The saga of the Rhodesian Shotgun

Now perhaps the question should be how were civilian guns used? We have already touched upon the LDP (RhUZI) and the Striker (Streetsweeper). I recall modifications (upgrades) to civilian vehicles with rifles and SMGs mounted to the roof so that they could be remotely fired in the event of an ambush. That mod may not have been particularly effective BUT it showed a response to the terror threat.

No doubt there were sporting guns used by civilians to protect themselves. The Browning Auto 5 may well have been among them.
 
Benelli is closest similar to A5 today in its usage intended , and H&K imported them first over to the states so they became well known there .

Since lot of parts is around for them and many styles .
The NEW A5 is similar to the Benelli as both are inertia driven. The ORIGINAL Auto 5 has NOTHING in common with the Benelli.

The problem with the NEW A5s as a "clone" or modern combat gun is there VENT ribs. There seems to be no version of the NEW A5 without a vent rib. A ventilated rib has NO place on a combat gun
 
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The old Remington made clones of the Browning A5 were also pretty first class.
 
OK OK, you guys are slowly getting to me. I won’t attempt the extended mag version because of all the issues with replacing the original sporting tube and making a long handguard. The extended mag tubes that screw on in front on the short handguard look like a monkey and a football….

I think if I do decide to make one; I’ll do it as an older sporter pressed into service, perhaps in a BSAP/PATU role. Doing that can be done just by painting the stock with BSAP. It also eliminates the need for RA number engraving

So it’s won’t be a clone but more of a historical inspired adventure
 
Regarding civilian guns. There’s no doubt civilians used their personal sporting guns to defend themselves. Eventually they were issued military guns (FALs and UZIs) to use against terrorist attacks.

Given the continuous military need for weapons; it’s unlikely that FALs would have been issued to every family member. Just as in the picture of the family posted earlier, the father has a FAL while the wife has the LDP. I suspect prior to being issued the FAL and buying the LDP a sporting gun (hunting rifle or shotgun) would have been used

The US seems to have an affinity for sawed off shotguns that hasn’t been adopted by the UK influenced world. Back as far as WW2 the US was using “trench guns” with 18 and 20 inch barrels. The Brits predominant use of the long barrel on the Auto 5 in Malaysia can be seen in the few available pics and drawings. Even the “Rhodesia” model with the extended mag had a 24 inch barrel.
 
For you guys who just have to have a Rhodesian Shotgun.... This is a clone, or at least its clone-ish. There a a few things "wrong" but the seller isnt claiming it to be a REAL Rhodesian Shotgun. The buttpad isnt correct. It doesnt have the crossbolt in the stock and its not marked with RA Numbers BUT it does appear right to those who havent read this thread....

Its currently (6/13/2024) on Gunbroker for $1500. That seems rather salty for a build. The Forearm and mag extension does require a lot of work, soooooo maybe? Id value it somewhere closer to $1000 but who am I?

Oh yeah its NOT mine

Gunbroker #1053761981
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This conflict seems very reminiscent to what I have read about the Malaya emergency. I suppose terrorism is the same the world over.
Can you recommend any good books on the bush war?
Fire Force by Chris Cocks is excellent from a drafted Troopie's POV. Chris has also been interviewed for Pod Casts. Also "No Mean Soldier" by Peter Macalese (sp). Peter served in the Rhodesian SAS and the SADF. Fascinating books.
 
Again, for the shotguns actually available to Rhodesia, The Auto 5 was pretty much the ONLY option. More that that it was the ONLY shotgun they adopted for military service. The Striker and some other guns were Im sure, used by civilians, I also recall some break open model with maybe 5 or 6 barrels that was reminiscent of the 19th century Nock Volley gun, as well as Im sure others BUT the Belgian FN made Browning Auto 5 was THE shotgun that Rhodesia adopted.

As a combat shotgun (despite all we've heard here) it was and still is a good gun. At the time of the Bush War, it was the FASTEST shooting/cycling gun available. Yes TODAY there are newer faster better guns BUT those were NOT available then so they only cloud the discussion.

Ive used the term End User Certificate a couple times in this thread. For those NOT familiar, Wikipedia provides the following

An end-user certificate, or EUC, is a document used in international transfers, including sales and arms provided as aid, of weapons and ammunition to certify that the buyer is the final recipient of the materials and does not plan on transferring the materials to another. EUCs are required by many governments to restrict the movement of military materials to undesired destinations, such as non-state actors under an international or domestic embargo, governments with bad human rights records or states that are considered to be threats by the original supplier of the arms.

Further
There are several (potential) problems with EUCs as a means to prevent undesirable arms exports: EUCs can be forged or falsified. They can also be obtained from corrupt officials... Another (potential) problem is that an EUC does not guarantee that the arms recipient will actually live up to its promise not to transfer the weapons received....

At the time of the Rhodesian Bush war, both South Afrika and Portugal (Mozambique) were also facing similar enemies sponsored by the USSR and China, with Cuban troops on the ground as trainers. It was in the interest of both South Afrika and Portugal to aid (if quietly behind the scenes) Rhodesia. Portugal provided HK G3 rifles from their own inventory and South Afrika provided the FALs. Rhodesia had been a British Colony. Their military was formed in British traditions with local influences particular to southern Africa terrain and conditions. The shotguns all likely came by way of South Afrika but I wouldnt be surprised if a few slipped through Portuguese hands.

Sadly Rhodesia was abandoned by the world. Race was used as the excuse because race was the cancer of the 1970s. It didnt seem to matter that much (most, all) of the White population were "African" by birth and family lineage for generations of 200+ years. Yes the White minority held the majority of governmental power; but the Rhodesian military (and police) was both heavily Black and White and all RHODESIAN. The Rhodesian military was perhaps 80% Black. They werent forced to serve, there was no draft. Conversely the guerillas were attacking from Mozambique and Zambia with the support of both major Communist world powers... and the west looked away. It wasnt only nations that abandoned Rhodesia. The United Methodist Church launched a campaign against Rhodesia. Their campaign was based on ignorance with little to no actual onsite knowledge. Facts didnt seem to matter to an organization that claims to have God on their side. (BTW they were the same folks who pushed for gun control re- emphasis on handgun control in the US). It wasnt ONLY the Methodist, other denominations including Roman Catholics also launched campaigns of ignorance against Rhodesia and all White Africans. It didnt seen to matter that the Dutch first settled at Capetown in 1650. Imagine that, 300 years of families living and building and dying there; but somehow they werent African enough.

The two guerilla leaders Robert Mugabe and Joshua Nkomo each supposedly fighting for a democratic Rhodesia, were also at odds with each other. In the end when Mugabe ultimately "won", he had Nkomo killed to eliminate any threat. Rhodesia which had been the "Bread Basket" of Africa and provided more wheat to the continent than any other country, slumped into an economic crash.

Can anyone tell me which side WON the Bush war? Its just my opinion, but 40+ years later it looks like nobody won. Rhodesia now Zimbabwe is a failed state. They thwart international business investments with Stalinist taxing and mandatory requirements that citizens must own the majority share of any business. As their economy failed they printed over paper money with larger denominations until even that failed. Then they decided to use US currency as the foundation for their economy. That was interesting idea until the old bills shredded from age. When you visit Zimbabwe you will be asked to use your paper US dollars to add new bills. Dont be surprised if someone wants to sell you old Rhodesian bills as "a collectors item". They may be collectable, but they are as worthless as Confederate money.

Apologies for the rant. Its just that I remember Rhodesia. It wasnt perfect. It needed to change and was on a path to change, Maybe not fast enough, what change ever comes fast enough; but changes come slow when a nation is at war. Now back to your regularly scheduled topic
Edelweiss, you're missing the point. To the "progressives" (ie Socialists and Communists) that IS victory! They "won" by destroying a multiracial stable society that educated its people, had rule of law, and exported food to its neighbors. Of course it had to be brought down. And once Marxist one-party rule was brought about not a word from the UN, from the do gooders in the West, or from the media. They have done the same with South Africa--which is on the path to destitution and destruction. And predictably, their target is now the United States of America.
 
@EDELWEISS, I appreciate this thread, and your perspective of the history of the Rhodesian wars, the West's insistence, at a governmental level to impose their viewpoint and policies, in a country they no longer have control of or understand facts on the ground.

The reality of Whites and Blacks living in this world, has always been, that some idiots will divide us along lines of Color, instead of valuing each person according to principles. It continues to this day, everywhere. It's failed thinking.

I have worked with South Africans, Black and White, that were involved in the Rhodesian bush wars. There is a perspective that can be gained by their stories. Your reports and pictures point out the harsh reality that some people are civil, and embrace a free life, and some people are just brutal savages that must be dealt with accordingly.

I can show you the same types, today, where I live in South Louisiana, where some Blacks espouse only violence and mayhem, and some Whites espouse attacking Blacks. It's sickening.
Growing up in rural Louisiana, Blacks and Whites have lived and worked together for generations. We get along, and respect and support each other's cultures and practices.

It's different in the bigger cities. And the big city politicians make it a bigger deal.

Is there a book, or books that I can read, that tells the complete story of Rhodesia, the bush wars, and the corruption of Rhodesia into Zimbabwe? Please advise.

Regarding the FN Browning A5 shotguns in Rhodesia, interesting story of how a finely engineered and built shotgun served a useful purpose in bush warfare.

If I had to walk point in the Rhodesian bush, an A5 with extended mag tube, loaded with buckshot would be comforting. Plus, a guy behind me with a G3 or FN-FAL.

Thank You for this posting.
Its not an easy book to find but it's fair and comprehensive. Called "Rhodesians Never Die". Written by two academics.
 
And by the way, my info is dated but I recall the book shop at the airport in Joburg having a lot of books from Galago Publishing on hand about the bush war in Rhodesia etc. One great one is called "See you in November". About a Rhodesian SAS member sent to do wet jobs in Africa. Even if exaggerated (and I am not sure it was), it is a fascinating read. Yet another book I can recommend. But if/when you all pass through Joburg airport take a look at the book store!
 
The US seems to have an affinity for sawed off shotguns that hasn’t been adopted by the UK influenced world. Back as far as WW2 the US was using “trench guns” with 18 and 20 inch barrels.
The concept of a combat shotgun is uniquely American. In the American Civil War shotguns were a favorite of confederate cavalrymen. In the Great War America shotguns were so effective that the Germans tried to get them banned.
Soon after the rest of the world realized how useful they were and started using them.
 
For those of you interested in the bush war.
This was imo a good book.

 

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Grz63 wrote on Werty's profile.
(cont'd)
Rockies museum,
CM Russel museum and lewis and Clark interpretative center
Horseback riding in Summer star ranch
Charlo bison range and Garnet ghost town
Flathead lake, road to the sun and hiking in Glacier NP
and back to SLC (via Ogden and Logan)
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Good Morning,
I plan to visit MT next Sept.
May I ask you to give me your comments; do I forget something ? are my choices worthy ? Thank you in advance
Philippe (France)

Start in Billings, Then visit little big horn battlefield,
MT grizzly encounter,
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Looking to buy a 375 H&H or .416 Rem Mag if anyone has anything they want to let go of
 
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