accuracy in the .50 SXS Kodiak express double ...Shops here in South Africa sells the maxi ball 320gn cast bullets and the casting mold as well..I think I need to search for a heavier cast bullet in the .50 caliber .Lee Double Cavity Combo Mold produces one 50 Cal. diameter 320 grain R.E.A.L bullet and one .490 diameter round Ball I think this to be too light

I have worked with numerous side locks with a 1 in 48 inch twist rate which is what my Kodiak was. That twist is a compromise at best. It can be fairly accurate with a roundball at low charges/velocity which is a severe handicap for taking game. I found that the longer conicals needed heavy charges to shoot their best.

With a twist of 1 in 66 or slower you can push a hard cast patched ball as fast as the barrel will stand and that does change the equation a bit.

 

[C.W. Richter]

I LOVE my Rem XML 26" 700 bolt action for primed case ignition and 150-200 gr powder. Found it quite by accident N.O.S. at the Kittery, ME Trading Post while on vaca. Super accurate and powerful (nearly 375 HH powerful. Heavy recoil but manageable. They say it's a 500 yd gun, but I'm comfortable out to 400 as the scope is calibrated to same.) 'Would love to hunt Africa with it. 'Considered putting the components together inside brass cases. Might not be violating any laws, as they're assembled and the components are for the gun. Take apart/re-assemble or relinquish remainder in camp (pay it forward for ML hunters!) Loved watching Roger Raglin on buff using a SxS percussion gun custom made for him by Knight I think. Are Pyrodex powder discs or eq. avail. in S. Africa??? Could a dealer order and you pay for 'em??

 

[Gert Odendaal]

I managed to get hold of a mould to cast .50 caliber , 600 gn conical bullet to use in the .50 Pederzoli Kodiak Express in a 1:24 twist..will see how this will turn out..

 

[putter97127]

I managed to get hold of a mould to cast .50 caliber , 600 gn conical bullet to use in the .50 Pederzoli Kodiak Express in a 1:24 twist..will see how this will turn out..

That's a huge bullet. Please post a picture of one when you mold some up.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

That's a huge bullet. Please post a picture of one when you mold some up.

Putter, I had a discussion with a fiend of mine Johan van Wyk, he really knows about shooting the .50 cal muzzle loader rifles. He was shooting for the National Black powder muzzle loading team.
He explain to me the 610 gn conical bullet will be too heavy to shoot even with a load of 120gn FFG ZAR black powder .
He suggest I use the .395 gn Great Plains Game cast bullet.
The 420 gn Layman cast bullet in the .50 cal or the 375gn Layman cast bullet.
610 gn bullet .50 cal bullet Right hand side 420gn Fever Tree cast bullet (South African design )
I am taking the Pederzoli Kosiak Express down to Cape own in February 2025 to shoot and work out a load with the assistance of Johan..will give feedback as always.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Great, I managed to find a local supplier with every muzzleloader type of cast bullet in any weight possible..

The Quarter Master | Home

Good gear for good guys. Gear to Survive and Thrive in South Africa. Prepping, active and adventure gear for South Africans.

www.thequartermaster.co.za

 

[putter97127]

Putter, I had a discussion with a fiend of mine Johan van Wyk, he really knows about shooting the .50 cal muzzle loader rifles. He was shooting for the National Black powder muzzle loading team.
He explain to me the 610 gn conical bullet will be too heavy to shoot even with a load of 120gn FFG ZAR black powder .
He suggest I use the .395 gn Great Plains Game cast bullet.
The 420 gn Layman cast bullet in the .50 cal or the 375gn Layman cast bullet.
610 gn bullet .50 cal bullet Right hand side 420gn Fever Tree cast bullet (South African design )
I am taking the Pederzoli Kosiak Express down to Cape own in February 2025 to shoot and work out a load with the assistance of Johan..will give feedback as always.

View attachment 617381

The Fever Tree bullet looks good. I bet you would need a pretty hefty charge to make the 610 grainer effective. I could never get the Great Plains to shoot well. But Maxi-Balls work well in both my 54 cal side lock and my daughter's 50 cal in-line.
The in-line has a 1-24 twist. It shoots best with a felt wad between the powder and the bullet... Not sure why the wad makes a difference, but it's a pretty big difference between wad and no wad with the same charge. I guess it's the voodoo that makes muzzleloaders so much fun!

 

[Ridge Runner]

As an avid sidelock only black powder enthusiasts. I like my caplocks and love my flintlocks.

In the 50 cal. for hunting I prefer 300 and 325 grain Buffalo bullets and 350 Buffalo bullets work just as well out of one of my Hawkens style rifles. My other Hawkens style rifle bore is too tight for Buffalo bullets. Cast maxi ball/bullets using a Lyman mold and .490 round balls with .010 patching are very accurate out of this rifle. For hunting I use a volume weight charge of 70 grains FFFg reguardless of which 50 cal rifle I hunt with as they all seem to favor that load.

JMO...the PG animals you are planning to hunt, and then some. The 300 grain, 325 grain, or 350 grain Bullalo / maxi ball bullet should work well out to 100 yards.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

I managed to purchase the

.50 Caliber Flat Base Bullet - 425gr with a .50 wad​

Bushveldt Gamestalker Bullets .50 caliber 395gr (hollow base)

​

 

[Dirtdart]

One of the two .54 caliber 460 Hornady Great Plains bullets was recovered from the middle of an eland heart. Literally from the center of the heart.
If memory serves it is the top one with a 456 grain weight. 50 yards with a charge of 100 grains FFg with no leg bone contact. I can't remember which animal the second one came from but great expansion and weight retention.

The second photo is a design by a company that went out of business before I had a chance to field test their bullets but I thought the concept showed real promise. A full bore conical soft enough to load from the muzzle but the idea was to inhibit expansion to increase penetration.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Absolute incredible penetration on a elephant

 

[Gert Odendaal]

As an avid sidelock only black powder enthusiasts. I like my caplocks and love my flintlocks.

In the 50 cal. for hunting I prefer 300 and 325 grain Buffalo bullets and 350 Buffalo bullets work just as well out of one of my Hawkens style rifles. My other Hawkens style rifle bore is too tight for Buffalo bullets. Cast maxi ball/bullets using a Lyman mold and .490 round balls with .010 patching are very accurate out of this rifle. For hunting I use a volume weight charge of 70 grains FFFg reguardless of which 50 cal rifle I hunt with as they all seem to favor that load.

JMO...the PG animals you are planning to hunt, and then some. The 300 grain, 325 grain, or 350 grain Bullalo / maxi ball bullet should work well out to 100 yards.

I really am looking forward to get my .50 cal Pederzoli shooting accurate out to 100 yards.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Putter, I had a discussion with a fiend of mine Johan van Wyk, he really knows about shooting the .50 cal muzzle loader rifles. He was shooting for the National Black powder muzzle loading team.
He explain to me the 610 gn conical bullet will be too heavy to shoot even with a load of 120gn FFG ZAR black powder .
He suggest I use the .395 gn Great Plains Game cast bullet.
The 420 gn Layman cast bullet in the .50 cal or the 375gn Layman cast bullet.
610 gn bullet .50 cal bullet Right hand side 420gn Fever Tree cast bullet (South African design )
I am taking the Pederzoli Kosiak Express down to Cape own in February 2025 to shoot and work out a load with the assistance of Johan..will give feedback as always.

View attachment 617381

The velocity of most standard or traditional muzzleloaders does not support using the heaviest of bullets on African game. The energy is just not there. That said the Remington XML and many other custom muzzleloaders using bullets 300 plus or minus grains at 2400 or more FPS will get the job done at reasonable range. Even custom muzzleloader makers that have been around for 250 years by me swear by 45 caliber traditional muzzleloaders because the velocity energy and bullet drop over distance is far improved from the 50 or 54s. And the fact is most 50s shoot 45 caliber bullets. Barnes made the bullets for the Remington XML and of course they have proven themselves in Africa.

 

[Ridge Runner]

The velocity of most standard or traditional muzzleloaders does not support using the heaviest of bullets on African game. The energy is just not there. That said the Remington XML and many other custom muzzleloaders using bullets 300 plus or minus grains at 2400 or more FPS will get the job done at reasonable range. Even custom muzzleloader makers that have been around for 250 years by me swear by 45 caliber traditional muzzleloaders because the velocity energy and bullet drop over distance is far improved from the 50 or 54s. And the fact is most 50s shoot 45 caliber bullets. Barnes made the bullets for the Remington XML and of course they have proven themselves in Africa.

The 45 cal and 50 cal are the most popular all around do all calibers. The 40 cal and 54 cal are probably the second most popular calibers. The 40 cal for deer and small game and the 54 cal for deer, boar, bears, elk, and moose. The 36 cal and the 58 calclose third most popular. The 36 cal for small game and the 58 cal by those that want something bigger than a 45, 50, 54 cal for NA big game and a separate small game rifle in 30 to 40 cal.

And the fact is most 50s shoot 45 caliber bullets.

Please clarify....as it depends on how tight the bore is cut, depends on how thick the patch to ball diameter is needed.

2 Ball sizes for the .50 cal: .490 and .495. For proper fit a .010 to .015 patch for the .490 dia ball and For the .495 ball a .010 patch does the job. As the rifling wears down though years of shooting a thicker patch is used.

Buffalo and cast bullets don't require patching as they are bore size.

Those that shoot sabots, usually modern inline shooters, are using a .44 cal (.429 or .430 dia.) or .45 cal. (.451 dia.) bullet depending on the thickness of the plastic sabot.

.45 cal muzzleloaders use .440 or .445 diameter ball using the same standard thicknesses of patching, .010 or .015.

The velocity of most standard or traditional muzzleloaders does not support using the heaviest of bullets on African game. The energy is just not there.

The velocity and energy of the maxi ball and the better Buffalo bullet, has been killing deer, black bear, grizzly bear, elk, moose, and pretty much every other big game North American big game for over 200 years. Making both .45 cal and the .50 cal rifles perfectly suitable for PG and DG, with exception of elephant, in Africa.

....300 plus or minus grains at 2400 or more FPS will get the job done at reasonable range.

Now I'm going to have to chronograph my hunting loads. Something I have never done. I doubt if my muzzle velocities out of my Hawkens rifles using a 70 grain volume weight charge of FFFg exceeds 1700 to 1800 fps range.

My comfort limit is 100 yards using iron sights.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Great, we have a discussion now, now it will be interesting to get those chronograph muzzle velocities..please share with us..I will be able to chronograph these bullets with 110gn FFG behind these .50 cal cast bullets I bought as well.