The Quality of American Firearms...

[wesheltonj]

No, I am suggesting that an European made barrel, will stand up to over powdered charge, while the USA makers don't. I would agree that 99.999% of the time no problems. I just don't want to be on the receiving end of defective factory load ammo.

 

[Sand Rat]

The Ruger Hawkeye African I bought this year in 6.5x55 is the best handling and shooting rifle I own. Better than both of my CZ's , should have bought the .275 last year before the price skyrocketed. I'm willing to bet it rates right up there with the Swede.

 

[sierraone]

The Ruger Hawkeye African I bought this year in 6.5x55 is the best handling and shooting rifle I own. Better than both of my CZ's , should have bought the .275 last year before the price skyrocketed. I'm willing to bet it rates right up there with the Swede.

The next to last .275 Safari sold Monday for $1750 on Gun Broker. I had it listed on AH for 4 months. The most I was offered was $1100. There will be another on Gun Broker starting bid at $1600 in a day or two. We bought one on GB yesterday for $1000. My friend bought it last night for $1000. I am sure when it hits GB again it will start at $1600. I am not buying these, my dealer friend is and making good. I have one I bought last summer from him when they first came out for $160 and an older M70 .458 I had owned for four years which I couldn't stand. My .275 now has a low end Nikon 3x9 on it and has fired around 120 - 150 rounds. Also has better wood than the ones I have seen recently. So far it hasn't been for sale. If they ever start going for $2000 plus, mine may be on GB also!

 

[markferrigno]

Unfortunately, the quality of American firearms is very poor. That's why customers maker's are so backlogged.

Nonsense

 

[markferrigno]

X Bolts are built by Miruku

Wrong manufacturer, right country. Either way they are made in Japan if that makes people feel any better/worse. Regardless, they are a hell of a good value and should be a top consideration for anyone looking for a mid-priced hunting rifle.....

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

No, I am suggesting that an European made barrel, will stand up to over powdered charge, while the USA makers don't. I would agree that 99.999% of the time no problems. I just don't want to be on the receiving end of defective factory load ammo.

Well the video was a plug test and not really designed to see what would happen on an over charge. The problem that I have with the video is that if the barrels are truly plugged on all of the rifles such that the bullet stops at the plug, then ALL of the rifles MUST relieve that pressure somehow. With the rifles whose barrels blew open, that explains the relief of that pressure.

But what about the rifles that didn't? Where did that pressure go? You don't see any gas leaking out somewhere in the video.

If this were an overcharge situation, the rifles are more likely to blow at the chamber. Even with factory loading, if you have a few extra grains you shouldn't, it's more likely you'll lock up the bolt as the case expands so tight in the chamber that it won't open. For such a large over pressure event due to factory ammo, they would have likely setup with a much higher burn rate of powder than what they intended. It could happen, but not sure I'd count on the European rifle to contain that condition over an American rifle.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Just catching up on this thread. For American manufacturers, the Savages I've shot and seen at the range are doing damn good with factory ammo and even better with reloads. Same goes for some of the Rugers. Remingtons are still spotty. One shoots lights out and another is a dog. Foreign like Sako and Tika are rock solid accurate. A friend had a Browning, it was beautiful but five shots and the bore looked like it was gold plated. It went down the highway.
From my perspective, unless you are trying to get that last 1/8 to 1/4 inch smaller group, the factory rifles are a good choice. Are they going to be better than a custom beyond 600 yards? Clean up with a couple patches? Probably not, but then again a custom will cost five to ten times a low price factory rifle.

 

[JPbowhunter]

I can give an unbiased opinion being neither American nor European. European hands down for my centrefire.

My exception is my tc muzzleloader which to it's credit is a lovely gun to shoot.

In Australia and NZ, sako and tikka are by far the most common brand. Watched a roo culled at 408m on my last hunt with a sako black bear 9.3x62 and as always bang flop.

 

[Dr Ray]

The European rifles like Sako and tikka are very,very good. No mistake in that.
I like American rifles too but I have some in the bigger calibers.
I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it depends on your budget too.
I’ve have a tikka in 222 Remington that I have to my son. However, my preference is for Sako but in the bigger calibers such as in the 416s I think (for example) Winchester is better because of the ejection problems with Sako on low mounted scopes.
Ps I just “love” my Sako rifles!

 

[JakeH]

I own Savages and a Steyr. I can honestly say that, for me, my Savages outshoot my Steyr out of the box. Yes, even though my Steyr is a “better made” rifle.

 

[jduckhunter]

Sorry couldn't help it, believe what you want, buy and shoot whatever you want.

 

[gizmo]

Sorry couldn't help it, believe what you want, buy and shoot whatever you want.

Amen. This is an argument that’s been going on since Europeans and Americans have been making rifles. I own both, I love both, and I can’t honestly say I prefer one over another in every circumstance.

 

[Dwight Beagle]

Wrong manufacturer, right country. Either way they are made in Japan if that makes people feel any better/worse. Regardless, they are a hell of a good value and should be a top consideration for anyone looking for a mid-priced hunting rifle.....

X-Bolts are made in Japan by Miroku.

http://www.browning.com/support/frequently-asked-questions/firearms-manufactured.html

 

[Hank2211]

The Browning Citori shotgun - made in Japan - is an excellent gun, well made, and good value for the quality. I own two.

Where something is made can be important - a Rigby should be made in England for example - but generally it’s not as important as the price/quality equation.

 

[Spooksar]

European rifles are not without fault, I was RO at our range one day when a guy had a Sako that wouldn’t shoot, he had it back to the store tried different scopes etc.. He grabbed the rifle buy the barrel and you could see the barrel turn. Turns out the barrel was never installed properly. Never seen that with a American made rifle. Does that make Samos garbage , no but just show every manufacturer has their moments.

 

[Alistair]

I reckon it's just a regional thing. Here in the UK, you don't actually see that many 'American' firearms. I'd suggest that the default 'budget' stalking/ sporting rifle is a Tikka T3x. If you want to spend more then there's Sako, Steyr, Sauer, Mauser. If you want to spend less then there is Bergara, Howa, CZ or at the very bottom end a second hand BRUNO or Parker Hale. Anything else is an oddity. You see a few Brownings, but they're not a default. I don't know anyone with a Remington outside of heavily customised 'Tactical' rigs and the only common Rugers are the 10/22.

The only arena where American brands are the undisputed leaders is in underlever rifles. Here, the Marlin is the standard, followed by Henry and Winchester. You see a few Rossi rifles around as well.

American rifles in Britain aren't actually that cheap in comparison to the European competition, and don't have a great reputation, especially Remington. I don't think this is deserved personally, but it's hard to shake.

Really, there is no niche the American brands can take that isn't already adequately filled. They get by in the US by taking the majority of the 'budget' end through being the cheapest rifles available and on the fact that American consumers want to buy domestic in a way Europeans (or at least Brits) don't.

American custom action and barrel makers do seem extremely popular in precision disciplines such as F class and Bench Rest, but I have very little knowledge of the specifics.

So that's a lot of words. TL;DR Europeans will only buy American rifles if they are A.) extremely good value for money or B.) The very best thing available to gain a competitive edge in serious competiton. For the average consumer, it's European brands all the way.

 

[rookhawk]

Americans love accuracy. Savage are very accurate as one example. They are also filthy sows. Mine have chatter marks from dull cutting tools all down the raceways and inside the receiver. Rugers are very accurate, but their investment castings are fugly and not dressed down in an appreciable way. The average consumer wants supreme accuracy and to do it at an affordable price the American makers take away fit, finish, and reliability as a reasonable trade-off to meet the middle of the consumer demand curve.

The Euro rifles are on the whole much better finished guns but also generally lower accuracy...they spent more on fit, finish, feed and appeal and less on accuracy to the obsession. Africa and Europe hunters don't delude themselves with the uncommon American use case of the 400 yard antelope shot being the norm. (it isn't the norm here, but we use a great western mule pack hunt as the basic assumption for what ALL our guns need to handle to a flaw)

 

[Alistair]

The Euro rifles are on the whole much better finished guns but also generally lower accuracy...

Not sure this is true at all. Any European manufacturer who won't gaurantee 1MOA out the box with factory ammo is going to really struggle and the American brands do no better than that. All European brands which I have personal experience with (Tikka, Sako, Sauer, Blaser), will do better than this with homeloads, but when you get to .5MOA or less, I reckon it comes down more to the skill of the handloader, the particular dimensions of that throat and chamber, the bedding on that specific rifle etc etc. Basically, all rifles I have seen on the market will shoot as well as or better than basically all shots, even off of a bench.

What I have found (in my admittedly limited experience) is that Americans want a 'value for money' rifle and are more willing to sacrifice fit, finish, trigger quality etc to achieve that. This is, IMO, a factor of the different usage and demographic in the respective nations. In America, the rifle is a tool, owned by everyone and used for a job. Not to say Americans don't love good wood etc, but the average american consumer is generally looking to spend much less on a gun and wants something serviceable, accurate and reliable, but not necessarily elegant. The European however, is approaching his rifle purchase from a long tradtion of snobbishness. He want a Rigby or as near as damn it in his Budget. Stalking etc in Europe has always had a slight whiff of gentrification, whilst American useage has not, and the equipment reflects this.

Just look at shotguns. The average American wants a pump or a semi-auto. It's practical, reliable, fit for purpose and easy to use. Also good for home defence. The Brit on the other hand wants a Purdey. Both want accuracy and fit. It's a cultural thing, and this extends to rifles as well.

 

[rookhawk]

This is what Savage marketing thinks the American wants, so judging the power of marketing and capitalism, I will take this as truth:

 

[markferrigno]

The other factor is that in Europe (at least Germany) hunting is much more "exclusive" than in America. Harder to get license and not as prevalent as here in the states. In some parts of Europe it is still view as a wealthy man's sport. In Germany hunters will drop 3k on a rifle and another 3k on scope partly because "that's what it costs" and partly because hunting in many cases is viewed as an investment and serious hobby and it goes on almost all year. No asinine 5-7 day "seasons" like here in the states.